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"The Porn Myth"

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posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:33 AM

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Well maybe in the 90's you could tell what a porn queen looked like. But these days I think almost every type of girl is in porn. So you really can't really say a guy wants to date a girl who looks like a porn queen, because that girl could look like anything.

Well look, the OP clearly had a notion of a particular type, right? So my reply was to that. As to reality on the ground, I agree with you.

Yeah I know, sorry for the confusion, I guess I was really repling to the other post.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:39 AM
Ah porn versus the real women. What an interesting concept. I certainly don't think that women should think they have to compete with porn actresses. I think this subject has more to do with women's own problems with self image than what guys like to look at.

I myself look at porn, heck, one of the girls rotating through my avatar is a porn star. Do I think that women should have to compete with that? Heck no, I would be completely turned off by a lady if she acted like that.

I married my now ex wife because of her mind not her looks. She was a beautiful woman in my mind because she is so intelligent. At the time she was a tad bit overweight but looks weren't the reason I fell in love with her.

The next woman that I get involved with will also be intelligent.

[edit on 8/5/2008 by whatukno]

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:43 AM

The next woman that I get involved with will also be intelligent.

But you don't dispute that good looks can always help?

My wife is not Mrs Universe but she's a pleasure to look at, and I'm grateful for that.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:44 AM
reply to post by whatukno

Yes your right, women have nothing to compete with.

The women in porn are high in variety, so they don't have to comete with them physically.

The women in porn's personality in the real world, may work for one night stands or something.
But it's not something men "love" about women.

Also real women are "real" women, that's what men want.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:50 AM
I suspect this issue hinges on several aspects in this thread because we have people from different localities, different cultures, age groups, etc, involved.

I think none has touched on the one common factor in all of this.

It's about imagery. The fact that a person stands naked in front of a camera doesn't make it 'porn.' The actions that the person is undertaking, even if sexual in nature, doesn't necessarily consign it to the realm of pornography.

Pornography appears to be how an image is 'used' by the viewer, and it is this 'use' is a function of perception. Even, to some degree, it can be said to be a matter of perspective. This makes the 'pornographic' offense something of a moving target.

I am sure that we have all seen disagreements between what is and isn't pornographic. I suspect we have all seen content in mainstream magazines, TV shows, and movies which by all accounts could be considered pornography. And sometimes, we forget that pornography isn't simply a matter of sexual nature - because some people find sexuality in expressions that others do not (fetishism, bondage, automobile accidents, and other 'fixations').

Like any issue in cultural and social contention, intent, and perception are the key components to be resolved.

Many have related specifics and accounts of behavior that can not be judged by a blanket statement of 'blame porn' because people are very different from one another. One person's pleasure may not be so for you or I and it is a bit presumptuous to assume there can be one rule which applies to all scenarios.

Imagery is the key. We as 'civilized' people spend an inordinate amount time being told, and paying attention to, directives on how we should look and feel and even how we should relate to one another. Our images are often culled from what we found acceptable in the daily reminders of what constitutes 'sexy' or 'macho' or whatever. We are also warned off doing anything that might be 'forbidden' and 'degenerate' or 'deviant', although precious little is conveyed into the details of why that should be so.

Generally speaking, and for the sake of this argument, pornography is a label to identify the existence of imagery that invokes a sexual response in the viewer. Also, for the sake of argument, I would like to assert that I reference herein that which is neither physically nor psychologically destructive, and only as it applies to consenting adults.

Isn't it true that our self-image is OUR responsibility to nurture and develop? Why would voyeuristic enjoyment of such things as nudity and or sexual activities be threatening to the welfare of someone's self image? Would that threat only exists where self-image is a problem to begin with? There are many who can't handle the pressure of the image demands of our society, but no one seems to be offended by the likes of "Cosmo Girl" or "Maxim" or other such content provided by the advertisers for our 'enjoyment.'

I have often heard that pornography 'does' something to women (makes them objects, detracts from their personal worth, etc). But this is in fact the point of pornography, it not about the person, its about the image. The image that invokes a response from the viewer.

