"The Porn Myth"

Originally posted by DuneKnight
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

i think u r confusing sexual roles and these roles usually complement each other. basically what u r saying is that women arent watching porn as much as men because they dont need it, they can have what they are looking for right of the bat, but then why are women today most depressed and frustrated then? if things are that easy for women as u claim then why the problem that exists. is it because men confine them?
well no its because women dont come with a self-manual; even though there are massive opportunities for women, all these choices can create a dilemma whilst guys usually just end up with whoever appreciates them. the roles for women arent pre-defined anymore so they have to start from the ground up until they realize who they are. same thing with sex, ive heard that in order for women to like sex they have to know what they want first. and i guess with great power comes great responsibility.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by DuneKnight]

Well A: for starters they are world wide forced to diminish their sexuality out of fear of male reprisal...even in the United States Today...

A woman branded a slut... is bad news... it's a total double standard if a guy picks up a girl every night he goes out he's a stud...

a woman does that vice versa ...she's a pig... so women I Know...absolutely repress alot of their urges and deal with alot of sexual guilt and stress...

and just like a guy won't get it up under heavy stress...alot of women can't orgasm either

Men simply refuse to face what I know is true and it's science not conjecture...women are more than us built to be, nonmonogamous, have a higher sex drive over the longer span of a lifetime and actually suffer more physically and emotionally without it than we do...

and... guys completely Freak out over the subject and live in denial of it....

Why do they have mor sexual dysfunction? because they aren't leading sexually natural lives and... a woman can't in most cases even begin to look a guy she cares for in the eye and say..."I need more"

Well... not entirely true, there is a wealth of sex toys for women now and... alot of our society has woken up to womens sexual needs...

but still, the majority of men can't handle it...

I have a good friend, very well educated...told me just a couple of weeks back, I could never let my wife use a dildo and we had a big fight about it....

and I say... (to myself not to him) bro... she loves you just giver her the helping urrr hand... she needs lol

Women don't watch as much porn...lol, because if your average guy saw what she wanted and got into he would flip his friggin lid...

and it's a joke man... because the biggest thing in porn...no 1 is 2 women and a guy... and that's so unrealistic for sexual satisfaction unless the women help each other out compared to 2 guys and a woman lol...

But hahahahah, bring that one up around a bunch of guys friends...

"yeah me and synthia picked up a guy for her last week, it really made her hot"

Lol...they will, out of fear and sexual denial... ban you 99% of the time...you;d be GAY... the universal solution for keeping men in obiendience with male norms... call a guy gay... he wears cologne "that's gay"... he is open in any way.... "that's gay dude"

so guys also are petrified...

and the whole thing is a sexual untruth... that's what set me off on this in the first place... Guy bragging about his 7 orgasms... horray, you know? Nothing eronal..I like most everybody... but it's a disservice to women to not realize... they have the sexual thing hands down...on every level, we don't even come close...

and it scares the crap out of most of us... and it shouldn't... and that pressure to conform and be "all that" and never be realistic about a womans sexuality...comes from...Men, not women, it's not a problem they (men) create...

but yeah that 30% that don't orgasm...a 1/2 billion women in the mideast who can't take a scarf off their face, a Million or so in darfur raped and killed... it is them that suffers grievously for that insecurity.

and... it doesn't make life better for us...to be afraid of womens true sexuality, it makes it worse... repressing them, wanting them to be docile leads to nothing good for anyone...

Because, sexually disatisfied woem become bitter...ugly creatures... they dry up and not in a physical sense... imho... it throws everything off balance makes them crave material satisfaction just like us when they aren't normally that way... it makes the world lopsided...

reply to post by sir_chancealot



Russia, Ukraine, Thailand, other poor asian countries. Yup, poor women that are frequently seen on "mail order bride" sites. Guys can go to those countries on a "tour" and have a dozen women to interview.

Those countries have a lot of poor women that offer themselves to Americans as brides. But hey, its not that they want to move to the US or other countries with better economies....nahhh....its because they just find all American men to be sooo darn attractive!

