why it's frustrating being a christian

reply to post by heyo


My suggestion if you can't handle it? Don't be one. Simple solution

My problems w/ christianity or any of the religions has to do with the followers more than the gods. The followers are what scare me bc they believe that it is *their* way or no way.

reply to post by heyo


Hey brother, do not be frustrated, actually when people slander you, slander Jesus Christ, or slander Christianity you can rejoice!!!

John 15:18-19 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

Whenever I am slandered for my faith in Jesus Christ it just reinforces my faith that I'm on the right path. Don't get angry, thank God!

Pray for your enemies.

reply to post by heyo

Venting your frustrations? Turn the other cheek perhaps?

Oh, the other one I was thinking of "Let he without sin cast the first stone"

Hypocrisy, christians?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I grew up in a christian based family and never really understood the following: "Whenever I am slandered for my faith in Jesus Christ it just reinforces my faith that I'm on the right path."

How does this reinforce that you are on the right path?? I got more flack for questioning christianity, which by your logic, that should reinforce that I was on the right path in moving away from the short sided views of that faith??

Anytime I got flack for being a christian (which I no longer label myself as such), it was because I was imposing my views onto others, not because of what I believed.

If god is so great, why do christians feel the need to help him reveal himself?? Why does he need others to do his work for him?

I never understood these things until I started looking at it from an objective point of view. Now I realize that these things are human perspectives being pushed onto others. It is designed to fit a human agenda and hardly the Creator's agenda.

The 10 percent tithe is not something the Creator needs to test obedience, but rather something a human is doing to get you to hand over your hard earned cash w/out questioning. (this is just an example of the human agenda behind the "christian faith")

Many religions use the old "us versus them" persecution notion as a way of convincing little children that they're part of something special, and right, because so many people don't like them. The Jews, of course, are the best at that, and got a real boost from World War II in that regard. Christians have been playing the "Oh, poor me, we're so persecuted card ever since Imperial Rome." And you want to feel disliked? Try being a Muslim for a while.

But the basic fact of the matter is that in this life, on this world, everybody gets a chance to be hated for their ridiculous, unfounded beliefs. The hardest thing for any reasonable person of any religious persuasion to do is take a step back and admit, "Hey, you're right. I don't have any rational basis for my belief. And some people in the past have used this religion as an excuse to kill other people. Sorry about that."

Of course, the other religious people don't have any reasonable, rational reason for their beliefs either, but that's not the point.

Originally posted by heyo
I'd also like to hear about these "contradictions" that apparently run so rampant in the bible. I always hear references to them, but i haven't found any that stand up under scrutiny.....

Firstly let me say that this post is not meant as an attack to anyone because I also believe in God but there are a lot of problems with the Bible. There are so many contradictions that lead us in one of two conclusions:
1. The Bible is really a "God spoken book", therefore God is as described in the Bible (angry, liar and violent).
2. The Bible is written by men and it is bound to have mistakes in it, therefore one can choose what teachings to learn from it and what to walk away from.

Now I will try to prove to you that the Bible CANNOT be the word of God because it is filled with mistakes that the Almighty wouldn't.

King James Bible
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Here the Bible says that animals, birds and fish were created before man.
Just the next chapter of the same book tells us that animals were created after man...

Genesis 2 (KJ)

18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

This inconsistency though is not that important because it does not affect any of the teachings of how we should behave, so lets look at some other inconsistencies that may affect the teaching in a more direct way.

In the following quotes we see God asking his followers for sacrifice:

Genesis 15 (KJ)

9And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.

Exodus 20 (KJ)

24An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.

Exodus 29 (KJ)

11And thou shalt kill the bullock before the LORD, by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Leviticus 1 (KJ)

1And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,

2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.

continued...

reply to post by gnothiseauton

Numbers 28 (KJ)

1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, My offering, and my bread for my sacrifices made by fire, for a sweet savour unto me, shall ye observe to offer unto me in their due season.

Here he says he never did such a thing!

Jeremiah 7 (KJ)

22For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices

As for the God of the Bible beeing the God of love...

Deuteronomy 2 (KJ)

33And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.

34And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain

Deuteronomy 3 (KJ)

6And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.

Deuteronomy 7 (KJ)

2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them

1 Samuel 15 (KJ)

1Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD.

2Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

3Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

I can go on posting for ever on the contradictions in the Bible, but it does not mean I consider everything in it to be BS. The problems arise when people become fanatics and start going to war over arguments on how to interpret this book because they have been told that it is the word of God. I like to believe that God is much better than the one described in the Bible.

Again, I would like to say to heyo that this is not an attack, just pointing out that the Bible is not flowless.

gnothiseauton

reply to post by heyo


I understand your perspective in more ways than one. I was a Christian until about a year and a half ago. I had many days where I got so frustrated and worked up by non-believers talking negatively about my faith and my beliefs. Being a non-confrontational person, I respected what they had to say, did what I could to defend what I believed, and everyone was still friendly afterward. But that didn't stop me from being upset. So I know what you're dealing with.

Since deconverting I have managed to keep my change in beliefs secret from all but a few people. The experience I had in telling one of my closest friends was enough to make me keep my mouth shut about it. Not even my family knows. See, the person I used to consider one of my best friends wound up disowning me when he found out I was no longer Christian. I went from a person who he could share anything with and even cry with, to being many other things. He told me that I must have never believed in the first place, that I was no longer capable of forming acceptable morals and ideals, and that I should find answers to my questions by going to church and reading the Bible. I could continue with the wonderfully uplifting things he has thrown my way, but I'll spare you from that.

So, heyo, you're not alone. Despite the fact that my beliefs are on the other side of the proverbial fence from yours, I respect your beliefs and that your spiritual path differs from my own. I encourage you to hang in there. If there is one thing I have learned in life, it's that as long as you know what you believe, who you are, and what you desire, and that you're happy with those things, then what other people think of you does not matter.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by John_Q_Llama]

Numbers 28 (KJ)

1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, My offering, and my bread for my sacrifices made by fire, for a sweet savour unto me, shall ye observe to offer unto me in their due season.

Here he says he never did such a thing!

Jeremiah 7 (KJ)

22For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices

As for the God of the Bible beeing the God of love...

Deuteronomy 2 (KJ)

33And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.

34And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain

Deuteronomy 3 (KJ)

6And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.

Deuteronomy 7 (KJ)

2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them

1 Samuel 15 (KJ)

1Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD.

2Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

3Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

I can go on posting for ever on the contradictions in the Bible, but it does not mean I consider everything in it to be BS. The problems arise when people become fanatics and start going to war over arguments on how to interpret this book because they have been told that it is the word of God. I like to believe that God is much better than the one described in the Bible.

Again, I would like to say to heyo that this is not an attack, just pointing out that the Bible is not flowless.

reply to post by justamomma

How is it my problem that you don't understand?

To me it's simple, If I was of this world the world would accept me as one of it's own.

The world hated Jesus, even to the point of death, so If the world hates me because of my faith in Jesus then I can rejoice, they are treating me the exact same way as they did my savior before me.

It's not smart to rely on truth because it is the popular notion of the day. That's a logical fallacy. Appeal to popularity.

Truth is truth even if only 1 man agrees with it.

reply to post by heyo


If you can't take the heat for being a Christian, if it's too difficult for you maybe you shouldn't be one. People have taken heat for being Christian since the very beginning of Christianity, that's just the way it is, i don't think it's supposed to be easy. Your faith is just that your faith, what you believe in no matter what anyone says to you, or about you.


It may be easier for you to handle if you were able to understand why some people attack Christians. The same way you don't like it when people attack you for being Christian, is the same way that non Christians don't like being attacked because they aren't Christians.


There are a lot of "Christians" out there that want to force their religious beliefs down the throats of others. Honestly do you like it when somebody tries to force their beliefs upon you ? Some "Christians" condemn others because they don't live their lives according to that "Christians" beliefs. It is not a Christians place to judge, or condemn anyone, that is God's place.


I am a Christian, however i am not religious. I am looked down upon and judged by many church going Christians because i do not regularly attend church. Told by them that i am wrong for questioning some of the things that God has done, that i have no right to question God. Why can i not question God, didn't he give me free will ? I can question my parents, if God is my father why can i not question him ? Why is it wrong that i don't regularly attend church ? When i was confirmed my pastor told us that although he would prefer for us to attend church that we didn't have to, that we could commune with God anyplace we wanted to. Jesus himself said that we would not find him in the places made by man. Aren't i allowed to have the kind of relationship with my God that i choose to have, instead of the relationship that a book that was written by men mandates ?



