An Attempt to Debunk Chemtrails For Good, page 32

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reply posted on 4-9-2008 @ 10:25 AM by Swingarm

Regular nuclear weapons tests were undertaken by the USA from 1945 to 1992, and by the Soviets from 1949 to 1990.

Does that mean they continue today?

No, it doesn't. All it means is that those things happened at the time.

It means there is likely more stealth stuff going on now than ever given where technology is presently (and available to the pee ons) Just imagine the technology at the finger tips of our shadow government.

I'm not saying that our governments don't stoop to some pretty low stuff - because I am fully aware that they do - but at the same time, as said earlier, we're talking about a supposed massive, ongoing, worldwide coordinated "spraying" program. Its not feasible.

OK , you concede the government is capable but this particular issue can't fall into this category because you won't accept it. I don't understand ? Whats so hard to accept ( aside from the frightening aspect ) about the method? Particulate will suspend in the atmosphere for a long time, making the spraying program cumulative. Once reached spraying dose not need to be done as aggressively as the initial spray to reach the desired saturation (if you will). In my eyes and I beleive many others feasability is not even an issue it's taken for granted that we have reached technologies that are easily capable of this sort of spraying. There are likley technologies at play that we will learn about years into the future.

reply posted on 4-9-2008 @ 10:38 AM by Swingarm

double post,

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Swingarm]

reply posted on 4-9-2008 @ 10:44 AM by jpm1602

Hey Oz. I respect your meterlogical perspective. But man, I woke up this morning about 0700ish and looked at the morning sky and it was really filled over in NE Ohio. You could tell, recently. Was was like donuts on a rope the rest the run of the mill. And of course a jetliner as I was watching in the same vicinity with no visible trail at all.
I hope for all our sakes, that you are correct. Just gives me a bad feeling. And I CAN remember summer days in the 60's without a cloud in the sky.

reply posted on 4-9-2008 @ 01:30 PM by neformore

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by Swingarm
Whats so hard to accept ( aside from the frightening aspect ) about the method?

Do we really have to go through all of that, again? I've already said, as have many others, what is hard to accept about the methods, but lets pick the most straightforward one.

No one, and I really do mean no one has the resources to undertake such a clandestine global operation as is claimed here. Its really that simple.

If you claim its civilian planes that are doing this, show me how its done, and explain to me how none of the airlines and their staff/operatives know about it.

It you claim its military planes doing this, look up the strength of air force tanker fleets, and then explain to me how they are doing it. The numbers simply do not add up when you weigh them against the claims made that such things are happening 24/7/365 all across the world.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

reply posted on 4-9-2008 @ 02:01 PM by Essan

All that needs to be done is to show that what appear to be normal contrails are not normal contrails.

Until that is done why would anyone think they are anything else?

Alleged chemtrails look and act identical to normal contrails ...... So those who say they are not normal contrails need to explain and show why.

Whether chemtrail spraying that is not visible from the ground is also taking place is another issue.

reply posted on 4-9-2008 @ 02:47 PM by Swingarm

reply to post by neformore

Do we really have to go through all of that, again? I've already said, as have many others, what is hard to accept about the methods, but lets pick the most straightforward one.

No one, and I really do mean no one has the resources to undertake such a clandestine global operation as is claimed here. Its really that simple.

Thats your opinion. As far as "going through all that again" we have been doing that now for some time. This thread contains enough information for any reasonable person to come away with some hard to answer questions about the motives of the powers that be. As far as debunking chemtrails go
you have along way to go. People are not all easily fooled. This thread proves that point. You can disregard the information and call a contrail a contrail. I and growing number of people in this world know better. I'm done with this thread.

Cheers!
Swingarm

reply posted on 4-9-2008 @ 02:56 PM by Essan

Originally posted by Swingarm
This thread proves that point. You can disregard the information and call a contrail a contrail. I and growing number of people in this world know better. I'm done with this thread.

This thread proves that there is no reason whatsoever to suppose a contrail is anything but a contrail.

