An Attempt to Debunk Chemtrails For Good

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posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by Zepherian
We've been linked to news reports about governments admitting to it...


Well that all depends on your answer to my earlier question about what you're saying chemtrails are.

And anyway, some such news reports are known to be deliberately mistranslated hoaxes (like the German admission that anti radar chaff affected a meteorological radar) whilst others refers to questions asked in parliament and which therefore constitute evidence only that someone else believes in chemtrails.

Besides which, who ever trusts what a govt says? It's when they pointedly deny it that we start getting suspicious




posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by TruthTellist

This thread will allow members to distinguish between members who contribute and show a genuine effort to convey the truth and those who obfusticate, sidetrack and contribute nothing beneficial - and whose efforts oft betray a greater agenda and a coordinated effort.


I couldn't agree more


Of course, if you still have me on ignore you won't know that



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 09:05 AM
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The first step to Intellectual Honesty is accepting that there are other sides to an issue that you may not agree with or believe.

ATS supports all side of an issue, and that's a beautiful thing.

Semper



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
The first step to Intellectual Honesty is accepting that there are other sides to an issue that you may not agree with or believe.

ATS supports all side of an issue, and that's a beautiful thing.

Semper


Well said, I agree with that. Thats the whole reason I start threads against chemtrails....there a plenty for them, so did this for newer members to see the other side

Without different opinions this place would be just full of conspiracy theorists (paranoid ones in some cases) or skeptics



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by Zepherian
 


From your post:



Chemtrails existing or not should not be a debate, the debate should move on to the how and why.


So there exists trail making in the case of using chemicals.

Not just sky writing. Or crop dusting.

Just out and out flooding the sky with stuff.
Zooming in climbs putting out obvious trail making chemicals.
Some photos do indicate this.
A high flier making a fake trail when there should be one.
That is a step into the conspiracy world.


Now a how and a why thread?
How is by the apparatus on the sprayer planes.

The Why can only bring you into a conspiracy world of some making.
There is too much inertia to not step into that type of world.
People can find a conspiracy they are expert in and never ride into
another one.
Choose the conspiracy you like best.
Poisoning people is the most obvious among the Chemtrail crowd.

Or else deny conspiracies all the way and take the contrail way out.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 01:00 PM
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Here is something that may be a cloud attempt:

U.F.O. BURNING? AMAZING FOOTAGE! YOU DECIDE.
www.youtube.com...
Severe malfunction.
Chemical cloud cover spray mechanism is electrostatic energized.
Causing the apparent fires. This has been seen before.
Faster than the 15 min recovery time for crashed UFOs, a fire works
rocket and parachute can go up.
Multiple high voltage vectors, beams, means trouble.


See similar daytime event:
AMAZING U.F.O. WITNESSED BY DISCOVERY CHANNEL CREW!
www.youtube.com...
Chemical spray cloud cover with pop out static balls.



[edit on 9/1/2008 by TeslaandLyne]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 11:37 PM
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even though its not ness. chem trails this link at least proves that the Germans are manipulating the weather....regardless its still a shame.


In Russia, sometimes it rains cement



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by utmostbastard
 


A big help is to pay very close attention to the weather reports and see if there is a low pressure system heading your way, or a cold front, or even a warm front that would account for the skies you are seeing. Usually that is all it is. If the weather folks were following on Doppler radar a line of showers falling from non cumulus clouds, that would explain the gray skies. Sometimes a fast moving weather front can change the sky within minutes.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by Zepherian

You, weedwhacker and Oz need to get off the meteorology and aviation high horses and focus your atention on that' reality that is atmospheric spraying. And ask the questions "how much spraying?" "why?" "with what elements?" "how much does this cost?" "who is doing this?" "why all the secrecy?".



And you need to actually learn something about meteorology so you can understand why contrails are created and persist.

I mean, most of you that think they are chemtrails couldnt even name a cloud type, let alone know what heights they occur at. And as of yet, the Op has not been debunked (only one attempt to debunked)....neither has the multiple directions of winds in the atmosphere. Like i have said before, debunk the meteorology and maybe we will investigate further. And before you start posting links from carnicom, rense etc....try investigating a neutral website, like one that shows how to forecast contrails....not one discussing the contrail/chemtrail thing



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 03:21 AM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


"And you need to actually learn something about meteorology so you can understand why contrails are created and persist. "


Wow. You are a meteorologist! .... but I have yet to see proof of this.

You have yet to prove that you are who you say you are.