It' sad that we both reject what pornography is, yet we train our children to respond to it from early on in life. Just ask any 8 year old girl to 'strike a pose' for a picture and you will automatically see something, and perhaps recognize it, a sexual expression. Why this is will take well over 10,000 words to explore. For now, I hope my little contribution to this thread made some sense.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:53 AM
reply to post by buddhasystem

oh of course,
but it's not the only reason I date a woman, nor is it the primary reason I date someone. In general I won't even acknowledge a beautiful woman, too many problems with having to CONSTANTLY stroke an overinflated ego.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:00 AM
reply to post by _Phoenix_

Totally agreed, which is part of the issue (remember I'm NOT against porn, quite like some), but anything is available, just ask your local catholic priest. Some of the stuff out there is inappropriate, especially when viewed by the wrong person (the Bundys of this world) - although, I think if people are going to commit extreme acts they may be influenced by what they view, it doesn't follow that they did that because of what they were viewing, most likely they'd be committing terrible acts in a different way.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:03 AM

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
The women in porn's personality in the real world, may work for one night stands or something.
But it's not something men "love" about women.

Also real women are "real" women, that's what men want.

I was thinking about this but wasn't sure how to work it into the thread until your comment.

Not to be crude but there is an old saying Men don't marry their whores. I've seen a repeat pattern pretty much since high school. Men generally, based on my observation, want 'sex bunny' girlfriends but wholesome and solid women as wives. I remember the stark difference between high school boys and college men. In high school it seemed the girls who 'put out' were asked out left and right while us 'prudes' were usually at home on a Saturday night or out with our fellow goody two shoes female friends.

But in college it was a whole other story- at least where I attended university. Around that age, men start looking for wives instead of a quick romp in the sack so they become more interested in quality and substance.

Even as an adult in the dating scene it was so easy to spot the shallow ambitions of a man wanting a girlfriend and a man looking for a wife.

Right or wrong, that has been my observation over the past 15 years or so. Once you are looking for a lifetime companion, your requirements are raised from the standards of just 'sex' to intelligence, parent potential, emotional support, companionship, etc.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:11 AM
eww.. who ever thought that a woman has to be a porn queen is being misled. I don't want an oversexed, overused whore to marry. I want a decent chick with her own individual morals and belief. Who will put family first when it needs to be first. I don't think I am old fashion when I ask for these things because I will greatly fit my end of the bargain to this deal.
I want a girl who loves me, who has a desire for me, who needs me. In return I will love this girl, I will desire her, I will need her..

[edit on 5-8-2008 by nahsik]

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:16 AM
reply to post by Maxmars

Hey, totally agreed (that was what I was getting at myself). We're all objectified in some way, ie what we're prepared to do to earn money, self-image, consumerism etc all come into this - although I don't think there's ever really been a "price" on the individual.

As for blaming porn - balls, totally disagree, blame society yeah, blame bad parenting, a lack of moral education - there are so many parallels this argument draws (guns for instance).

A few more thoughts on plastic/cosmetic surgery...

If someones quality of life is lessened because of their self-image, why shouldn't they change themselves. I realise this can (like anything else) be taken to harmful extremes, but a bit of nip and tuck to make you happier, why not - how many of us are tattooed, pierced etc. It just seems symptomatic of the times we live in that people are more interested in the external over the internal, although so saying make-up, wigs, perfume have all been around for 100s of years as have things like scarification, tattooing etc. These all have purpose in society, everyone on some level strives to be the Alpha, easily acheivable ways of doing this are in how we dress and show ourselves to the rest of society.

edit to add:

an old quote I've heard about what a man wants is:
A whore in the bedroom
A saint to his friends
and his mother in the kitchen.

Not that I agree with this entirely, but a saint to your friends is useful and nice...

[edit on 5-8-2008 by jokei]

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:27 AM

Originally posted by kosmicjack
I am interested to know if men think this is an accurate portrayal of the current situation.

Most people do not seem to understand what drives men sexually.

We have been for millions of years had to have multiple partners to keep the race alive. We were the minority because of death through hunting war and competition. We had to bed many women in the tribe and this became hardwired.

Now the past few thousand years we have been force to be monogamous. After millions of years being hardwired for multiple partners and having to be visually stimulated we become disinterested even with the hottest women in the world after a period of time. Our instinct drives us to look for variety.

So then modern porn comes along and it shortcuts the hardwired mind for variety.

It is what it is.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:39 AM

Originally posted by AshleyD
Once you are looking for a lifetime companion, your requirements are raised from the standards of just 'sex' to intelligence, parent potential, emotional support, companionship, etc.