The fact that no-one has shown that any contrails is anything but a contrail suggests they are barking up the wrong tree. If chemtrails are real I suggest you stop watching the illusionists ......

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Essan]

reply posted on 4-9-2008 @ 03:06 PM by weedwhacker

I've kept my powder dry, for a while. Just jumping in with an observation...

I live in the Washington, DC area. Went outside today, in the 92 degree F (33 degree C) heat....dry at the surface, not muggy. It was about 1400...started looking up at the sky. NEARLY cloudless, except for a few fracto-cumulous. I saw one....exactly ONE contrail, to the south....and it disappeared in under 10 seconds.

Now, as I've mentioned, I know quite a bit about the Airways over my area, and the amount of commercial air traffic that routinely flies overhead.

I welcome comments.....

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 08:05 AM by Zepherian

Neformore, your level of denial is frightening to be honest.

I'll take on your example of Nuclear tests: yes, they continue today, except they have gone underground and into cyberspace. Some of the most powerfull supercomputers in existence today are running nuclear blast simulations.

Just because we have 1000 times more nuclear firepower than is needed to destroy our civilization does not mean governments aren't sociopathic enough to keep going for more.

You should apply the same logic to the guardian article.

I have a very hard time accepting that you guys ignore all the evidence on simple denial, because if that's the case, sorry, but you really do need therapy.

Perhaps group therapy to keep the price down?

Ad hominem aside, please... before posting... reread this thread slowly, follow the links, realise what we are telling you here. This is serious. Break your conditioning.

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 01:09 PM by GenRadek

reply to post by Zepherian

So I guess the question neformore is asking you and you are not answering is this: how big and where is the actual proof? Where are the Air Force tankers that you are all claiming are doing this "spraying" globally? How many tankers do we have to begin with and how many are deployed on combat missions supporting our aircraft in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you understand the magnitude of such a claim? We would require thousands of aircraft to be able to do this. And yes, check our tanker fleet numbers. He is correct, it doesnt add up at all.

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 02:34 PM by weedwhacker

reply to post by weedwhacker

I'd like to respond to myself, last post I made.

Today, 5 September 2008 at about 1400 local EDT I went out for groceries, and lunch. While out and about, I looked at the sky.

There is a weather front approaching, likely the remnants of hurricane Gustav. I observed....cumulous, fracto-cumulous, fracto-stratus and stratus...and cirrus clouds. Even some possible nimbus clouds, trying to form. I also saw a few contrails, which dissipated very quickly. (I was shopping for about ten minutes...everything looked very different when I emerged from the store)

Also, there is a characteristic of cirrus clouds called 'horse's tails'...these are high level cirrus clouds that spread out, due to the winds, to resemble a horse's tail, or its mane.

Hmmmmmm.....does that seem to ring any bells???

Now, please remember....as a pilot I had to learn basic meteorology. So, I have a basic understanding of cloud types, what altitudes they form at, and so on. But I bow to the REAL meteorologists on this forum, who do it for a living!!!

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 06:08 PM by Zepherian

reply to post by GenRadek

Where are they? In military airbases... Being built by evergreen aviation... Being recommissioned from western US mothball sites... I'm sure there's a papertrail somewhere. And possibly in commercial fleets, although to be honest I have never thought this was the most probable scenario, I think it's dedicated airframes for the most part or totally.

I also think it's a relatively low, per area at least, number of airframes putting in a lot of hours. The crews, compartmentalized of course, are probably told it's a climate emergency or a variety of other lies.

I also think it ties into energy manipulation technology, along the lines of HAARP. Tesla based stuff not understood well by the mainstream.

There is plenty of possibility in the links helpfull people have posted on this thread, but anyone interested in this must persue the truth, it's not like this is going to be as easy as checking the sports section of the newspaper. For those not sideing with the negatives, and how could you?, there is plenty of info on this thread.

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 06:20 PM by weedwhacker

reply to post by Zepherian

Zeph, sorry dude, but you're really stretching there, to include the 'mothball' airplanes!!

Look...airplanes put into the desert.....are there, airframe intact....but all of the good stuff is taken out.