Zeph relies on the quality of his posts to convey his message. He doesn't issue proclaimations and doesn't demand that he be accorded a position of authority - unlike some people. Zeph has also provided reliable data and truelight already proved the existence of the chemtrail phenomenon and has proved your OP to be false... lies, if you will.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLight

Here is the list so far of supporting links provided by Chemtrail Theorists to this discussion PART1



(For the benefit of All Mankind)

www.chycho.com... - Germany admits chemtrail operations

www.rense.com... - Chemtrails coming out the closet

www.evergreenaviation.com... - Evergreen aviation spray planes

home.iae.nl... - Chemical testing admitted

thomas.loc.gov...:H.R.2977.IH: - Kucinich bill HR.2977

globalresearch.ca... - Weather modification

weatherwars.info... - weatherwars

www.redding.com... - news article

www.bbsradio.com... - radio article

www.holmestead.ca... - chem link

members.aol.com... - chem link 2

educate-yourself.org... - educate yourself chemlink 3

www.holmestead.ca... - evergreen cia front

www.carnicom.com... - carnicom 1

www.abovetopsecret.com... - ats thread

www.holmestead.ca... - more cia link

www.carnicom.com... - carnicom 2

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com... - forbidden knowledge chemtrails link

www.alienzoo.com... - alien zoo link

home.iae.nl... - chemical testing admission

www.sourcewatch.org... - cia links

www.lewrockwell.com... - cia tie in 2

www.abovetopsecret.com... - another ats thread

www.bariumblues.com... - barium blues

www.abovetopsecret.com... - bioweapons tested on citizens

www.carnicom.com... - aircraft mechanics claim

www.apfn.org... - biological experiments on citizens

foia.state.gov... - foia link

www.lib.berkeley.edu... - declassified documents

www.wramc.army.mil... - walter reed army docs

www.wramc.army.mil... -

creeping nematodes

www.chemtrailcentral.com... - Chemtrail central

weatherwars.info... - weather wars

www.youtube.com... - scott stevens youtube vid

illuminatimatrix.wordpress.com... - alt chemtrail view

www.rense.com... - weather modification rense

www.chycho.com... - german army admits spraying

news.bbc.co.uk... - usa admits chem weapons testing

www.timesonline.co.uk... - times online article

globalresearch.ca... - canadian site

www.abovetopsecret.com... - ATS thread

www.infowars.com... - info wars link

en.wikipedia.org... - wiki chemtrails

www.youtube.com... youtube vid , toxic sky

www.metacafe.com... toxic sky part 2

video.google.com... google video, clouds of death

www.bariumblues.com... haarp patent

www.montalk.net... montalk cloudbusting info

www.youtube.com... youtube search cloudbusting

www.freepatentsonline.com... patents list

www.patentstorm.us... patents list 2

video.google.com...# - google video wilhelm reich

www.geocities.co.jp... torsion fields

chem11.proboards2.com... - chemtrails discussion

www.exopolitics.org.uk... - chemtrails and orbs

www.bariumblues.com... orbs photo'd

www.youtube.com... youtube vid

www.rense.com... more rense research

www.novavax.com... novax site

www.montalk.net... - chemtrails and sars

www.guardian.co.uk... - newspaper story

www.youtube.com... youtube vid

www.proliberty.com... - proliberty site

www.myhero.com... - dr rosalie bertell biography

www.youtube.com... dr rosalie bertell states chemtrails real

www.youtube.com... dr rosalie bertell on haarp

www.whale.to... chemtrails site

divinecosmos.com... david wilcock site

www.divinecosmos.com... david wilcock alt link

www.youtube.com... youtube cloudbuster search

www.youtube.com... youtube cloudbuster search 2

www.uow.edu.au... sci fraud

seattlepi.nwsource.com... sci article 1

www.nature.com... sci article 2

physicsandphysicists.blogspot.com... sci article 3

(Cont...)



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLight
reply to post by TrueLight
 


Here is the list so far of supporting links provided by Chemtrail Theorists to this discussion PART2



www.geocities.co.jp... - geocities site

montalk.net... - timeline dynamics

enterprisemission.com... nato aerosol defence

members.tripod.com... aerosol defence 2

enterprisemission.com... aerosol defence 3

montalk.net... HAARP earthquakes hurricanes

www.bariumblues.com... - reason for chemtrails

www.willthomas.net... - concern over chemtrails




Books Etc

Amazon books on chemtrails

Dr. Len Horowitz, "Death in the Air: Globalism, Terrorism and Toxic Warfare".

