An Attempt to Debunk Chemtrails For Good

reply to post by Swingarm


SA!! I really tried to walk away from this thread....but, really?

"Many pilots" agree to 'chemtrails'?? Please, I would like to see your sources there.

Thank you for for pointing out that I have some cred.....and, I must re-state, it is all Civilian cred....

Essan, on the otherhand, whom I've never met, also has cred....as a meteorologist.

Essan (Andy) even went so far as to prove his creds.....I don't know how else to prove my creds, except by my posts.....expecting that others in my field will read, and understand....and thusly, know that I know what I'm talking about.

Weedwacker

SA!! I really tried to walk away from this thread

who are you trying to kid !!! as for the rest I find your delivery a tad on the dramatic side. Essan didn't go as far as anything that site has been in his sig all along.
As far as the pilots, it's been documented in this thread, you don't pay attention and are not likely interested

reply to post by Swingarm


SA.....if you're referring to 'Pilots for 9/11 Truth'.....I've been to their website.

Was not yet impressed.....but I will continue to investigate....with a critical eye.

EDIT...seriously, if you can't pop into your local Home Depot, and not see me hanging on the wall, then you have no sense of humor.

Of course, I'm serious about most of what I write.....but I like to think there's a sense of humor, always.....myself, included in the joke. Not that what I say is a joke, but it doesn't have to mean that everything I say is the cold hard fact....it's only what I see, and that is, THUS, my opinon.

[edit on 8/30/0808 by weedwhacker]

SECOND EDIT.....and if the intent of this thread is to 'censor' dissent, then I guess I misunderstand the point of ATS.

[edit on 8/30/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


The stated intent of ATS is to deny ignorance, not promote it as seems to be the agenda of some.

I think it's time the moderators stepped in and took a position here, as this thread is cycling. Either ATS recognises that chemtrails, understood in a broad sense as any unpublicized and more or less covert atmospheric spraying, is an accepted reality or we will always have people muddying the waters and trying to say black is white and white is black.

So how about it ATS? Deny Ignorance? Chemtrails existing or not should not be a debate, the debate should move on to the how and why.

As usual, bickering and OT posts flood the thread to bury the relevant information. This appears to be a cyclical pattern and why it is allowed to continue I do not know.

Maybe U2U or some form of OT/Thread polluting sub-forum could be created/enforced. Like a steel cage area for this nonsense OT bickering to be taking to. ?

Additionally I have noticed an intriguing change in the aerial obscuration program.

When applicable, I notice what appears to be strategically placed trails to utilize and manipulate existing natural cloud cover. This trails appear to be injected in or near opposite sides of the cloud cover. The interesting part of this is the effects it has on the clouds. It would appear the aerosols have negative and positive polar properties. Or possibly these trails are magnetic in itself allowing some form of "steering" remotely. Although that would be bordering on tedious and excessive on the work side. But as with anything regarding this program I would not be surprised.

These trails seems to shift and condense cloud cover to a set point (the daytime sun).

One other observation appears to be reverse cloud seeding. Taking and drying storm clouds and expanding the cloud concentration to thin out to cover more surface area.

Regardless after 4 days of blue sky a 2 day assault has achieved atmospheric saturation in my area. Daily rain stop and the sky is back to the streaky chalk like substance.

Additionally on the few spray planes I checked into, none of them were reflected on FlightAware as usual.


UB

reply to post by weedwhacker


Replying to....my apologies, this post is in the wrong thread...and it's too late to edit/delete it.

Not my intention to steer OT...not here.

Utmost, just to respond....glad to know you check FlightAware...shows that whatever is going on (if anything is) does not come from commercial jets.

Originally posted by utmostbastard
As usual, bickering and OT posts flood the thread to bury the relevant information. This appears to be a cyclical pattern and why it is allowed to continue I do not know.

Agree! And that, IMO, is the biggest conspiracy mistery at the moment in ATS, after no matter what, all and everithing, was considered a hoax or debunked...sad in fact!

[edit on 30/8/08 by Umbra Sideralis]

reply to post by Zepherian


Unfortunately most of the circular arguing revolves around whether normal contrails are evidence of chemtrails or not. On the one hand there's the long understood, extensively studied, very robust, meteorological explanation which says they are all contrails, on the other the suggestion that some or all recent contrails are in fact chemtrails - but without (as yet) any actual, serious, explanation, far less concrete evidence, as to why they cannot be normal contrails.