How about those "non-feminized" countries with a high standard of living huh? Japan, Middle East, etc... Does it work there same way there? LOL. No it doesn't.

reply to post by ADisbeliever



Okay here is some advice for you. You need to learn how to flirt, and that means practice. Flirting is not always sexual, it is giving others attention and making them feel good. You do not want to practice this on just "the girls you like" because you will be nervous and there are not that many opportunities.

If you are serious and you want to improve your skills this is what you should do. Everyday when you leave the house, make it a POINT to engage 3 women. Any woman anywhere. Make small talk and be friendly with them. I do NOT mean hot girls, I mean females in general. The not so hot girls in school (keep it asexual so they don't get the wrong idea) the soccer moms in line at the grocery store, etc... Really push yourself and learn how to talk to all sorts of women. When you talk to them do it with the intention of making them feel good in some way, it is not about YOU it is about them, learn how to engage and give off good energy.

By doing this you will hone your social skills and when you WANT to start a conversation with the "hot girl" it will be a lot easier for you. Illusions pointed out "don't be goal oriented" and the "best players can seem like nice guys". The best players actually DO like women, not just the hot chicks but typically women in general. Women can subconsciously tell when men truly love their gender in every way (not just in bed) and women like that. Often those guys love women so much, and women like them so much, well it becomse a bit excessive.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

You, my friend, are probably just shyer than average, and so it feels uncomfortable to you.

That's an understatement.

I've always been quiet my whole life.

Even around other guys. I actually just got back from breakfast with a bunch of coworkers who invited me, all guys. I basically sat there at the table for 2 hours, and said only like 3 words.

that's pretty much how I've always been.


After being around guys for a while I start opeining up to them and they are my buddies.

But girls? No chance. I just freeze up and can't even say a single word to them.

I wish there was a cure to this, or someone ccould train me .

Originally posted by Sonya610
reply to post by ADisbeliever

 

Okay here is some advice for you. You need to learn how to flirt, and that means practice. Flirting is not always sexual, it is giving others attention and making them feel good. You do not want to practice this on just "the girls you like" because you will be nervous and there are not that many opportunities.

If you are serious and you want to improve your skills this is what you should do. Everyday when you leave the house, make it a POINT to engage 3 women. Any woman anywhere. Make small talk and be friendly with them. I do NOT mean hot girls, I mean females in general. The not so hot girls in school (keep it asexual so they don't get the wrong idea) the soccer moms in line at the grocery store, etc... Really push yourself and learn how to talk to all sorts of women. When you talk to them do it with the intention of making them feel good in some way, it is not about YOU it is about them, learn how to engage and give off good energy.

By doing this you will hone your social skills and when you WANT to start a conversation with the "hot girl" it will be a lot easier for you. Illusions pointed out "don't be goal oriented" and the "best players can seem like nice guys". The best players actually DO like women, not just the hot chicks but typically women in general. Women can subconsciously tell when men truly love their gender in every way (not just in bed) and women like that. Often those guys love women so much, and women like them so much, well it becomse a bit excessive.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Sonya610]

thx for the advice.

Well I would have no problem talking with 3 women a day - but I just don't know what to say. Like I can stand behind a woman/girl in line at the grocery store as you said, a soccer mom. I want to talk to her, but I just don't know what to say.

No words ever come to my head, and next thing I know they are gone and the opportunity is gone.

Originally posted by ADisbeliever
Well I would have no problem talking with 3 women a day - but I just don't know what to say. Like I can stand behind a woman/girl in line at the grocery store as you said, a soccer mom. I want to talk to her, but I just don't know what to say.

No words ever come to my head, and next thing I know they are gone and the opportunity is gone.

That why you need practice. If you have a hard time with soccer moms the georgious classmate will be 10 times harder.

There is always something to say. At the grocery store you can comment on some food item, ask them how to cook it. Or in line make some comment about the weather. Learn to utter pointless ramblings. Sure some won't have anything to say, but some will. Talk to the cashier as well (even if its a guy, its a stranger, make pointless small talk i.e. "wow...its busy today, or its quiet, whatever").