A.K. Johnston, PhD. "UFO tactics: Weather Shield to Chemtrails".

K. Ya. Kondratyev, : "Climatic Effects of Aerosols and Clouds".

William Thomas, "Chemtrails Confirmed".

Tim Swartz and Timothy Beckley, "The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla: HAARP-Chemtrails and Secret of Alternative 4".

Ed Regis, "The Biology of Doom: America's Secret Germ Warfare Project".

J.D. Aber and K.J. Nadelhoffer, "Nitrogen Saturation in Northern Forest Ecosystems." Bioscience, 39 (1989) pages

378-386

American Geophysical Union, "Jet contrails to be significant climate factor by 2050," AGU press release no. 99-19,

6/21/99

R.B. Ames and W.C. Malm, "Estimating the Contribution of the Mohave Coal-fired Power Plant Emissions to Atmospheric

Extinction at Grand Canyon National Park." In Visual Air Quality" Aerosols and Global Radiation Balance, Air and

Waste Management Association, Pittsburgh, Pa., 683-697, 1997.

Marcus Dalton, "Chemtrails Are Over Las Vegas." Las Vegas Tribune, vol. 7 Issue 3, 8/19/05

S.L. Baughcum, "Subsonic aircraft emission inventories, In:Atmospheric Effects of Aviation:First Report of the

Subsonic Assessment Project." NASA RP-1385, pp. 15-29, 1996

Bill Gallagher, "Chemical Aurora Keyhole Surveillance." Arizona Indymedia, May 2004

Laura Kelly, "Mysterious powder shrouds area." The Alpenhorn News, Feb. 2006

D.M. Hunten, "Residence Times of Aerosols and Gases in the Stratosphere." Geophysical Research Letters 2(1): 26-27,

1975

A.C. Mueller, "The Effects of Particulates from Solid Rocket Motors Fired in Space." Advances in Space Research 5

(2): 77-86, 1985.

U. Schumann, "In Situ Observations of Particles in Jet Aircraft Exhausts and Contrails for Different Sulfur-

Containing Fuels." Journal of Geographical Research, Vol. 101, Issue D3, 1996.

weather mod patents


6569393-5/27/03-Method and Device for Cleaning the Atmosphere.
6520425-2/18/03-Proces and Apparatus for the Production of Nanofibers.
6412416-7/2/02-Propellant-Based Aerosol Generation Devices and Method.
6315213-11/13/01-Method of Modifying Weather.
6263744-7/24/01-Automated Mobility-Classified-Aerosol Detector.
6056203-5/2/00-Method and Apparatus for Modifying Supercooled Clouds.
6030506-2/29/00-Preparation of Independently Generated Highly Reactive Chemical Species.
5984239-11/16/99-Weather Modification by Artificial Satellite.
5762298-6/9/98-Use of Artificial Satellites in Earth Orbits Adaptively to Modify the Effect that Solar Radiation

Would Otherwise Have on Earth's Weather.
5628455-5/13/97-Method and Apparatus for Modification of Supercooled Fog.
5286979-2/15/94-Process for Absorbing Ultraviolet Radiation Using Dispersed Melanin.
5104069-4/114/92-Apparatus and Method for Ejecting Matter from an Aircraft.
5038664-8/13/94-Method for Producing a Shell of Relativisitic Particles at an Altitude Above the Earth's Surface.
4999637-3/12/91-Creation of Artificial Ionization Clouds Above the Earth.
4873928-10/17/89-Nuclear-Sized Explosions without Radiation.
4686605-8/11/87-Method and Apparatus for Altering a Region in the Earth's Atmosphere, Ionosphere, and/or

Magnetosphere.
5218374-6/8/93-Power Beaming System with Printer Circuit Radiating Elements Having Resonating Cavities.


Spraying Heavy Metals To Stop Global Warming



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 03:37 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.




Originally posted by Zepherian
Give me a break. We've been linked to news reports about governments admitting to it...


NO. You haven't. You've been linked to someones interpretation of an exercise involving military deployment of chaff, and previously classified weapons testing documentation, none of which prove that there is a on-going, persistent worldwide programme of spraying on the populace. You've also been been linked to a whole load of peoples opinions, but opinions aren't verifiable, actual proof of anything, they are only opinions.

Like Essan said above, no one here disputes that weapons have been tested. No one disputes that things such as Agent Orange have been used at low level. No one disputes that crop dusting takes place. No one disputes that weather modification happens. No one disputes that air forces uses chaff.