If the debate is to continue with any meaning then those believing that what they see in the sky are chemtrails need to produce a explanation as to why they cannot be - as meteorologist have been claiming for nearly 100 years - just normal contrails. Ideally they need to provide evidence of where and when such 'contrails' appeared under conditions under which - according to the meteorological explanation - contrails should not or could not form.

reply to post by Essan


There are contrails and chemtrails. Contrails are the norm, chemtrails the exception. We all know that. However, it's not an irrelevant exception and there is enough linked and proven for you to graciously acknowledge that there is a lot of spraying going on out there.

You, weedwhacker and Oz need to get off the meteorology and aviation high horses and focus your atention on that' reality that is atmospheric spraying. And ask the questions "how much spraying?" "why?" "with what elements?" "how much does this cost?" "who is doing this?" "why all the secrecy?".

This is the valid debate. These are the questions that need answered. Not the denial that you're collectively engaged in.

Yes, I get that contrails are not chemtrails. I know it. But there are chemtrails out there, regardless. We are being sprayed, you've been proved that in this thread beyond reasonable doubt. Sure, only a tiny minority of airframes in the sky are doing this. But we still don't know how many planes that is. Maybe it's only .1% of all aircraft. But that could still be enough to poison your ecosystem.

And here is the big question: Do you trust whoever is doing this to be acting in your best interest?

I, for one, do not.

[edit on 31-8-2008 by Zepherian]

reply to post by Zepherian


Yah...Zeph....all good goints EXCEPT....did you care to look at the OP???

Now, think about it....read the title...and then wonder WHO distracted this thread???

Maybe 'debunk' is a poor choice of terms...."skeptic" is better.

It applies, that way, to both 'sides' of the discussion.

A 'skeptic' of the assertion, or allegation of a chemtrail....and the other skeptic, who wishes to assert the existence of chemtrails.

So, now wipe the slate clean, and start over.....or begin a new thread. Frankly, I'd like to see Oz get the points....but that's just my opinion (among others)

Chemtrail Investagations

reply to post by weedwhacker


No, ad hoc debunking is really what the 3 of you have done here. You cannot just ignore the evidence presented and continue on your merry path and not be expected to be called out for it.

Debate honestly here and you have no choice but to accept chemtrails as a real phenomenon, for one because, as is buried somewhere in this thread under all your false rebuttals, they are admitted.

You guys, whether you realise it or not, are just disinformants. I'm not saying anyone is paying you for it, but you're just ignoring evidence in this thread, soapboxing and trying to overwhelm people with your credentials, all flying in the face of truth.

I normally don't debate the people wheedwhacker, but what has happened in this thread is such a blatant disregard of truth that I have to call you guys out on it.

There is not enough flouride in the world for you guys to get away with this amount of missinformation

And again, for the ATS staff, I think this would be about time you guys actually took a stand on an issue, because as a site that interviews high profile guests, we need at least to have you guys defend basic knowledge from being perverted. Chemtrails exist, it's a done deal. The debate should be, imo, along the lines I proposed in my previous post, not this silly "I have researched and they're not real, be amazed at my credentials" disinfo which is clearly against what has been publicly released and clearly against what is being widespread reported.

Or is ATS really a CIA front?

reply to post by Zepherian


Zeph.....we have have had polite debates, so far.....but your last post seems to cross a line.

In the first place, the POINT of this thread was to "debunk chemtrails for good".

This is another's OP.....and I'm guessing he's asleep right now.

Regardless....what I tried to point out.....and by no means am I the true authority on this, because I have made so many mistakes, I've lost count!!

Not sure what page we're on, anymore either....but, despite the silliness of the '25 debunkers' list, or whatever THAT was.....I can break it down, clearly....

(A).....Commercial jets DO NOT 'spray' anything

(B)....Military jets 'may spray'.....but we have no idea

(C)....I have nothing here, but we're used to seeing things in 'threes'....

Originally posted by Zepherian

Yes, I get that contrails are not chemtrails. I know it. But there are chemtrails out there, regardless. We are being sprayed, you've been proved that in this thread beyond reasonable doubt. Sure, only a tiny minority of airframes in the sky are doing this. But we still don't know how many planes that is. Maybe it's only .1% of all aircraft. But that could still be enough to poison your ecosystem.

And here is the big question: Do you trust whoever is doing this to be acting in your best interest?

We're still at cross purposes here.

Are you talking about the white lines that appear in the sky behind aircraft? If so there is not one shred of evidence that these are 'chemtrails'.

If you are talking about the deployment of anti radar chaff or weather modification then we have all known for decades that such activities take place, but they are not apparent when from the ground. There may well howver be legitimate reasons to be concerned about such activities.

If you are talking about low level spraying - whether it be in the form of agent organge or other chemical or biological warfare experiments then again we know it has happened oin the past and concieveably still takes place in secret.

