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John McCain vs John McCain

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posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 09:52 AM
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There are not any inconsistencies in the video.

if there are - address them and back them up. Please, i'd love to be proven wrong




First off - my apologies to the forum staff. Our tangent got off track, in a big way - and we should all be ashamed



DocMoreau - VERY WELL PUT INDEED!

Im glad someone else was able to get the premise of the post



Llyod:

I think you're reading more into what he said Andrew. He initially said he supported gay ceremonies, but he never said they should be legally recognized. He didn't lie or change his stance in the second instance.


My apologies if i indicated he flip flopped.

I intended to point that out as another one of McCains flaws. He doesnt think "gay marraige" should be legal.

He bases his decision on religion. I make that loose assumption based on this


The family represents the foundation of Western Civilization and civil society and John McCain believes the institution of marriage is a union between one man and one woman. It is only this definition that sufficiently recognizes the vital and unique role played by mothers and fathers in the raising of children, and the role of the family in shaping, stabilizing, and strengthening communities and our nation


Source



I intended to show that so i could compare it to his uses of the following:

His use of the racial slur "gook"

McCains tirade at his wife

McCain talks about beating his wife


It took him 25 years to realize MLK day is a good thing, and only changed his role when came under fire from minority groups



I mean, come on.

People say democrats play the race/sex card.

I say you play the cards you're dealt.

When republicans like mccain and bush are in power - and they're dealing the cards, you make due with what you are given.

Democrats may pull the occasional race/sex card

but its only because republicans do things like the aforementioned list, to even allow those cards to exist.



[edit on 8/5/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]




posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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How about both candidates suck!

We once again have false choices for president!

They both flip-flop daily - they both don't give a flip for the plight of the average American - they both are ultra-elite, wealthy and pompous.

November 2 - Vote NONE OF THE ABOVE!!!!!



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:04 AM
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Spoken like a true American going into battle this is a cake walk
10 years later tails between their legs economy broken stunned
how can the American people let this go on like this
please stop the killing of innocent people
the Iraqi Govt asked you to leave I suggest you do it before they begin entering the green zone 80 million strong



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by flashback
It's hard to keep 72 and counting McFlops straight.

www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com...


Thanks for the link!

Now, everybody... If you want an object lesson on how badly McCain flops, check it out.



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Llyod:
My apologies if i indicated he flip flopped.

I intended to point that out as another one of McCains flaws. He doesnt think "gay marraige" should be legal.

He bases his decision on religion. I make that loose assumption based on this


The family represents the foundation of Western Civilization and civil society and John McCain believes the institution of marriage is a union between one man and one woman. It is only this definition that sufficiently recognizes the vital and unique role played by mothers and fathers in the raising of children, and the role of the family in shaping, stabilizing, and strengthening communities and our nation

I applaud him for maintaining his stance whether you or I agree with him. He could easily lie and garner a lot more votes. I consider that honorable.


I intended to show that so i could compare it to his uses of the following:

His use of the racial slur "gook"

McCains tirade at his wife

McCain talks about beating his wife


It took him 25 years to realize MLK day is a good thing, and only changed his role when came under fire from minority groups

The gook slur he should have kept to himself. I can't blame him for his resentments though, considering he was referring to his captors that tortured and humiliated him for almost five years, not the Vietnamese people in general. Anyone who claims they wouldn't harbor similar feelings are only lying to themselves.

As for the domestic abuse stuff, I imagine every couple in the country has lost their temper with one another at some point in time. I doubt he routinely beats her or verbally abuses her. Cindy McCain don't strike me as the type of lady to permit it.

He's 72 years old, and can't raise his arms above shoulder level due to his previous injuries Andrew. How dangerous can the guy really be?




I mean, come on.

People say democrats play the race card.

I say you play the cards you're dealt.

When republicans like mccain and bush are in power - and they're dealing the cards, you make due with what you are given.

Is this another way of saying: "The Ends justify the means"?


Democrats may pull the occasional race card

but its only because republicans do things like the aforementioned list, to even allow those cards to exist.

Two wrongs still don't make a right..



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by LLoyd45
 


Your undying worship of almighty McCain precedes you


I'm impressed of the lengths that some mccain supporters will go to justify his racial, sexual, and gender based inequalities.

If you're not a white, christian male in the united states, you really don't mean anything in mccains eyes.

And his actions says that, not me.

And just because he stands his ground doesnt mean he's not wrong.

You applaud him for being prejudice?

....:shk:

[edit on 8/5/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by LLoyd45

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
my favorite part

fast forward to 2:20

he totally bombs on the gay marriage.

Hilarious


I think you're reading more into what he said Andrew. He initially said he supported gay ceremonies, but he never said they should be legally recognized. He didn't lie or change his stance in the second instance.

