An Attempt to Debunk Chemtrails For Good

"Does anyone see the illogic of this 'chemtrail' claim?"

Correct, I have yet to hear anything logical from you..

Humans only inhabit a fraction of the earth's surface - why spray the whole thing if you are only after the humans? I'm a pilot.

I'm a pilot and a weatherman so you must believe me or prove that I am not a pilot or a weatherman. Swingarm and Truelight can vouch for my credentials, which have never been disputed.

Chemtrails are real. Just because you don't think it would be fun to do doesn't mean someone else doesn't think that it would be a great idea to use aerosols as an unconventional weapon. My superior meteorological expertise lead me to form this conclusion. Swingarm and Truelight will confirm my status as an accredited expert in this field.

Humans only inhabit a fraction of earth's surface. This is the part that is sprayed

Don't bother arguing I have more expertise than you. I'm a pilot and a Meteorologist. The debate is over.

EDIT: To Say: Consensus has been achieved, The chemtrail phenomenon has been concluded to be man-made and dangerous to the human organism. the NATO Aerosolized Defense Grid has been determined to be a primary purpose for chemtrail spraying as are the recently implemented population control tactics under Codex Alimentarius (Google it).

These determinations have been reached by all of the relevant and credible experts on this forum and are currently the victim of several Failed and overtly Ludicrous attempts at debunking by the same three members who have been accused of being paid disinformation agents - which is itself a claim currently being disputed (though only by them), though the evidence suggests otherwise - For most of us, The verdict is in.

Our investigation has been a resounding success.

[edit on 27-8-2008 by TruthTellist]

www.youtube.com...

try this on for size, i took all these photos/videos on my back porch with a cheap digital camera.

reply to post by weedwhacker


WEED

First Question
"Instead of 'challenge', I just ask questions.....Who, How, Where and Why???? (the 'what' is implied) "

If that was a question, I suggest you tune in to the last 27 pages. I know your in denial but many questions are answered pertaining to who what etc.


WEED
"Second question: The Earth is a very big globe. So, this entails the 'How' up above....millions and millions of square miles to cover....HOW?"


This has been discussed at least twice in this thread. It has been established, the spraying done will accumulate in the atmosphere because it takes longer than a day for it to fall to earth. No mystery there. The spraying schedule just need to be operated so as to compound the effects, OK?


WEED
"Third question: Who? Well, I've that clear, it's not American Airlines, or any one else in the commercial airline biz "


Weed your not paying attention. This has been discussed over and over and over in this thread.
Military (which you admitted was a possibility), NATO, Which explains how just about every culture on the planet have aware people within their populations that something is not right in the sky. Commercial Airlines while not on the top of the list of suspects may be guilty because of joint use airports.



WEED
"Fourth question: Where? This relates to the Second question....as in, Why always overland, where people can see it?? I mean, the Sun shines on a lot of the oceans too.....Why not 'spray' there???? "



Who says they're not ? I haven't heard anyone claim that chemtrails don't exist over oceans ? I would like to ask though, What you would calculate the ratio of domestic flights to international flights to be. Concentrated efforts are made over land I suspect. The particulate will stay up in the atmosphere for a long time. Sooner or later you will begin to have uniform coverage. As mentioned before I believe the metal spraying and the poison spraying could be two different projects for two different purposes. HAARP is component of the former.



WEED
"BUT....if the 'intent' is to change climate....then it would be done out of sight, over water....surely NATO or the US Military could accomplish this???
Does anyone see the illogic of this 'chemtrail' claim? "



Why ? With the iggnorant population, why pay the night shift premiums ( thats not to say night spraying is'nt being done) Nobody cares, they're to busy being amused to death.
This "chemtrail claim" is only one piece of a very big puzzle that does not have your best interests in mind. Time to wake up and start being like one of the 4% that fought in the last US civil war. The country you live in today is a mere shadow of it's former self.

[edit on 27-8-2008 by Swingarm]

[edit on 27-8-2008 by Swingarm]

[edit on 27-8-2008 by Swingarm]

Originally posted by Swingarm

WEED
"Second question: The Earth is a very big globe. So, this entails the 'How' up above....millions and millions of square miles to cover....HOW?"


This has been discussed at least twice in this thread. It has been established, the spraying done will accumulate in the atmosphere because it takes longer than a day for it to fall to earth. No mystery there. The spraying schedule just need to be operated so as to compound the effects, OK?