I'm pretty sure many men look for all that in short term relationships too, but yes your right some men probably do that only when looking for a lifetime companion.
Some men only look for sex, but a lot of men look for personality too, I'm pretty sure a lot of men here would agree that hanging around with a really annoying girl you don't like just for sex would be pretty annoying. To truly have fun you gotta like all her aspects, personality intelligence etc.

By the way
you sound like someone perfect, pretty, intelligent and a great personality.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by _Phoenix_]

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:41 AM
...and another quote "behind every successful woman, is a man bored shizzless of ****ing her". Although I'm all for monogamy.

Thing is I do think genetics have a lot to answer for too in this debate, especially as I'm into the idea of evolution. Just because we were tribal beings, we've not finished evolving, why not keep working on it, maybe we could even stop fighting amongst ourselves.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:51 AM
the first thing that occoured to me when i saw this thread is that the only real difference between women in porno and women in real life is that women in porn look like they're actually good in bed.

they can be any shape or size these days, looks have nothing got to do with it, nor does the script, in real life "come on big boy" would make most of us giggle at best, the only thing separating them from real life women is the fact that they seem to enjoy pleasing their partner for its own sake where most women i've encountered seem to see it as a quid pro quo transaction.

actually, it's not just the quid pro quo aspect, quid pro quo is fine and dandy if the girls can keep up their end of the bargain, but the truth is, most of them can't.

they don't know how to use their hands or mouth and if they use anything else they're only ever interested in pleasing themselves. there's never a build up from their end because guys don't need it and if the guy suggests there should be he's ruining the flow of things.

in truth girls, the porn is an addition to whats really going on, your man is pleasing himself because your just not able.
believe me, there isn't a man alive who'ld choose a hand shandy over a woman who knew what she was doing.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:52 AM
reply to post by kosmicjack

From this female's perspective:

I have never minded porn- so long as it is with adult humans, then it is fine by me. My husband has a rather proud collection of porn magazines but only a few DVD's. He used to have a large VHS collection.

Anyway, it has never bothered me-- not with past boyfriends and not with my husband.

The rule of my house, mutually agreed upon by my husband and myself is this: it doesn't matter where you get your appetite from, so long as you eat dinner at home.

I think it is normal and even healthy to fantasize about other people, and porn creates fantasies. I personally don't get anything from porn--I think that fake boobs look gross and the scenes are silly to the point of being dumb-- but that's just me. I fantasize about actors and singers I see on tv, and even a few men I know in life, but it never gets past a fantasy.

Now here is my point: because it never bothered me that my husband likes porn, because I drove to the adult stores with him, because I bought him DVD's for his birthday, and because I never made it a shameful or forbidden thing for him...he has lost interest in porn. He still thumbs through a magazine now and again, but he says it isn't the same anymore, lol. Now that he isn't rebelling, porn has lost a lot of it's appeal.

So perhaps the same can be said for others? The true attraction to it is that it has to be hidden, it has to be a secret? The porn watcher will get in trouble if he or she is caught?

I don't know, but when I look at the women in porn movies, I don't feel intimidated and I don't feel inadequate. I'm chubby, but I love my body and married a man who loves my body, too.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 12:03 PM
Good for you Alora...

fhgn, bloody caps lock!!!

I've never hidden the fact I like porn in any of my relationships, the 2 decent long-term relationships I've been in, it wasn't a problem and I always ate dinner at home and gladly so.

I'd happily be with a non-pornstar woman, so long as she was intelligent and we had a spark.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 12:14 PM

Originally posted by kosmicjack
I know many of my friends have felt the detrimental effects of porn in their relationships. I am also wondering about how this could possibly be reversed.

Get them to make a porn movie and give it to their other half.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 12:25 PM

Originally posted by kosmicjackSo many times on T.V. or in a movie the couples are horribly inequitable. Gorgeous girl. Dumpy guy. It's infuriating. As if just any average joe can pick up a hot chick. Has anyone else noticed this

Actually most women I've seen go for guys that I would consider ugly. I consider myself a good looking guy and women demand more than just looks, a persona can trump looks any day. With us men, looks can trump persona any day....I'm pretty shallow, but I do appreciate smart women. I just want a woman who takes care of herself, she doesn't have to look like a super model...but not being obese and looking presentable is a must.