His opinion didn't go over well with some of the audience, but he still stated his honest opinion, when he could have just as easily tried to pander the gay vote. you should applaud his integrity not try to twist his word around.

I thought you wanted to speak about real issues not innuendos dude..


Like I said LLyod,,, all politicians try their best to walk the line. I'm sure Mccain did not want to offend gay people and I think he made the attempt not to.

Do you think gay marriage should be allowed?

JSMIII: I think gay marriage should be allowed,,, if its a ceremony thing,,, If you want to call it that.

I think this first answer was an attempt to semi pander to the gay vote,,, if he was not pressed upon the issue his stance in this forum would have catered to
both gays and intolerance alike.

the first line for the gays
the second line for the intolerance
the third line for the libertarians

IMO

But yes after he was pressed he did clarify...

But dude he is a politician... It is in his best interest to make as many people happy as he can.

I am voting for OBAMA... I am a social liberal and I believe in a bottom up economy.
If I am intellectually honest I can say that both men try their best to walk the line its not black and white (well you know what I mean). One man is not perfect and the other sub human,,, I wish both sides could recognize and own up to this.

On a side note I have been asking the Arizona natives on ATS what they think of Mccain, interesting stuff... Same with the illinois folks...

This method you get a very good picture.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by mental modulator]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Your undying worship of almighty McCain precedes you

I think you know this isn't true Andrew, but you would like for everyone to believe it to be so.



I'm impressed of the lengths that some mccain supporters will go to justify his racial, sexual, and gender based inequalities.
I'm not trying to justify anything, I simply was showing how you were making a mountain out of a mole hill.


If you're not a white, christian male in the united states, you really don't mean anything in mccains eyes.

And his actions says that, not me.

Then why does he have an adopted daughter of Bangladesh heritage? If he really is racist, he has a very strange way of showing it..


And just because he stands his ground doesnt mean he's not wrong.

I didn't say he was right, just that it was honorable for him to maintain his position even when it costs him potential votes. There's a difference.


You applaud him for being prejudice?
Huh? Where did I say that?



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by LLoyd45

I think you know this isn't true Andrew, but you would like for everyone to believe it to be so.


Just trying out my new label gun made by conservatives
If Obama is a mesiah, then McCain must be the almighty



I'm not trying to justify anything, I simply was showing how you were making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I hardly see how im doing that? Would you not hold a senator to some stable moral obligation? Should a senator not act in the same manner as, say, a general? With dignity, equality, and respect? "Conduct befitting a senator"???



Then why does he have an adopted daughter of Bangladesh heritage? If he really is racist, he has a very strange way of showing it..


I'm not sure, im not his therapist. But using racial slurs, and other things listed above, give rise to speculation as to what is really wrong w/ this man.



I didn't say he was right, just that it was honorable for him to maintain his position even when it costs him potential votes. There's a difference.


...So it's honorable to be wrong, despite being wrong? I really dont follow how this is honorable. Seriously, i don't. Its like a KKK member hating "n-word" kinds of people. They don't move on their position simply because its wrong. Is that being noble and honorable?????



Huh? Where did I say that?




You didnt have to "say" anything. you're sticking up for him being prejudice and discriminatory by offering "well its okay for mccain to do it, because it happens to other people too"

if that logic got applied to any other circumstance, there'd be no need for law what so ever.

Murder is okay - because it happens to other people.
Child abuse is okay because it happens to other children.


"two wrongs don't make a right"


indeed.
Maybe mccain should learn that one



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Just trying out my new label gun made by conservatives
If Obama is a mesiah, then McCain must be the almighty
If you're implying I'm a conservative, i'm actually registered as a Democrat. I'm not sure how I'll vote this year though..


I hardly see how im doing that? Would you not hold a senator to some stable moral obligation? Should a senator not act in the same manner as, say, a general? With dignity, equality, and respect? "Conduct befitting a senator"???

Senators are people too, not Demigods. I expect them to makes mistakes just like you or me. As long as they learn from their mistakes, it's cool with me if they screw up occassionally.


I'm not sure, im not his therapist. But using racial slurs, and other things listed above, give rise to speculation as to what is really wrong w/ this man.
Loving a little child that has never harmed anyone isn't a sign of mental illness or confusion. It's called compassion.



...So it's honorable to be wrong, despite being wrong? I really dont follow how this is honorable. Seriously, i don't. Its like a KKK member hating "n-word" kinds of people. They don't move on their position simply because its wrong. Is that being noble and honorable?????
It's not honorable to be wrong, it's honorable to stand by your beliefs despite the problems that stance may cause you. How did the KKK get into this? LOL



You didnt have to "say" anything. you're sticking up for him being prejudice and discriminatory by offering "well its okay for mccain to do it, because it happens to other people too"

if that logic got applied to any other circumstance, there'd be no need for law what so ever.
Oh! I forgot you can read my mind. you're putting words into my mouth Andrew, and you know it.