Since I've been put on ignore by some disingenuous (IMO) contributors - apparently for presenting verifiable evidence - I wasn't going to comment any more (what's the point?)

But at least I can offer some rational observation here. Atmospheric circulation systems mean that anything in the northern hemisphere will not pass into the southern hemisphere and vice versa. So an effective spraying if intended for global effects would need to be carried out as much in the southern hemisphere as in the northern.

We can use volcanic eruptions as proxies for this.


My only other comment is: have you discovered any evidence of contrails being produced when according to atmospheric science such contrails should not occur? Until then, we have no visible evidence of chemtrails. It's an easy thing to prove - should take a few days at most.

But if contrails only occur when we expect contrail to occur, and only behave in accordance with well know atmospheric physics, then we may have to consider the possibility that what looks like a contrail and acts like a contrail is a contrail. Why think otherwise? If chemtrailing is happening it's therefore either happening out of sight, or else it's 'piggy-backing' normal contrails.

reply to post by TruthTellist

reply to post by Zepherian


I'd like to know since when is meteorology is a pseudoscience as well. I'd rather take a meteorologist who knows how the upper atmosphere works over an uneducated person who takes a picture of a contrail or a cloud and screams, "Oohh noez! tehy is spraying uss! They killin us! See teh shadow of teh cloud? see teh rainbow looking thingy in the cloud? Thats a chemical! I sees it" That is not proof of anything other than the inexperience, or lack of education in the meteorological field of the observer.

And anyone that tries to explain these things in a meteorological manner with an understanding of the mechanics of our atmosphere, he/she is then ridiculed and attacked by the ones that DONT know what it is or know anything about meteorology, and refuse to lleanr something.

reply to post by GenRadek


Nice to see you, GenRadek....I decided to post now, only because you are a new member, and I wanted it on record that we both were online at the same time....so I'm not accused of creating another identity...or something like that...

I just happened to sign on, just now....and see your post. Total serendipity.

If I have offended 'chemtrail believers' from the beginning, simply because I offer my experience and expertise to the discussion....then, they should just read the darn OP!!!!

OzWeatherman started this thread.....OTHERS jumped in to tear it down.....I jumped to the defense of Oz.....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Hehe Hiya! Thanks!
Dont worry, unless I am a clone of you that was secretly created in order to... uh.. nevermind! lol!

I always love to get into the debate on chemtrails. Its always so refreshing to see others who also think logically on this debate!

I see more user cloning and puppet accounts on Youtube so i know exactly what you are talking about! Its kinda interesting how you debate with one person, then magically three or four new user accounts pop up on the same day, with out any videos, and all of them join in attacking you. Its pathetic how people go to this length when they have nothing else to say.

Anyhows, I just hope we dont get too much of that here.

And yeah, I too wanted to help out Oz, he's a pretty smart guy!


[edit on 8/27/2008 by GenRadek]

reply to post by GenRadek


I already answered your question a few posts down from the post. It's not the field, it's the people.

Weedwhacker: of course we came to tare the thread down, it's a nonsensical obfuscation of a real phenomenon. You can't debunk what is usually understood as chemtrails, because it's an admitted occurance, as has been linked several times. I've seen a report of a block of cement falling on a house in Moscow from cloud seeding, that's how dense the elements we are being sprayed with are. And no, I don't really distinguish between weather modification and chemtrails, because I know the former will inevitably have enviromental consequences that are negative too.

If anything, you, Oz and essan are trying to bury the links and hide the issue with all your "me scientist" chestbeating, because no sane rational person would go on defending the negative position in the face of the presented evidence.

I'm sorry to say this, but you guys either have an agenda or you're stark raving mad.

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by GenRadek

 

I already answered your question a few posts down from the post. It's not the field, it's the people.

Weedwhacker: of course we came to tare the thread down, it's a nonsensical obfuscation of a real phenomenon. You can't debunk what is usually understood as chemtrails, because it's an admitted occurance, as has been linked several times. I've seen a report of a block of cement falling on a house in Moscow from cloud seeding, that's how dense the elements we are being sprayed with are. And no, I don't really distinguish between weather modification and chemtrails, because I know the former will inevitably have enviromental consequences that are negative too.

If anything, you, Oz and essan are trying to bury the links and hide the issue with all your "me scientist" chestbeating, because no sane rational person would go on defending the negative position in the face of the presented evidence.

I'm sorry to say this, but you guys either have an agenda or you're stark raving mad.