They are basically stripped of all usable parts....as need be. Of course, some parts just cannot be re-used.....because of time limits, or better technology.

I would invite all to examine many, many of the photos taken from orbital cameras, and THEN try to support your claim of 'chemtrails'.

Would it not be safe to assume that a 'view from above' is a far better perspective than the anonymous guy on the ground???

So, 'chemtrail' enthusiasts....please show us examples of HOW this alleged 'spraying' can be seen from orbit.

Thanks.

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 07:29 PM by Zepherian

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Zepherian

Zeph, sorry dude, but you're really stretching there, to include the 'mothball' airplanes!!

Look...airplanes put into the desert.....are there, airframe intact....but all of the good stuff is taken out.

They are basically stripped of all usable parts....as need be. Of course, some parts just cannot be re-used.....because of time limits, or better technology.

I would invite all to examine many, many of the photos taken from orbital cameras, and THEN try to support your claim of 'chemtrails'.

Would it not be safe to assume that a 'view from above' is a far better perspective than the anonymous guy on the ground???

So, 'chemtrail' enthusiasts....please show us examples of HOW this alleged 'spraying' can be seen from orbit.

Thanks.

Another totally irrelevant post, but hey, I've got 3 minutes, so I'll have at it:

1) A lot of mothballed aircraft are in storage, not decommissioned, and can be brought back into service with a relatively quick refurbishment process. You, as a claimed pilot, should know this. Not all sites are aircraft cemeteries, some also do storage. There are probably hundreds of airworthy airframes just waiting for a job.

2) Satellite imagery? Really? You expect to prove anything from that? When it's from a select few sources, probably under control by the same elitist octopus that controls most of everything else? I expect that most images that would prove chemtrails don't hit mainstream, so no, I don't need to go there, the people on the ground are closer and probably more trustworthy. I will remind you, however, that you have been linked to satellite images of supposed weather manipulation on this thread, iirc.

And why do you even ask for more sources, after the deluge already in this thread?

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 08:16 PM by weedwhacker

reply to post by Zepherian

Zeph...I am sorry, but I am correct. Airplanes 'mothballed' in the desert are not likely to fly again. Just look at the price of fuel!

As to your second point...well, ATS doesn't always provide a quick show, down, on every thread.

So , I will post, ant then edit...

EDIT.....I'd like anyone to show a picture, of space imagery, to prove the existance of 'chemtrails'.

I'm serious here. WHY is there no possible picture that even comes close to the concept of 'chemtrails' being spread out upon the planet, it none of them show up from "up above"???

To put it simply: If seen from above, you could see all....and exactly what is seen?

[edit on 9/5/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 08:47 PM by Zepherian

reply to post by weedwhacker

Now you're not even making any sense. What has the price of fuel got to do with the availability of airframes for covert activities? Taxpayers don't get asked if something is too expensive... and if it happens to be and the elites still want to do it, they make more money, it's only a fiat currency.

Again, you've been linked to satellite imagery already, and asking for a source you know full well is neither reliable nor easily found is dishonest of you, especially in the light of all the material you've been linked already and are ignoring.

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 09:06 PM by weedwhacker

reply to post by Zepherian

I am very sorry you feel that way.

Seems that it is quite clear that DEAD airframes are unlikely to be resurrected, out of their desert storage, without notice!!!

But, thanks for your post.

EDIT for spelling...

[edit on 9/5/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 09:11 PM by weedwhacker

reply to post by Zepherian

Zeph.....please re-read your last sentence, of you last post. "I" have been linked????

Man...."I" haven't even contributed on this thread for days....

Satellites? I brought that up, please show us a visual of a picture 'from above' that supports a claim of "chemtrails"....just one, please!!

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 09:22 PM by Zepherian

This thread, page 4:

Originally posted by mantic

Originally posted by mantic

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by Clearskies

Yes it is normal. All that is happening is that the air traffic in the USA is extremely heavy, so naturally you will have planes that criss cross each others paths and planes that sit in holding patterns at high altitude, waiting for their time to descend. I posted a link in the original post that shows the density of air travel in one hour, its a phenomenal amount

Could it be reasonable to assume that some of this traffic density is being created by these chem planes?