Murder is okay - because it happens to other people.
Child abuse is okay because it happens to other children.
I never said that, nor did John McCain..



"two wrongs don't make a right"


indeed.
Maybe mccain should learn that one
I don't know that he hasn't learned it, and honestly neither do you.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by LLoyd45]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:08 AM
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To be fair,
9 months ago Obama didn't support drilling off shore either. Eventually he changed his mind and decided to make a compromise, as I think McCain did as well.


playing two sound bites next to eachother doesn't capture a "man vs himself" unless you accompany it with the span of time between each statement.

If he's on Fox saying one thing, then on CNN later on the same day saying something else, thats a problem. If there were several months between the statements thats just growth of understanding and a changing of the landscape of the issue.


[edit on 5-8-2008 by Quazga]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:16 AM
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The problem with both John McCain and Lord Messiah Obama is that they both "flip flop".

If you look at their flip flops...they start off with a liberal position, which is usually wrong in the first place, then to make it right they have to flip to the right position.

Real Conservatives rarely run into this problem because the conservative stance is usually right in the first place, so there is no need to flip flop.

McCain gets in trouble when he wants to "reach out" and sing kumbya with liberals. Then he has to correct himself to the right position, and this becomes a flip-flop.

Lord Obama flips to connect with the moonbat wing of the party, then he has to flop to connect with reality.



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by RRconservative
 




The problem with both candidates is that they both flip flop.

Could not agree more.

NOW

That being said - this is universal for all politicians. Conservatism is very seldom right, actually, unless you yourself are a conservative. in which case, of course you're going to think that way.

So - since we know all politicians flip flop, wouldnt you think it'd be a bit more intelligent to make a choice based on who you agree with more?

im sick and tired of the "both politicans suck" argument. its weak and its a cop-out


ALL politicians suck.
But its the world we live in. You either vote for a politician you can stomach, or you get out of "the game"

Wishful thinking never ended a single problem.



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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Reply to post by Animal
 


Animal, you nailed it. McCain is straight up confused about basic facts. Now whether it's because he's old and suffering early warning signs of dementia or because he's totally uninformed/doesn't care is up for debate. Whichever is the case, the man is simply unfit to serve as President. Let me be clear that this has nothing to do with age, it has to do with McCain's displayed behavior.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by LLoyd45
He's 72 years old, and can't raise his arms above shoulder level due to his previous injuries Andrew. How dangerous can the guy really be?


Um, how high does one have to raise their arms to sign executive orders, or far worse, death warrants? Or to push the button launching the full Nuclear Arsenal at any of his perceived enemies, which may be the 'gooks' he might see in China.

I have seen you use McCain's age as a defense many times around here, and I am calling you on it once and for all. John McCain would be the oldest person ever elected into the office of President of the United States. You do realize his 'age' puts us as voters in the awkward position that upon his selection of a Vice Presidential candidate, and their ticket's unlikely election into office, that he could die of 'natural causes' the day after their inauguration? Yes, Obama could die of 'natural causes' due to his age as well, he could pop off from a heart attack after some basketball. But who is more likely to die of old age in the next 9 months, McCain or Obama? Or for that matter, die of 'natural causes'? McCain for both questions. McCain could die any day from old age and the rigors of the campaign trail before the convention. That is a very real possibility.

His age is more of a hinderance than a help. Sure he has 'vast' experience due to his age, but it is 'his experience' that got us here as a Senator. His old age also acts as hinderance in the areas of technology. Some, like yourself, have even tried to cover his numerous flubs as old age, but how is that a good thing in a President? Because he is Republican, and that is all that matters? Take your self out of this election, imagine a 72 year old Democrat, who had flip flopped countless times, and has a history of cancer to boot, is there anyway that you would pick him over the 46 year old Republican who has less experience, but enough to unite people the world over. Do you really think that a 72 year old presidential nominee is "not dangerous" because he is old and beat up?

Perhaps some see his 86+ flip flops that people can compile on the internet of his Senate record as being a progressive Republican. Some might even see his divorce (flip flop?) from his crippled first wife to marry an heiress in her 20's as honorable. I can't, I see a liar and an adulterer who will do anything to achieve power, lying to his constituents faces along the way.

John McCain is like an ether. One day its his old age. Or his 'zany' sense of humor. Or his temper. But what about John McCain makes him capable to lead anymore now than when he was younger, and going against Bush? Is it the number of policies he has flip flopped on, is that what qualifies him? Or the 8 years of acting as Bush's mothpiece in the Senate? He wasn't qualified in 2000. What qualifies him anymore now?