I apologize, but this full 'quote' was needed to point out....a problem.

It has to to do with a 'claim' of a block of cement, falling from the sky. In Moscow....yet, it is only 'hearsay'.....

Just was in St. Petersberg, Russia...last August. Saw nothing to be concerned about, as I looked up....

I very much enjoyed my visit, actually....

As to 'stark raving mad'....well....

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by GenRadek

 

I already answered your question a few posts down from the post. It's not the field, it's the people.

Weedwhacker: of course we came to tare the thread down, it's a nonsensical obfuscation of a real phenomenon. You can't debunk what is usually understood as chemtrails, because it's an admitted occurance, as has been linked several times. I've seen a report of a block of cement falling on a house in Moscow from cloud seeding, that's how dense the elements we are being sprayed with are. And no, I don't really distinguish between weather modification and chemtrails, because I know the former will inevitably have enviromental consequences that are negative too.

If anything, you, Oz and essan are trying to bury the links and hide the issue with all your "me scientist" chestbeating, because no sane rational person would go on defending the negative position in the face of the presented evidence.

I'm sorry to say this, but you guys either have an agenda or you're stark raving mad.

Well Said Zeph, I couldn't agree with you more.

reply to post by TruthTellist


TruthTellist....if you "couldn't agree more"....then you cannot read.

AND, TT....you claim to be a retired Medical Doctor? Hmmmm....

I am glad I was never one of your patients....

EDIT....because, jsut as doctor's script and handriting are nearly illegible, I also make typos...

[edit on 8/27/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Yes, your reflex action debunkitis is a sign you are stark raving mad. Sorry dude, but in this thread alone you, and others like you, have ignored a mountain of data shoved in front of you, and persist in this nonsensical, ignorant and probably biased attempt to convert unaware minds to the false position that there is not a highly coordinated and widespread activity of atmospheric spraying for an as yet not widely known agenda. Sorry, but your position is untennable, and quite frankly bloody irritating. If you had valid counter points, but all you do is sideline and sideline and sideline.

As for the hearsay: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Reuters link in the above thread about the moscow cement thing.

Jesus, you guys are unbelievable.

[edit on 27-8-2008 by Zepherian]

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Yes, your reflex action debunkitis is a sign you are stark raving mad. Sorry dude, but in this thread alone you, and others like you, have ignored a mountain of data shoved in front of you, and persist in this nonsensical, ignorant and probably biased attempt to convert unaware minds to the false position that there is not a highly coordinated and widespread activity of atmospheric spraying for an as yet not widely known agenda. Sorry, but your position is untennable, and quite frankly bloody irritating. If you had valid counter points, but all you do is sideline and sideline and sideline.

As for the hearsay: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Reuters link in the above thread about the moscow cement thing.

Jesus, you guys are unbelievable.

[edit on 27-8-2008 by Zepherian]

This was an interesting video in that thread.


HAARP CBC Broadcast Weather control part 1



HAARP CBC Broadcast Weather control part 2



30 mins before the 2008 Sichuan earthquake in China

Have a look at this patent

reply to post by Swingarm


That's not proof - that's evidence!

The debate is over. Chemtrails have been proven By NASA to exist.

Contrails do not turn into clouds. NASA said so. Don't believe us, we're just people on the internet

If you don't believe in reality, google :"NASA Says contrails don't turn into clouds"

Hidden in plane sight

Originally posted by TrueLight

Here is the list so far of supporting links provided by Chemtrail Theorists to this discussion PART1

(For the benefit of newcomers)

www.chycho.com... - Germany admits chemtrail operations

www.rense.com... - Chemtrails coming out the closet

www.evergreenaviation.com... - Evergreen aviation spray planes

home.iae.nl... - Chemical testing admitted

thomas.loc.gov...:H.R.2977.IH: - Kucinich bill HR.2977

globalresearch.ca... - Weather modification

weatherwars.info... - weatherwars

www.redding.com... - news article

www.bbsradio.com... - radio article

www.holmestead.ca... - chem link

members.aol.com... - chem link 2

educate-yourself.org... - educate yourself chemlink 3

www.holmestead.ca... - evergreen cia front

www.carnicom.com... - carnicom 1

www.abovetopsecret.com... - ats thread

www.holmestead.ca... - more cia link

www.carnicom.com... - carnicom 2

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com... - forbidden knowledge chemtrails link