What is disputed is that there is this persistent on-going world wide programme. What is disputed is people who see lines in the sky and say "theres no other explanation, they're spraying on us" when there ARE other explanations. What is disputed are those peope who say "the plane flew above me at 25,000ft and immediately I felt/smelled/experienced". What is disputed are those people who ignore the science of meteorology, flight sciences and atmospheric sciences and dismiss them out of hand.

Can you see the differences there?



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


[edit on 4/0908/08 by neformore]



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 07:15 AM
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www.youtube.com...

Video to be taken into account regarding this thread. Karsten Brandt is also a meteorologist, and not of the anonymous internet variety.

www.willthomasonline.net...

Translation. I won't vouch for it's accuracy, but it should be.

RTL is one of Germany's major broadcasters.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Guardian link, an old one, where the UK government admits spraying.

The above was a 10 min google search. You guys have no excuse for saying this is not real, because there are literally hundreds of thousands of links pointing to source.

Anyone who want's to prove chemtrails, or biotrails even, can. Anyone who wan'ts to prove the negative, so to speak, can't, And not just for philosophical reasons, it flies in the face of reality.

You, neformore, need to get up to speed on this issue. Or go outside and open your eyes. What will it take, a family members death?



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by Zepherian
www.youtube.com...

Video to be taken into account regarding this thread. Karsten Brandt is also a meteorologist, and not of the anonymous internet variety.

www.willthomasonline.net...

Translation. I won't vouch for it's accuracy, but it should be.

RTL is one of Germany's major broadcasters.



For the umpteenth time, this story is about anti radar chaff used by military aircraft whilst on exercise causing anomalous readings on weather radar.




www.guardian.co.uk...

Guardian link, an old one, where the UK government admits spraying.


Yes. So?

And I can find you thousands of examples of crop spraying. And as for Vietnam and all that agent orange .....

None of this is anything to do with the issue of whether what look and act like contrails are actually chemtrails.

You can produce as many non sequiturs as you like, they only go to weaken your argument but showing that you actually have no real evidence at all.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 08:20 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by Zepherian
You, neformore, need to get up to speed on this issue. Or go outside and open your eyes. What will it take, a family members death?


I think you need to step back a little, do some deep breathing, use less drama and maybe use the search facility on the board then maybe you will understand that I don't need to "get up to speed" on this issue at all, because I've been looking at this, and similar conspiracy issues for over 20 years.

What you have linked first shows radar chaff being deployed.

The second link shows known cases where trials of certain substances were carried out between 1940 and 1979. Not sustained programmes.

Neither of them show any evidence whatsoever of a sustained, organised, ongoing, worldwide programme of anything.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


That's just your biased and somewhat irational interpretation imho. But there's no point in mudslinging here. We both have access to the same information pools and we can both interpret it according to whatever goes on between our ears.

I'm just pointing out that I don't get how you guys come to the conclusions that you do, regardless of the amount of time you guys have been doing it.

I'll leave it up to the rationality of the bystanders.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 09:17 AM
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The second link shows known cases where trials of certain substances were carried out between 1940 and 1979. Not sustained programmes.


40 years of experimentation should be rejected as anything meaningful ? It's interesting that in the face of so much data there are those who continue and will continue to reject the data. To accept it would have a real impact in other areas of their lives possibly even making it difficult for them to carry on with their present reality. Continue grasping to your fleeting reality, this truth is converging on us all.

Just look at what is going on with Codex Alimentarius , same monster different head.

www.exorthodoxforchrist.com...

www.healthfreedomusa.org...


I will take no pleasure in "I told you so" type statements. There needs to be a real effort to educate people. Codex is not dealt with by the mainstream media in any meaningful factual way. Ask someone on the street about codex, you will receive a blank stare. What dose that tell you. Chemtrails are not a story that will be covered the big mainstream media outlets. The two together will work wonders for the elite agenda.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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www.abovetopsecret.com...' Checkout this thread also. This medical issue is suspected to be linked to chemtrails.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by Swingarm
40 years of experimentation should be rejected as anything meaningful ?


Regular nuclear weapons tests were undertaken by the USA from 1945 to 1992, and by the Soviets from 1949 to 1990.

Does that mean they continue today?

No, it doesn't. All it means is that those things happened at the time.

I'm not saying that our governments don't stoop to some pretty low stuff - because I am fully aware that they do - but at the same time, as said earlier, we're talking about a supposed massive, ongoing, worldwide coordinated "spraying" programme. Its not feasible.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.





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