It is certainly not his age...
DocMoreau

Somehow I posted be for I was finished with a statement... Edit to Add

[edit on 5/8/2008 by DocMoreau]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by DocMoreau
Um, how high does one have to raise their arms to sign executive orders, or far worse, death warrants? Or to push the button launching the full Nuclear Arsenal at any of his perceived enemies, which may be the 'gooks' he might see in China.

I was referring to Andrew's attempted portrayal as a domestic abuser, which is laughable considering his age and physical impairments.


I have seen you use McCain's age as a defense many times around here, and I am calling you on it once and for all. John McCain would be the oldest person ever elected into the office of President of the United States.

His age is a valid defense for lapses of memory or lack of internet knowlegdeability. I'm 45 years old, and forget inconsequential things all the time.

Ronald Reagan was 69 when he became President, and there a millions of Americans that would argue he was one of the best Presidents of all time. He was a lot like John McCain in his straight-talking approach to issues. He didn't like to mince or parse words with anyone. He was also pro-military and believed in a strong America.


You do realize his 'age' puts us as voters in the awkward position that upon his selection of a Vice Presidential candidate, and their ticket's unlikely election into office, that he could die of 'natural causes' the day after their inauguration? Yes, Obama could die of 'natural causes' due to his age as well, he could pop off from a heart attack after some basketball. But who is more likely to die of old age in the next 9 months, McCain or Obama? Or for that matter, die of 'natural causes'? McCain for both questions. McCain could die any day from old age and the rigors of the campaign trail before the convention. That is a very real possibility.

If the President were to die while in office it would be an important no matter who he was. The VP slot is a vital role no matter if it's John McCain's choice or Barack Obama's.


His age is more of a hinderance than a help. Sure he has 'vast' experience due to his age, but it is 'his experience' that got us here as a Senator. His old age also acts as hinderance in the areas of technology. Some, like yourself, have even tried to cover his numerous flubs as old age, but how is that a good thing in a President? Because he is Republican, and that is all that matters? Take your self out of this election, imagine a 72 year old Democrat, who had flip flopped countless times, and has a history of cancer to boot, is there anyway that you would pick him over the 46 year old Republican who has less experience, but enough to unite people the world over. Do you really think that a 72 year old presidential nominee is "not dangerous" because he is old and beat up?
I'm a Democrat, so his being a Republican don't carry much weight with me. I simply think he is the most honest of the two candidates. did I really just say that about a Republican?



Perhaps some see his 86+ flip flops that people can compile on the internet of his Senate record as being a progressive Republican. Some might even see his divorce (flip flop?) from his crippled first wife to marry an heiress in her 20's as honorable. I can't, I see a liar and an adulterer who will do anything to achieve power, lying to his constituents faces along the way.

Both candidates have their fair share of flip-flops, and their individual relationships are really of no interest to me. I believe both candidate have also told their share of lies lately as well.


John McCain is like an ether. One day its his old age. Or his 'zany' sense of humor. Or his temper. But what about John McCain makes him capable to lead anymore now than when he was younger, and going against Bush? Is it the number of policies he has flip flopped on, is that what qualifies him? Or the 8 years of acting as Bush's mothpiece in the Senate? He wasn't qualified in 2000. What qualifies him anymore now?

It is certainly not his age...

He's much older and wiser, and he's as American as apple pie.


[edit on 5-8-2008 by LLoyd45]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by RRconservative
they start off with a liberal position, which is usually wrong in the first place


Liberal position can't possibly be wrong. I'm just waiting for an iron-fisted leader who will striclty enforce truly liberal views in this country.



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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I cannot believe people are still arguing over who's candidate is dumber or who's flip flops more. This is completely irrelevant in the system to which we have been subscribed to for far too long! Its time to evolve folks, lets move forward and stop fighting over something that TPTB want us to fight over.

Now back to the topic at hand. Simply loved the video! I found myself LoL quite a few times at the complete confusion in his eyes as to what he's talking about or how to say it. Yea, the gay marriage part was excellent, can't believe people even clapped. Great entertainment, these candidates and the political parties are utter nonsense.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by Asmus]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by LLoyd45
He initially said he supported gay ceremonies, but he never said they should be legally recognized. He didn't lie or change his stance in the second instance.


I noticed this too. Actually he was consistent in his position on gay marriage. Though his position is ignorant.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 01:02 AM
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as to stick to the topic of McCain Vs. McCain:

I would have voted for McCain in 2000 and 1996. If he was the same hero he was then, now, I would gladly vote for him. Sadly this is not the case. Everytime a republican catches my interests, they ruin it before they can EVER run for president.

Guess I'll keep voting democrat until the republicans can get themselves back on track.

something gives me the feeling I am assured I will be a life-long Democrat...









 
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