www.alienzoo.com... - alien zoo link

home.iae.nl... - chemical testing admission

www.sourcewatch.org... - cia links

www.lewrockwell.com... - cia tie in 2

www.abovetopsecret.com... - another ats thread

www.bariumblues.com... - barium blues

www.abovetopsecret.com... - bioweapons tested on citizens

www.carnicom.com... - aircraft mechanics claim

www.apfn.org... - biological experiments on citizens

foia.state.gov... - foia link

www.lib.berkeley.edu... - declassified documents

www.wramc.army.mil... - walter reed army docs

www.wramc.army.mil... -

creeping nematodes

www.chemtrailcentral.com... - Chemtrail central

weatherwars.info... - weather wars

www.youtube.com... - scott stevens youtube vid

illuminatimatrix.wordpress.com... - alt chemtrail view

www.rense.com... - weather modification rense

www.chycho.com... - german army admits spraying

news.bbc.co.uk... - usa admits chem weapons testing

www.timesonline.co.uk... - times online article

globalresearch.ca... - canadian site

www.abovetopsecret.com... - ATS thread

www.infowars.com... - info wars link

en.wikipedia.org... - wiki chemtrails

www.youtube.com... youtube vid , toxic sky

www.metacafe.com... toxic sky part 2

video.google.com... google video, clouds of death

www.bariumblues.com... haarp patent

www.montalk.net... montalk cloudbusting info

www.youtube.com... youtube search cloudbusting

www.freepatentsonline.com... patents list

www.patentstorm.us... patents list 2

video.google.com...# - google video wilhelm reich

www.geocities.co.jp... torsion fields

chem11.proboards2.com... - chemtrails discussion

www.exopolitics.org.uk... - chemtrails and orbs

www.bariumblues.com... orbs photo'd

www.youtube.com... youtube vid

www.rense.com... more rense research

www.novavax.com... novax site

www.montalk.net... - chemtrails and sars

www.guardian.co.uk... - newspaper story

www.youtube.com... youtube vid

www.proliberty.com... - proliberty site

www.myhero.com... - dr rosalie bertell biography

www.youtube.com... dr rosalie bertell states chemtrails real

www.youtube.com... dr rosalie bertell on haarp

www.whale.to... chemtrails site

divinecosmos.com... david wilcock site

www.divinecosmos.com... david wilcock alt link

www.youtube.com... youtube cloudbuster search

www.youtube.com... youtube cloudbuster search 2

www.uow.edu.au... sci fraud

seattlepi.nwsource.com... sci article 1

www.nature.com... sci article 2

physicsandphysicists.blogspot.com... sci article 3

(Cont...)

[edit on 28-8-2008 by TruthTellist]

Originally posted by TrueLight
reply to post by TrueLight

 

Here is the list so far of supporting links provided by Chemtrail Theorists to this discussion PART2

www.geocities.co.jp... - geocities site

montalk.net... - timeline dynamics

enterprisemission.com... nato aerosol defence

members.tripod.com... aerosol defence 2

enterprisemission.com... aerosol defence 3

montalk.net... HAARP earthquakes hurricanes

www.bariumblues.com... - reason for chemtrails

www.willthomas.net... - concern over chemtrails




Books Etc

Amazon books on chemtrails

Dr. Len Horowitz, "Death in the Air: Globalism, Terrorism and Toxic Warfare".

A.K. Johnston, PhD. "UFO tactics: Weather Shield to Chemtrails".

K. Ya. Kondratyev, : "Climatic Effects of Aerosols and Clouds".

William Thomas, "Chemtrails Confirmed".

Tim Swartz and Timothy Beckley, "The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla: HAARP-Chemtrails and Secret of Alternative 4".

Ed Regis, "The Biology of Doom: America's Secret Germ Warfare Project".

J.D. Aber and K.J. Nadelhoffer, "Nitrogen Saturation in Northern Forest Ecosystems." Bioscience, 39 (1989) pages

378-386

American Geophysical Union, "Jet contrails to be significant climate factor by 2050," AGU press release no. 99-19,

6/21/99

R.B. Ames and W.C. Malm, "Estimating the Contribution of the Mohave Coal-fired Power Plant Emissions to Atmospheric

Extinction at Grand Canyon National Park." In Visual Air Quality" Aerosols and Global Radiation Balance, Air and

Waste Management Association, Pittsburgh, Pa., 683-697, 1997.