If you're talking about the proposal to spray sulphur particles into the atmosphere to counter global warming then please show some evidence that such massive operation has started - despite none of the scientists involved in such research being aware. And, if you think such activity may be visible from the ground please also explain how and why.

If you're talking about something else, please explain what you thing it is and how we may determine whether or not it is taking place.

As I said many pages back, the problem with chemtrails is that it's not a proper theory. There is no method for falsification. There is not even any agreement on what chemtrails are, what they look like (if at all) who is spraying them or why.

Present a theory and then we can test it

Or, since an alternative theory for what people claim to be chemtrails exists, show that theory to be wrong.

Up to you.


Edit: as WW rightly says, the point of this thread was to 'debunk' chemtrails - by which the OP meant the 'lines' in the sky that many claim are evidence of chemtrail spraying. These 'lines' have been fully explained and no serious attempt* has been made to falsify the theory explaining them. Given the length of the thread, I'd say that means they'd been debunked


* simply saying that it isn't true is not a serious attempt to falsify a scientific explanation.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by Essan]

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

And again, for the ATS staff, I think this would be about time you guys actually took a stand on an issue, because as a site that interviews high profile guests, we need at least to have you guys defend basic knowledge from being perverted. Chemtrails exist, it's a done deal. The debate should be, imo, along the lines I proposed in my previous post, not this silly "I have researched and they're not real, be amazed at my credentials" disinfo which is clearly against what has been publicly released and clearly against what is being widespread reported.

Or is ATS really a CIA front?

I think what is most important is for all of us to realize, fully, that ATS is a member driven site and except for the Terms and Conditions the Adimn and Mods do not in any manner control the flow and content of members submission.

Also remember that what any of you may think is a forgone conclusion to an issue, may not be what another member thinks. "One man's proof, is another man's theory."

Having read this entire thread and followed it's progression, I for one have seen no obsolutes in regards to either side of the issue.

This site is about, for and revolves around all of you.. ALL OF YOU...

Alternative ideas and radical thoughts are not only accepted here, they are welcomed with open arms. I for one have always found it best to post facts and sources material to back up my side of an issue, and I have also discovered that simply stating something is a fact, does not make it so.

Now on with the fun

Semper

[edit on 9/1/2008 by semperfortis]

reply to post by semperfortis


semper...hear hear!!

That speaks to the heart of this issue. I can only bring, with my pathetic typing skills, an attempt to convey what I know.

Others, far more computer-savvy, can post links...and sometimes, links that lead nowhere....or are worthless....and waste the reader's time.


I have brought as much as I can convey, to this discussion. I don't need 'links'....I have experience.

Essan....and Oz (the OP) have also brought their experience....thjis is my point.

I do not think that 'quote mining' does anyone any good....if they wish to learn, they can dern well go out and do it for themselves!

This needless bickering, back and forth, on any thread is pointless!!

I keep needing to be reminded, from time to time, just HOW pointless it is....and every time, I am humbled by the quality, and the temperance, of ATS Staff.

(AND I am NOT sucking up!!)

reply to post by semperfortis


Give me a break. We've been linked to news reports about governments admitting to it...

This is not about member submissions, it's about the common sense ability to diferentiate truth from noise.

But ok, ATS stays on the fence. Noted.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Like you said, you've maid so many mystakes I don't think anyone is counting anymore. Evergreen aviation is a commercial company. They are selling the damn things...

Every time you try and charectarize the phenomenon you always try and minimize it and get it totally wrong.

reply to post by Zepherian


Every Day more people become aware of the seriousness of the Chemtrail phenomenon. Their existence has already been confirmed and admitted.

Zeph, even though this thread may not have went the way the OP intended, it is still a useful tool.

This thread will allow members to distinguish between members who contribute and show a genuine effort to convey the truth and those who obfusticate, sidetrack and contribute nothing beneficial - and whose efforts oft betray a greater agenda and a coordinated effort.

This is important because certain issues such as this require the participation of Honest people and genuine concerted efforts. People's health depends on it, and the ramifications of this are so numerous and detrimental that it is the duty of all Good citizens to expose this malevolent activity.

If anything, new members will be able to distinguish between these citizens and those whom we call disinformationists, misinformationsts, repeaters, and the habitual reactionary debunkists and the like.

By reading only the last few pages of this thread New members will know who they can trust and who is here to sidetrack them and stop them from making any important discoveries or preventing them from sharing the discoveries they themselves have made. This is a good thing.

I would like to thank all of those who have contributed to this thread and helped to unmask those few, a swell as for contributing priceless information and bringing so concisely to this one location so much information relevant to the chemtrail phenomenon.


[edit on 1-9-2008 by TruthTellist]