"issues are important" thread

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posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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For all those who doubt - here is a thread for you.

Issue centric threads do exist in this forum. Abundantly. But the masses (those who complain about there being no issue centric threads) have allowed *the* issue centric threads to die.

Without further a due:




So to those who say there's nothing here, there ya go. Those threads have died. These threads are all one sided, of course. But what else would you want from political discussion? Isnt the intent of political debate to persuade votes for one candidate over another?

Rather or not each of those threads contains an issue important to YOU is an argument for another time. But they all contain ISSUES of a political nature. All of which have died.

If you dont like any of those issues - perhaps start a thread discussing issues that are important to you?


in political discussion, you aim to talk about issues important to you - and why one candidate is good where they're concerned, and another candidate is bad.

To those who wanted to know mccains voting record on benefits for the troops, the answer was here. You just had to look.

To those who wanted to discuss the issues as they pertain to this election, here's a good start.

There are other threads im positive i've missed. This is just a list of threads that cover REAL issues that were in the back of my mind. So if i left anyone out - please don't feel offended. Feel free to add a list of your own perhaps?

Please stick to the "issues" of politics.

Age, race, family, and campaign staff have nothing to do with this election in terms of political issues. Voting records, direct quotes, and candidate intentions, however, do.

[edit on 8/5/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Mod Edit: Additions

[edit on 14-8-2008 by MemoryShock]




posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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posted in wrong thread
my apologies

too many windows

[edit on 8/5/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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Andrew, thank you for the amazing list of actual issues.


Honeslty though, I think we are all so ready for the election to come and go, that we are just a bunch of news hounds ready to comment on the next big thing in the news cycle.

We've reached a level of cognitive dissonance that issues have become background props and almost passe, where as what really causes threads to get posts are completely non-issue based.

Don't get me wrong. I do think we have a lot of really good discussions centered around non-issue threads. I've learned a lot about myself and others simply through debating meaningless crap.

I've also made some friends and probably some foes, on both sides of the aisle. Really that's what we come here to do. Debate and share a comraderie of interests, if not opinions; and ultimately, to hopefully have our own effect on the blogosphere as it relates to the topics we champion.

Perhaps it is time to debate some of the other ISSUE based threads you have graciously researched and highlighted.

But then again, maybe we've said all there is to say on those. I for one will be perusing them in a few minutes to find out.

As an aside, I think it is interesting to see how politics changes the dynamic of media. What we have seen here at ATS with this specific discussion forum is the phenomena that is the news cycle of election years. It is pervasive, and not so much a conspiracy as it is the effect of a system full of individuals who feel compelled to stand up for what they believe is right or attack what they feel is wrong. It feeds off of that basic "urge to be right" that we all have inside.

And we don't care sometimes what we have to be right about, whether it be Nuclear Proliferation, Gay Marriage, or how the condiments a candidate puts on his sandwich speaks to his patriotism. We will debate it into the ground in this country and on this forum.

I mean heck, have you ever seen "The View"???

Did I just compare ATS to The View?







Now, I bet someone is going to have to chime in with some deflecting rhetoric which compares Liberals to everything that is wrong with this country, or it portrays Conservatives in the same way.

Just wait.. it's bound to happen....


[edit on 5-8-2008 by Quazga]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


All of these threads died for one reason,they were like liberal talk radio.Nobody wants to listen to retoric,and party line nonsense.Conservatives look at the heart of the issue,and how it will affect the country as a whole.The Liberals look at the glossy outside of the issue, and how it will benifit them.That is the difference between the two.
You can't really debate issues with a liberal. A -Most liberals don't understand the underlying problems and long term effects of certaint issues. B- When you point out the flaws in their planned remedies,all they can do is get mad and call you a racist. So why even bother.



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Quazga

Now, I bet someone is going to have to chime in with some deflecting rhetoric which compares Liberals to everything that is wrong with this country, or it portrays Conservatives in the same way.

Just wait.. it's bound to happen....


Wow.. I didn't expect to see an off topic post meeting my very specifications so quickly.