Marcus Dalton, "Chemtrails Are Over Las Vegas." Las Vegas Tribune, vol. 7 Issue 3, 8/19/05

S.L. Baughcum, "Subsonic aircraft emission inventories, In:Atmospheric Effects of Aviation:First Report of the

Subsonic Assessment Project." NASA RP-1385, pp. 15-29, 1996

Bill Gallagher, "Chemical Aurora Keyhole Surveillance." Arizona Indymedia, May 2004

Laura Kelly, "Mysterious powder shrouds area." The Alpenhorn News, Feb. 2006

D.M. Hunten, "Residence Times of Aerosols and Gases in the Stratosphere." Geophysical Research Letters 2(1): 26-27,

1975

A.C. Mueller, "The Effects of Particulates from Solid Rocket Motors Fired in Space." Advances in Space Research 5

(2): 77-86, 1985.

U. Schumann, "In Situ Observations of Particles in Jet Aircraft Exhausts and Contrails for Different Sulfur-

Containing Fuels." Journal of Geographical Research, Vol. 101, Issue D3, 1996.

weather mod patents


6569393-5/27/03-Method and Device for Cleaning the Atmosphere.
6520425-2/18/03-Proces and Apparatus for the Production of Nanofibers.
6412416-7/2/02-Propellant-Based Aerosol Generation Devices and Method.
6315213-11/13/01-Method of Modifying Weather.
6263744-7/24/01-Automated Mobility-Classified-Aerosol Detector.
6056203-5/2/00-Method and Apparatus for Modifying Supercooled Clouds.
6030506-2/29/00-Preparation of Independently Generated Highly Reactive Chemical Species.
5984239-11/16/99-Weather Modification by Artificial Satellite.
5762298-6/9/98-Use of Artificial Satellites in Earth Orbits Adaptively to Modify the Effect that Solar Radiation

Would Otherwise Have on Earth's Weather.
5628455-5/13/97-Method and Apparatus for Modification of Supercooled Fog.
5286979-2/15/94-Process for Absorbing Ultraviolet Radiation Using Dispersed Melanin.
5104069-4/114/92-Apparatus and Method for Ejecting Matter from an Aircraft.
5038664-8/13/94-Method for Producing a Shell of Relativisitic Particles at an Altitude Above the Earth's Surface.
4999637-3/12/91-Creation of Artificial Ionization Clouds Above the Earth.
4873928-10/17/89-Nuclear-Sized Explosions without Radiation.
4686605-8/11/87-Method and Apparatus for Altering a Region in the Earth's Atmosphere, Ionosphere, and/or

Magnetosphere.
5218374-6/8/93-Power Beaming System with Printer Circuit Radiating Elements Having Resonating Cavities.

[edit on 28/0808/08 by neformore]

Spraying Heavy Metals To Stop Global Warming

The proof is there for all to see - Thanks to the efforts of dedicated citizens (Swingarm, Truelight)

There will always be people here to help you deny the reality and to sideline and derail people who have pertinent and important information to release concerning the man-made, and dangerous chemtrail phenomenon.

The reality is so frightening that having a self-proclaimed expert on hand to create a meme of plausible deniability is actually an effective way of causing people to dismiss the chemtrail phenomenon.

But then you take a look at the evidence, and the malevolent intent becomes self-evident. planes (either NATO or Private) are spraying something on the densely populated areas in the countries that are a part of NATO.

*Keep in mind, there are NO LAWS against or even about weather modification in North America. If you are a billionaire and you want it to rain on city where your ex-wife lives, you can. If you want to cause a drought or flood your farming competitions and you have the money - there is NOTHING stopping you.

There are no laws prohibiting Weather modification in the United States. Every country that joins NATO has their weather modification laws repealed or altered to suit the purposes of NATO and the Aerosolized Defense Grid.

The Government loves you and I'm a meteorologist so you have to believe me (I'm your resident Weather Expert. I speak with authority. j/k.)

Concerning debates, especially on important subject such as chemtrails, are a blatant effort to force members with important information to confine their efforts to a single thread. Do not do this. This matter is of utmost importance and must be discussed in public. Do not give in, you will only be concealing your information and contributions from the larger audience (which is the very purpose of tricking you into such a debate).

Even if you win, you'll still lose: You will have already been sidetracked into debating an opponent who will never believe you and who will go on acting as a sycophant, denying the evident reality of man-made chemtrails. Not to mention that hardly anyone else will get to see your contributions.