The fact you "don't have anything to say" is the reason you need to work on it and learn to THINK of something to say.

Ok let me clarify on the eye contact comment earlier.

No I did not mean STARE at women haha.

You just gotta listen to your instict, if a girl appears to like you, and you talk to her, she usually starts the eye contact, you simply have to smile and keep that eye contact, she sets the limit, and how comfortable she is with you looking into her eyes, you just gotta read that.

You could be talking about the weather, while in the meantime it's like the both of you are making eye contact love.

After getting to know her, she could be walking pass in a crowded room, and when she spots you, smile and look into her eyes and she smiles back.
Little things like that make the connection deeper and deeper.

So you see there are many other things to making a connection with a woman along with the little things like body language and eye contact, if she likes you, you have to try and read her, and go along with it. All this starts to come naturally the more you talk to women, not just women you like, ANY woman, make yourself learn how to charm any woman, make her smile etc.

Like Sonya says, practice small talk and making random women like you, at first it's hard, but you will start to learn it as instinct.

She's right about loving all women part, a real player doesn't just care about the sex with women he finds attractive part, because he likes all women, and so he loves talking, giving and getting attention from all women, hot or not.


Just don't stare at her lol.




[edit on 19-8-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by ADisbeliever

I wish there was a cure to this, or someone ccould train me .

There kind of IS a cure for shyness.

When you catch yourself feeling shy, notice who you are thinking about.

Hint: its you.

Take a couple deep breaths and look at the OTHER person, watch what they are doing, look at their face, do they look tired, happy, nervous, sad, etc?

One of the best ways to get over shyness is to develop a genuine interest in others. Think about how they are feeling, notice if they need the door opened cause their hands are full, notice if they look like they could use a smile, a kind word. Notice if they look mad, then stay the heck away.

I know that shy people dont think of it this way, but shyness in a sense is selfish. You are worried about how YOU will be viewed, if YOU will be rejected, if they will like YOU, if YOU will say something stupid. Shyness, in a sense, is a mental belief about yourself that sort of repeats over and over and gets louder when you are in social situations. It draws all your focus to that belief and your own actions. One of the reasons shy people get reinforcement for their shyness, and have a hard time relating is that they are so busy worrying what the other person thinks about them that they are not actually reading the social clues the other person is actually giving them. People like people who are paying attention to them, rather than focusing on themselves. Male or female. We all do.


Practice turning it around. Know that NO ONE likes to be rejected, NO ONE wants to say something dumb, NO ONE wants to be disliked. Develop more empathy. Practice getting outside your thoughts about yourself, and how others will feel about you, and become generous in offering kindnesses to others. If you cant think of things to say to someone, then you really arent paying attention to them. If you watch someone carefully, you will notice enough about them to say something to them that is relevant to what they are thinking.

"You look tired, need a hand?" "Here, let me get that door for you, thats a lot of books."

Comments about a piece of jewelry, "Is that a real turquoise?" Or T-Shirt, "I love that band." The best way to make sure you are talking about something another person wants to talk about is to talk about them, what they are feeling, what they are thinking, what they are interested in.

Anyway, practice. Make the effort first to really watch people, not while thinking about what YOU want from them, or how they will react to you, but practice really noticing the clues about their mental state, their mood, their likes and dislikes. This will give you a bank of ideas to draw from when you do go up and say something. Be curious about them. Wonder about them. That leads to lots of questions.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Anyway, practice. Make the effort first to really watch people, not while thinking about what YOU want from them, or how they will react to you, but practice really noticing the clues about their mental state, their mood, their likes and dislikes.

As usual Illusion is right as is Phoenix. I sometimes suspect Phoenix would have great player potential, he truly does like women, but he would probably feel too guilty about their feelings to be a hardcore player.

I remember reading something...was about the definition of a gentlemen (I think it was from the victorian era).

Anyways, it said a true gentlmen walks into a room and makes the OTHER the priority. They don't worry about how they appear, or if they are saying something to make themselves seem smart, they don't focus on themselves at all, they focus on the comfort of others.