I am not asking for answers to any of the questions that i have just put forth. They were just examples of some of the problems that i have with organized religion. And to try and help you understand why some people attack Christianity.


Basically believe what you believe and don't worry about what others have to say about it. Don't be a religious zealot and try to force your beliefs on others, If someone's gay let them be gay you don't have to like it, but it's not your place to judge if it's right or wrong. Give people the same respect for their life choices as you want them to give you for yours.


One thing i don't understand is your belief that Christianity is some kind of contest, or war that Christians have won ?

To comment on the idea that Christians have precipitated heinous crimes may I remind everyone that any person of any spiritual stripe can and have committed unspeakable acts. I have personally seen this many times over, I have seen 'shiny teeth-suv driving protestants' stab those around them in the back to profit themselves, I have seen a non-violent atheistic naturalist literally destroy another human being with their words and gossip, I have seen a Buddhist get drunk and start a bloody fight in a bar, I watched a Hindu destroy himself with drugs, lies and alcohol. Doing terrible things is not exclusive to any group, I became a Christian a few years ago because real, genuine Christ-following is admitting that you are not capable of being righteous and need God's grace (re: undeserved favor) to live, this is a free choice, I don't lord it over anyone nor do I look down on anyone who chooses differently. This is the key that so many people miss, Christ encountered many people who were not righteous or religious or even socially acceptable but he never condemned, never judged and always loved and reserved his harsh words for the religious people of his day (the ones who blindly followed rules to the letter rather than the spirit of the rules). My two cents, no flames please, not interested in a flame war.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by justamomma

 

The world hated Jesus, even to the point of death, so If the world hates me because of my faith in Jesus then I can rejoice, they are treating me the exact same way as they did my savior before me.

Saying that the world hated Jesus has never sat right with me. If we assume that the Biblical account of Christ's life is accurate, we can also assume then that he had followers who loved him. Furthermore, the Bible focuses on such a small geographical area and a small portion of the world that to say that the entire world hated Christ is just inaccurate. What about people who were living in Asia, Africa, America, and Europe at the time? They likely had no idea who Christ was when he was alive, so how could they all hate him? And of the people who are the focus of the Bible, only a small portion of them hated Christ. Unfortunately it was that small part who played the role in having him put to death.

The same goes for Christians today. Not everyone hates Christians. "Hate the sin not the sinner," is a great quote because, in a way, it applies here as well. It's not the people who are Christians that are disliked, it's the beliefs that Christians adhere to and spread which are not taken well.

Originally posted by John_Q_Llama

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by justamomma

 

The world hated Jesus, even to the point of death, so If the world hates me because of my faith in Jesus then I can rejoice, they are treating me the exact same way as they did my savior before me.

Saying that the world hated Jesus has never sat right with me. If we assume that the Biblical account of Christ's life is accurate, we can also assume then that he had followers who loved him.

When Jesus said that he WAS speaking to those that loved him in the world at that time, and to all the future Christians who would endure persecution in his name.

Furthermore, the Bible focuses on such a small geographical area and a small portion of the world that to say that the entire world hated Christ is just inaccurate.

Are we still assuming the Bible is accurate? If so, then Jesus as God in the flesh also knew this message would be read by millions for the next 2,000+ years as well. Assuming Christ is God, he knew you and I would be discussing it as we are right now.

What about people who were living in Asia, Africa, America, and Europe at the time? They likely had no idea who Christ was when he was alive, so how could they all hate him? And of the people who are the focus of the Bible, only a small portion of them hated Christ. Unfortunately it was that small part who played the role in having him put to death.

Christ said it for all His future followers as well, to remind them when they are discouraged, or worse tortured and put to death in His name, that they can have comfort knowing that what they are experiencing at that time he also endured. I find great solace when someone slanders me for talking about Jesus, I always remember those verses.

The same goes for Christians today. Not everyone hates Christians. "Hate the sin not the sinner," is a great quote because, in a way, it applies here as well. It's not the people who are Christians that are disliked, it's the beliefs that Christians adhere to and spread which are not taken well.