Yes it is very reasonable. However, if indeed the sky "loosing it's blueness" due to increased traffic, taking "chemtrails" out of the equation. Then would it be safe to assume that we are in deeper doo doo? What is the outcome, what is being done to reverse such trend?

Here are some interesting pictures of the phenomena from the site weatherwars. The proprietor has some interesting theory.

The arrowed location is at the intersection of three contrail lines. It just happens to be the point at which one of the contrails rolls over in an area of strong lateral shear artificially introduced into the sky. We would have never known about it without the chemtrails. With a grid like this you can tell they are hunting scalar activity.

A nice true color image from NASA looking at the back edge of a storm that is just clearing the western Great Lakes states. This is a very dry atmospheric environment in that the passing storm has cleared the area of available moisture for clouds formation plus the inherent stabilization, post storm, leads to very clear skies. So we have many thick contrails that are lasting in an environment that shouldn’t support their visible existence. Hence we have evidence of the contrail markers versus natural contrails. Abundant rippling over Michigan tells us that we have EM energies stimulating the atmosphere and thus the weather makers need to fly the contrails to measure this action and decide whether to employ counter measures as needed. A couple of arrows have been added to point out the thick spreading contrails laid down just along the back edge of this storm, and the interesting dissipation over central Lake Superior marked earlier by the fading three north/south contrails.

In need of more data… a second plane is flown in the vicinity to see if the scalar/gravatonic energy remains present to deform the second contrail.

I just know that something is going on, and I do not believe it is due to increased passenger and freight air traffic

[edit on 7-8-2008 by mantic]

[edit on 7-8-2008 by mantic]

Please stop wasting our time here, if you can't follow the thread don't, but do stop being a noisy negativist, as Stanton Friedman calls the UFO debunkers.

You're attempting to paint this thread as less than it is, and it's transparent.

reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 11:51 PM by weedwhacker

reply to post by Zepherian

Zeph, we have all seen those pics, even back on page 4....and they were expained page after page after page.

I'll start with Picture #1. WHAT is it supposed to prove? The fact that an airplane can turn, and do, perhaps, a 360, as required by the controller. See, when a controller gets too many airplanes in his/her airspace, he/she will attempt to 'control' the flights (on RADAR) to 'meter' them into the next sector.

You see, a controller is 'handling' a few flights, and wishing to 'hand them off' to another sector....they talk, on the radio to the airplane, but al the while they are also on the "LandLine" (aka telephone) to the other controller, to establish a 'hand-off'.

Look....this is how ATC is working now, has worked before (even with RADAR) and will likely continue to work in the future.

The controllers have an area of responsiblity....and they CANNOT let an airplane into another's area unless they have verbally communicated with that person, and the new person accepts the NEW responsibility for that airplane!

SO....you see airplanes in holding patterns....or maybe not a full holding pattern, but just told to do a '360'....it takes time, while the crontrollers talk to each other.

Look....a 'Standard Rate' 360 degree turn takes about four minutes. A jetliner, at cruise speed, and using a maximum of 30 degrees of bank, will take MORE than 4 minutes to complete a 360.

SOME standardized Holding Patterns, as printed on our charts, specify a MAXIMUM airspeed, say...210K....BECAUSE at higher airspeeds an aiplane in the pattern might exceed the parameters of the holding space, and infringe on other airspace. Depending on the weight, some airplanes may not be able to comply to, say....210K...without deploying slats/flaps. Now, we have extra drag, and resultant fuel burn to consider. And the decision to divert to the Alternate Airport....becomes more prominent.

However, I doubt the audience is going to care about what airline pilots think about....most just want their favorite bev.

Point is, after a l;ong-winded explanation....the first photo is perfectly understandble, when you realize that ATC can cause a jetliner to make a 360.

Other pictures?? Well, not sure where you live, but I happen to know that jets fly North/South and East/West....and all angles in between.