They make conversation and engage people that are shy or alone in the crowd, or give compliments to lift the esteem of those that look unsure, or compliment the food to give the hostess a boost. They are always thinking of how others feel first and foremost. They focus on giving, not receiving.

Edit -- I am not suggesting overt compliments are the way to go especially with hot girls, but its the thought that counts. The energy.


[edit on 19-8-2008 by Sonya610]

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610


As usual Illusion is right as is Phoenix. I sometimes suspect Phoenix would have great player potential, he truly does like women, but he would probably feel too guilty about their feelings to be a hardcore player.

You may be right, sometimes I feel like if I didn't care about anything, I could accomplish anything.
I think most of the people at top in this world are probably the least empathetic of people, because it's easier for them to accomplish what they want without worries.

The world is full of actors in a movie called life, sometimes you gotta play the part to get the part?...............haha that confused me a bit.



[edit on 19-8-2008 by _Phoenix_]

# pornstars!!!
Real women is where it's at!!!!

Originally posted by Sonya610
Anyways, it said a true gentlmen walks into a room and makes the OTHER the priority. They don't worry about how they appear, or if they are saying something to make themselves seem smart, they don't focus on themselves at all, they focus on the comfort of others.

They make conversation and engage people that are shy or alone in the crowd, or give compliments to lift the esteem of those that look unsure, or compliment the food to give the hostess a boost. They are always thinking of how others feel first and foremost. They focus on giving, not receiving.

screw it, thats never gonna be me. i could care less about people. plus this gentlemen sounds like a gofer preoccupied with the comfort of people while the real players make game.
if u really want to strike a conversation with a hot girl u can go with the "Seinfeld" factor. you know when jerry and george have discussions about absurd obvious and random things; do that, bring up an absurd silly childish topic and theorize the sh*t out of it. say anything like how come buildings are always perfectly straight? or why cant lunch time be at two? or why do shops always buy more than they can sell? or why do people have ringtones when they can put it on silence?- stuff like that. believe me it works if done right.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by DuneKnight]

Originally posted by DuneKnight
plus this gentlemen sounds like a gofer preoccupied with the comfort of people while the real players make game.

I posted it as an example of focusing on OTHERS, whether its flirting or whatever, instead of just focusing on self.

And I said it was from the Victorian age, they weren't hitting on girls or trying to be players, it was about social grace.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by DuneKnight
plus this gentlemen sounds like a gofer preoccupied with the comfort of people while the real players make game.

I posted it as an example of focusing on OTHERS, whether its flirting or whatever, instead of just focusing on self.

And I said it was from the Victorian age, they weren't hitting on girls or trying to be players, it was about social grace.

yeah i get what u mean, i also read something from the Victorian Age instructing people on orgy etiquette. it was basically the same thing you said about what a true gentlemen is, but with a different backdrop lol.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
I thought this was a fantastic article by Naomi Wolfe on the surprising effect of porn on our society. It touches on issues of beauty, intimacy and power, as well as the constantly raised bar of sexual imagery. I am interested to know if men think this is an accurate portrayal of the current situation. As a woman, I know many of my friends have felt the detrimental effects of porn in their relationships. I am also wondering about how this could possibly be reversed. Will people become just utterly saturated with it? Will it eventually become passé? I hope so.

I and my girlfriend both enjoy porn together. In fact porn is a lot more fun when watched with my girlfriend, exciting almost. On its own porn is getting very stale and repetitive for my taste. I mostly watch it to satisfy my never ending curiosity and to accomplish a quick orgasm when my partner is not present.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by SilentGem]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

You may be right, sometimes I feel like if I didn't care about anything, I could accomplish anything.
I think most of the people at top in this world are probably the least empathetic of people, because it's easier for them to accomplish what they want without worries.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by _Phoenix_]

You have to ask yourself "the top" of what?

We define success to ourselves. If being rich=success to you, then yes, climbing all over people and doing whatever it takes without any empathy may make you successful.

If being happy=success, then the formula may be very, very different.

(Or being noble, or developing spiritually, or being intelligent, etc.)