Well, of course not everyone hates Christians, we're only talking about those who do. But oftentimes, people hate Christians for reasons other than the things taught by Christ. Many times they hate Christians for atrocities they committed in the name of Christ. Even though when those people committed them they were NOT following Christ's teachings. Example: The crusades.

I coule very easily step in and say the phrase "If you think being a Christian is bad, try being a Pagan in this world, let alone the military as I am in"

The thing is, and this should ring true to many, being a Pagan and following Isis is the easiest thing have ever done and being a Christian should be the easiest thing you will do as well...IF you are true to what you believe.

What upsets me here is that persecution happens, because it does...to everyone. Athiests, Paganas, Christians, Jews...show me a single belief that hasn't been persecuted. I dare ya

What upsets me is how frighteningly easy people get shaken by other ideas. If someone spouts to you that Jesus isn't real, move on. Say your piece and move on. People have called me a goat-worshiper, a tree-worshiper...all sorts of inflammatory things. I say thank you for speaking with me and that's it. The reason I have this power is because I have no problems with my beliefs and no cracks in the foundation of my faith. I am sure somebody here right now is thinking that following an ancient Egyptian goddess is a one way bus ride to hades. Well...thanks and I will be happy to discuss it in a calm manner.

It feels to me that when a person is shaken that much it's because they don't have that strong a bond at that moment. Who cares if you are persecuted. Your belief is your strength. Yes I have bad bad days like the rest of you and we probably all have had crises in faith but if you are strong then it too shall pass and you will be stronger in faith for the experience.

Let it go people. If you are Christian and an athiest tells you that you are stupid, look to God, smile and revel in your truth, and move on. If you are athiest and are being preached to, don't make a federal case. Smile and revel in your truth and move on.

If people thought for a few seconds and turned the other cheek, so many problems would be avoided

Love you all

-Kyo

You make some good points here, and I have to admit you can definately write better than I do. I was irritated that day, and the thoughts conveyed onto the page were not the ones i was thinking. I think i'm of a better mind right now...
Okay I made the comparison of past christians doing things which current christians are blamed for to past white people doing things which current white people are blamed for. I think in both examples exemplify nonsense e.g. should i blame bill cause his grandad stole my car?

As for the 666 thing, it clearly states that it will be the mark of a man, and it will be 666. And as far as the catholics writing it, I have no real care if they did or not, and I have never been squeamish when reading or hearing about the council of nicea or whatever it was called. Most of the research seen points to the antichrist being tied to catholocism. In my head, if they wanted to change the writings in a way, they would make it so they don't seem like pawns of lucifer, a tast they've failed at miserably. My point was that people are using so called christians-ones who don't even read or adhere to, interpret, or even read the prophecies correctly-as examples of failed prophecies from the bible . e.g. bill thinks he's a prophet and predicts the end of the world and it doesn't happen, making christians seem like idiots, and prophecies seem like total lunacy. The lunacy people should see is how somebody (bill, in this instance) can claim to represent something he doesn't adhere to.
As for the imperialistic thing, it just frustrates me that we're (we=the west, if it is still a christian "entity" of sorts) the most current (and, as history repeats, self-destructing) dominating, if you will, power on earth. Of course it's inevitable, but it's frustrating that since no other powers, or none of large significance, were able to be imperialistic, it must mean christians were the only ones. I say were because rome's crumbling, if u will, and i'm just wondering who's gonna jump into the spotlight next.
oh, and peace, whether u like it or not.

A group of people of a common persuasion being blamed for the past I think is just absolute lunacy. Don't people realize how great the west has become, or has been until recently, under christian doctrines? I realize christians have done some bad things. I wouldn't despise these judgements from secular people so much if they would end it with something like " ya but they fought to free the slaves because of christian values" or "ya but they opened their doors to all those who want to come" or "ya but they loved it when koresh got wiped out". I just wish i could hear one non christian say they aren't christian, but they think christianity has paved the way for a better life for them.

I haven't forgotten who jesus was, or what he taught. There was no hate in what i wrote, it just wasn't well written....i think you're too worried about what the worldly think. That's just what I think, and I can and do say it without any malice at all.

reply to post by anxietydisorder


wow that was convincing