Also, breast implants are nasty, and plastic surgery allows women to match their "outside" with their "inside" they can both be fake

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 12:29 PM
reply to post by kosmicjack

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I can say right now that I agree with every word of the article. I made a post in a thread a while back which is completely germane to this thread so I'll cut and paste it here, and then I'll be back with a reply to the replies. Thanks for the thread, kosmic. S+F.

"I'm going to say something and most of you are probably not going to like it. I think that the biggest threat to the sanctity of marriage is pornography. I say this for several reasons.

1) Someone mentioned earlier the modern obsession with instant gratification...I think porn just feeds on this problem. For some porn can become a full blown addiction and the results aren't just that men aren't attracted to their wives anymore, but that they don't even bother to interact with them in other ways, like any other type of addict might.

2) Porn has seriously, seriously skewed our culture's view of what a woman is supposed to be. I'm not saying all men, but I am saying that I think men in the 18-30 age range who grew up with the internet and any kind of porn right at their fingertips, along with older men who have made up for lost time (lol) think that deep down inside all women are some kind of porn kitten. Maybe not consciously, but definitely unconsciously they think that women want to be sprayed in the face or some other thing that may not feel good but for some reason looks good on video. And this makes them fail not only to please their wives intimately, but also to connect with them in other intimate, nonsexual ways.

3) Men who deal with pornography on a regular basis have also forgotten what a woman is supposed to look like. (Most) Women who are not in the adult industry do not look like liposucked, collagen injected, fake boobed hookers. Most women have some dimples, or some wrinkles, or some freckles, or some other thing that according to the advertising/media bombardment is simply unacceptable. But if a man is becoming aroused on an increasingly frequent basis only by women who have more bodywork done than a low rider, then of course they aren't going to waste their time trying to cultivate a meaningful relationship with a normal looking woman.

4) Porn culture isn't just relegated to dirty movies and magazines. It's all over tv, movies, print, and advertisements in every medium. If a man is titilated by the (I'll say it nicely) Vampish sort of woman, and what man is not?, all he has to do is turn on cable, a recent hollywood movie, or open any sort of "men's" magazine with cars or fitness or whatever and he can see all the eye makeup and skin that the law will allow. And let's not leave out music videos, i.e. stripper training videos.

5)A long time ago in my grandparents' generation, before porn was available at the click of a mouse, and before it was even available in seedy theatres, people had a lot fewer sexual partners. No, not everyone was a virgin when they got married like some would have us believe. But, lots of people were, and the ones that weren't didn't go a-whoring with 30, 40, 50+ partners before they did tie the knot. And here's my biggest point: before porn was so readily available, there wasn't this crazy expectation for sex to be a mind blowing experience every time. Men didn't expect their wives to want to do all the things they've seen done in videos. There wasn't a constant comparison of your wife to Jenna Jameson in your mind. I think because of this comparison and expectation, men are always going to think that there is someone hotter who can rock their world better. A good friend of mine has told me he wishes he'd never seen a porn because no woman could ever live up to the height of the bar set in his mind by pornography, and I commend his honesty and introspection.

I think that this issue has to be examined on a macro level. I don't think that pornography is wrong per se, but it does have an effect on and in my opinion does cause problems in society. It may not ruin every marriage, but if it ruins enough then society suffers, much in the way that I don't disagree with an individual's right to choose to do drugs, but society is made up of individuals, and their drug use does have an effect on society.

I'm not laying every failed marriage at the foot of the husbands. I'm not some kind of feminazi who wants to blame men for all the problems. I think women are effected as well by a need for instant gratification and other marital issues. I'm only presenting one of the main reasons I think that over half of marriages fail and the other half seem to have lots of problems."

This is from Karlhungis' thread What happened to the sanctity of marriage?

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 12:49 PM
reply to post by sc2099

What an excellent, well-thought-out post. Thanks. There have been lots of great contributions and I have to say I am not surprised by the support porn has received in the replies. The stats posted support that.

Nothing is wrong with two consenting adults enjoying themselves and using porn to enhance the experience. It's just that it hasn't seemed to stop there. It permeates every aspect of our culture, as you said. Sex, like any easily available commodity, has lost it's value.

I'm surprised that more members haven't admitted to the detrimental effects of porn in their lives. I see it everyday as I work with some truly beautiful and intelligent women who feel the need to subjugate themselves and their own needs and desires just to get a man's attention and hold it.

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