Anyway, As I mentioned above Andrew, thank you for doing the research on these and bringing them to our attention.



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by daddyroo45
 


Says the guy who didnt look into the threads.

I'll tell ya what, "daddyroo" - if you think the threads are garbage, i challenge you to create your own.

If you can't, well, then we have a new problem all together, don't we?

Regardless of which position you take on these issues in these threads, they are still threads about issues.

You can go into the thread, and express your opinion on it.
it is a political issue, and not name calling or mud slinging.

But of course, you'd actually have to look at them to come to that conclusion



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
For all those who doubt - here is a thread for you.

Issue centric threads do exist in this forum. Abundantly. But the masses (those who complain about there being no issue centric threads) have allowed *the* issue centric threads to die.


So now it's our fault that the front page of Decision 2008 reads like some conservative/liberal hack gossip rag and we should have been digging up the topics we mostly never saw and hoping that when we respond they wont be 9 pages deep in like 30 mins?

You can't keep the "issues" afloat if you don't see them and when you do respond no one else will because they want to see proof that Obama is an American citizen or debate that he is one.

It's not the people that are complaining about the quality of threads fault, its that the quality of threads attract a LARGER number of a certain type of person. Some that don't care to talk about issues and love a good rumor spread about someone they hate, some so offended by the blatant lies they are compelled to debunk them. Those threads you posted have merit...hence they die.

I get my issues discussed elsewhere now.
I see this forum as somewhat of a joke and don't take it seriously anymore.

- Lee



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by lee anoma
 


Wow. Never expected that kind of post from you Lee. But okay. Lets run with it.



So now it's our fault that the front page of Decision 2008 reads like some conservative/liberal hack gossip rag and we should have been digging up the topics we mostly never saw and hoping that when we respond they wont be 9 pages deep in like 30 mins?


"our fault"? I see no where in there YOUR name under "our".

There are numerous threads created in the decision 2008 forum. They all complain that there are no "real issues" being discussed in the decision 2008 forum.

Thats a bogus claim.
This is proof. There ARE issues being discussed, but people (the masses) choose to ignore them.

I make this claim based on the # of Stars and Flags all of these cookie-cutter "complain fest" threads recieve.

its always "whine whine whine" moan and groan, and never offer solutions of their own.

So here's an attempt at a solution.


You say it yourself

You dont take it seriously anymore.

You've contributed actual issues to this forum, and some of us have responded.

But the threads died because nobody else was interested. They're more into the gossip.

They star and flag, and keep alive the threads that complain about the garbage, but they never contribute anything to the threads that talk about the issues....seems hypocritical to me..... (and before anyone decides to get all flustered, im not saying this is EVERYONE. Im saying "the masses". please and seriously - just think about what im saying.




There are more intelligent users in ATS than there are forum trolls and ignorance-mongers.

If the stars and flags that these cookie-cutter complain threads recieve are any indication as to how many people still come here, i believe you can begin to see the argument im trying to make.

If 80 ppl will flag one thread because it complains about there being too much complaining ... they why can't they (those 80 people who flagged) be the ones who help make the change?

Its too easy to complain.

There are already people complaining about this thread.

That is hilarious.


Just my 2 cents.

[edit on 8/5/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

[edit on 8/5/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 12:00 AM
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To give you a perfect example of what im talking about

lets look at one thread in particular

What is your biggest issue this election?


never made it past the first page.

Now. If people are truly interested in discussing issues - here's a perfect opportunity to do so.

The only other options people are left with are leaving the deicsion 2008 forums

or starring and flagging other threads that complain about the decision 2008 forums.


Neither second option offers a solution to anything that is being complained about.

Here is your chance. This list is just the start of a bunch of other threads in this very forum that talk about the things people say don't get talked about.

Im not pointing the finger at ANYONE in particular.

But how one could argue that im wrong about this, i really dont know.

Perhaps we should resurrect the post i just finished outlining?

What issues are important to you?

There ya go.