Before you can become a success at anything, you first have to figure out what you really feel is important in life. You have to define success for yourself. There are quite a few rich people who are very unhappy. (Amy Winehouse?) There are lots of very wealthy people who spend the entirety of their lives engaging in a slow form of suicide, drinking to forget, drugs, spending crazily hoping the next thing they buy will make them feel good, etc. Of course the same can be said of many poor people. The point is not that being rich is always going to make you unhappy, only that it is not a guarantee for a successful life.

You cant let society, or any other person define success for you. Thats the real wisdom in your statement that; "I feel like if I didn't care about anything, I could accomplish anything." If you care about what you internally "know" is important to YOU, and you do not waste your time caring what other people say is important, you CAN be a great success.

If you care about what you internally "know" is important to YOU, and you do not waste your time caring what other people say is important, you CAN be a great success.

So True! If you follow what others tell you to believe or how to believe about things then you are wasting the mind that was given to you that you should put to use in establishing your own thoughts.

It must not have too much of a numbing effect
pornography has existed for a long long long long long long time


we're still here


you dont hear anyone complainin about that?

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

The REAL problem is the women who are only attracted to the "porn star" type guy and use these kinds of feminist arguments in retaliation...

i can prove to you that this problem started with a woman



woman have "the power" if you know what i mean

A man will do anything to be a part of that
If a beautiful woman said "go eat that dog turd and you can have some"


well....guess what


Pornography - for MOST MEN - is a means of personal satisfaction.

Women who complain about it have some hidden issues of their own

(in my honest opinion...and no offense)

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


I can assure you that THAT assumption is not true.

The men in porn are as far as is humanly possible from the men I personally am attracted to.

In fact, when I was commenting to a male friend on how singularly unappealing male porn stars are to me and my female friends, he said;

"Well thats the point. Guys like to believe that any old schmo just sitting around doing nothing and not trying at all can have beautiful women just throw themselves at them and be willing to do whatever they want. Show up to deliver a pizza? Boom! Sex! Show up to fix a sink with your butt crack hanging out? Boom! Sex! Three guys hanging out watching football and some girl shows up to take a survey? Boom! Sex for all of you!"

Lol. I hardly think that this is the female fantasy of the perfect guy. And if you think it is, that could explain your frustration with us.

Edit to add;

If women have "the power" as you phrase it, it is simple economics. Supply and demand. Many males seem to have an obsession with sex that most of the women I know simply do not share. It isnt that we dont like it, but that it comprises less than 1% of our daily thinking. In fact, there are days when it never crosses my mind at all, I am totally focused on other things. Many men seem to think of it on at least a daily basis and we have all likely seen those studies that say that males can think of sex every few minutes. When you have that sort of inequity in supply and demand, you are going to have a "high price" being paid by those who have the high demand.

You can blame it all on women, and accuse us of deliberately creating a power imbalance, or, you COULD see it as the natural outcome of your own wanting sex more and more frequently than most of us do. Who is to blame? Well, if you ask many men, we are. If you ask many women, men are. Maybe no one is to blame, it is just the way it is.

Interestingly enough, when there is a rare female who has a high sex drive and wants a lot of sex with a lot of men, I hear a good portion of the criticism of her coming from................men. How easy she is, how she has done every one, slut, etc. What exactly do you really want? Sure some women criticize those kinds of females too, but how would we even know how easy she was if men werent telling us? Lol. Seems to me if you guys wanted easier access to sex you would learn to keep your mouths shut and not put down and berate the few females willing to give it up at the drop of a dime.


I personally, think that porn exists because it helps meet the excess demand males have for sex above and beyond the supply we females are willing to provide. I think it is a good thing in that regard. My only problem with it is when some people, male and female, forget that this is fantasy fulfillment, and the behaviors in porn videos have little bearing on real male female interactions.

As always, not all women feel this way, and not all men have such high sex drives. I personally have never known a female who thinks about sex constantly or even really, really, frequently but I am sure they do exist. And I DO know some guys who do not think of sex every couple of minutes.



[edit on 21-8-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]