Enjoy



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 12:08 AM
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the real issues are do you want Mccain to kick you where the sun doesn't shine or Obama.You going to get a shi@ kicking either way.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 04:37 AM
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Originally posted by daddyroo45
reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


All of these threads died for one reason,they were like liberal talk radio rant rant etc.


Maybe because us "Libs" are the only ones that care about the issues


You know I assumed that after the neocons tried this propaganda crap to get support for the Iraq war people would have learned by now.


I tell ya what, why dont you and your fellow rightwingers here start posting more threads about why we should vote for John McCain, policy wise, not as to whether Obama puts a flag on his car or whatever you fellas got going on now. In that way it wont be just us darn libs posting these threads about the candidates policies and political stances.


[edit on 6-8-2008 by southern_Guardian]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by southern_Guardian
 


Can you point out one issue that Obama has a solution to that doesn't involve raising taxes and creating more government involvment,in the daily affairs of the public?
Let's suppose that I am a noncommitted voter.Explain to me how Mr. Obama's health care plan will work without placing an extra tax burden on part of the population? How this plan will keep the government from controlling more of our daily lives?



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by daddyroo45
 


this thread has nothing to do with which you speak. The answers to your questions lie in one of many links listed in the OP

Please check out those links, and give those threads some attention, as they are all equally deserving of it.

You can carry out your inquiries there.

Thanks



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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perhaps you could ask your question in this thread

What does change mean


because if Obama is talking about Change, then surely someone could offer you examples of what he means when it comes to taxes.

Just a thought, though. There are others to choose from.



posted on Aug, 10 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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yes I agree issues are important however there are more important issues than these.How about the issue of government paying no attention to the people?How about the issue of the constitution being a god damn piece of paper?He's right you know that's all it is right now.How about the issue of the government owning the people?Why aren't politicians talking about those issues?Could it be they don't want those issues brought up?You may delude yourself into thinking McCain or Obama are out to do something for this country but think about it.Bush a far right republican wants fisa passed and Pelosi a far left democrat rams it through the house.Obama votes yes?Bush commits the crime and Pelosi protects him?Show me please the common sence in this.Do me a favor and go here and read.

www.usavsus.info...



posted on Aug, 10 2008 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by pooty
 


those are issues as they pertain to political conspiracy

this board is about the decision 2008 elections


thats why this thread doesnt cover what you talk about....
just to answer your qestion.



posted on Aug, 10 2008 @ 05:23 PM
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those are issues as they pertain to political fact.They do in that respect pertain to this election.



posted on Aug, 10 2008 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by pooty
 


Well yeah - i mean - if you want to twist it that way fine.

But this thread was created out of spite for that line of thinking.

You ssee - the majority of the poeple who frequent this forum were pissed off and fed up with the types of threads you are trying to condone....they were saying that threads like the ones listed in the OP don't exist.

So i created a thread that has links to other threads so that they can have ease of reference to locate threads that talk about the things they said don't exist in this forum.


So yes - your threads are important too.

but the types of threads you are talking about are smeared all over the front pages of decision 2008 forum like some sort of sticky elmers glue. NO matter hwo hard you try to change the topic of discussion


things resort back to

"obama still smokes CRACK and he lies to us....so that makes him dishonest!"

and

"heh he he he, Obama smokes cigarettes!! HE IS SUCH AN ASS!!! DONT VOTE FOR OBAMA THE MARLBORO MAN ROTFLACOPTERS"



posted on Aug, 10 2008 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 

Well Andrew I'm very sorry if you think I was trying to derail your thread.I apologise.I really could care less if Obama smokes crack or if McCain does for that matter.What I was trying to point out is it does not really matter what either of them says or does.I'm tired of always having to choose the least of two evils and was trying to show you those issues you have listed really make no difference.Again I'm sorry if you think I was trying to derail your thread.



posted on Aug, 10 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by pooty
 


Not at all, i do not think you were derailing at all

i was telling you why the this thread exists


I agree that the things you talk about ARE important


but other people disagree and say that we dont talk about political issues like gun control, abortion, taxes, etc.

this thread was intended to show those people that they are wrong.





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