"The Porn Myth"

First. All women are not the same.

Second. All women are not the same.

Third. All women are not the same.

Memorize those three points, and you are on your way to a relationship.

Also, in relation to Sir_Chancelots theory that you can only find a women who will love you in the third world. Ignore that. It isnt true. If you want to date a foreign woman, if accents and exotic looks are what do it for you..knock yourself out. But it isnt necessary, and, like in strip clubs, not all women who come up to you and act like they like you actually DO like you. Sometimes, it is an act, and they are interested in you for other personal reasons that may not be what you would hope. Not always, but it is something to remember.

originally posted by ADisbeliever

So I should just randomly stare at girls in my class who are attractive, but smile while I do it? Then gauge their reactions?

Try relaxing and not focusing on the end result. Try......and this is a stretch..being yourself. Not all girls are going to like you. (Not because of anything wrong with you, but because no one appeals to everyone) But, if you are yourself, the girls who do like you, will really like you. A girl smiling back doesnt mean she likes you in a dating way, it could just mean she is friendly. Be friendly back. Dont be goal oriented. Get to know the girls in your class in general. Ask non-mating school related questions. "Do you mind if I see your notes?" "I really liked when the instructor said....." "When is the assignment due?" Break the ice by being casual and friendly, dont assume you can dive right and and tell if they would go out with you. Importantly, find out if YOU like THEM. It isnt all about looks you know. A really pretty girl might be a real jerk, and the more average looking girl next to her might be the most fun girl ever. Get to know them. Casually.

Nothing is less attractive than desperation. In either gender. And pushy, rushy, fumbly, looks desperate. If you have a long history of not doing well with women, take 6 months, forget about scoring, and get comfortable just talking to them. All of them. Old, young, pretty, homely, etc. Then at least when you are ready to try to ask someone out, you wont be babbling.

originally posted by ADisbeliever

When is the right time to stare at them? When the professor is lecturing, or the room is quiet? Should I just stare at them for minutes on end, waiting until they notice me, and then smile when they look at me? Or should I wait until they look at me first, then look at them and smile back?

Is my opinion that you should talk to a classmate casually first. If they are "short" with you and do not smile at you when you say "thank you" after you ask them some class related question, you are out. If it feels like a cold shoulder and you are just being casual, it is a cold shoulder. She is trying to tell you not to try. Women dont like having to reject guys verbally anymore than you like to hear it. (Usually, sadists aside) We try to give you ample clues to STOP TRYING if you do not stand a chance. It is easier to look for the stop signs than the go signs. If they step away from you when you are standing sort of close? A hint. (of course if you have no clue about boundaries and are too close, this wont tell you anything, but if you are standing a normal social distance from her, and take one small step closer and she immediately moves away, its a sign.

originally posted by ADisbeliever

If they smile back at me , it means they are interested? or does it just mean they are being polite? What happens if they don't smile back, does that mean they are not interested and I should never look at them or talk to them ever again?

Smiling back does NOT mean they like you like you. It just means they dont find you unlikable. It means you have the chance to find out more. It isnt a green light, it is a yellow light. It means you arent all the way out.

If you catch their eye, and smile and they do not smile back, (assuming they really can see you) thats a very bad sign. It means they probably dont like you much at all. You can still look at them, and talk to them, but it does mean you should not try to push it. It is a strong red light for the dating game. It may not be your looks, maybe they heard you say something in class that they really didnt like. Just be friendly like you would with anyone, and see if it changes. Dont let what one, two or twenty women think of you effect you. They may be reacting to your confidence, not to your looks. The only way to get more confident is not to worry what people think of you.

originally posted by ADisbeliever

Is that how I let them know I am interested without being too outgoing? That's the problem I'm a gentleman and don't want to make them think I am forcing myself onto them, I want to be very very subtle about it and polite, but I haven't mastered this.

A gentleman gets to know a woman, (or anyone) personally before getting down to business. Think about it, you are out on the golf course and you meet some guy you might want to do business with, do you barge up and say, "HEY, I want to do business with you?" Or do you chat him up, feel him out, test the chemistry, and then casually introduce the subject of business and see how he reacts. It is much the same with women and dating.

originally posted by ADisbeliever

oh these are 4th year college classes we are talking about BTW, so I don't have much time left before my opportunities are gone.

Now thinking like that will ruin you. Remember the no pushy no desperate thing. College is not your only opportunity. It is a good one, but for certain not your only one. Shy people take longer to bloom, but that doesnt mean you are out of the game forever, it only means your peak is going to come at a time when the early bloomers are already starting to wilt.

One good clue a girl likes you when making eye contact. If you catch her eye and smile, (do not stare all crazy, it should be kind of brief.) And she smiles back, sort of lowers her eyes and head a little, and touches her hair sort of nervously. (maybe tucks it behind her ear) that is a green light. If you make a girl nervous, and she is smiling, maybe blushing a little, it is a really good sign.

Be friendly. People like people who like them. Dont you?

reply to post by sir_chancealot


i think u just like foreign women because u think its exotic to be with them. like doing it with an alien...jk seriously though why do american women display a sense of superiority towards foreign women and always presume that american women are happiest because of feminism...i got news for you, they are much happier.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


lol you giving ADisbeliever advise on how to stare? really...no way is staring gonna get you anywhere at least not until you open your mouth. all u gotta do is show interest, listen, seek advise from her on stupid issues, and dont embarrass urself. this is all of course presuming that ur not good looking. there are other things u could do but i dont remember them.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by DuneKnight]

well I'll agree with you on one thing, modern western feminism IS an awful thing in many ways...

But, what you call a "traditional" woman is also merely a role women have been forced into...while it retains the elements men like, it abolishes their personal freedom and often intelligence as well...

What your calling a traditional Woman... is in many ways what true Feminism is... a Mother, a care giver giver, a healer, a thing of beauty...

But men took that and made themselves head of household and... Really for a woman to fully be that person, she should be the head of household, her part of the equation should be at least equal to yours... and in reality She should be the Head of the houshold if that is her role...

and in these places you refer to she isn't she is a slave that plays all the nurturing roles for the man...but gets not the respect nor the authority of that position...in anyway.

In a true feminist society, in any kind of society that was remotely a matriarchy, a system where women were truely free to be women...Not Men as is the case in Western feminism...

You would not be quite as happy, She would hold the house as hers, she would be free to have other lovers sometimes and in fact part of the duties of any female head of houshold in coutries was to 'educate' younger men in sexual parctices... and no western guy practically could handle that given our belief systems...

Her role as Child raiser, care giver, healer, spiritual advisor, food preparer, life giver, farmer... would be above your role as ... worker and warrior in a truely Traditional system... Her word would be the rule of the house...

which comes full circle to western women having been given certain freedoms but not recognition of their actual status and thus...their pissy attitude to men...

sexually set free, Guys just ignore their reality...boast and strut and... sexual reality of both sexual need and desire is by far the opposite of what we do in our culture...

so if you took a traditinal woamn and set her free and listened to her and swhat her ideal would be and what she would want control over in a relationship, you would have the same exact situation we do int he States until such a time as men face reality and stop being insecure about their masculinity

Originally posted by sir_chancealot


You see, you have it stuck in your head that men just want to get a little piece of tail, preferably in 2 minutes or less, and then roll over and go to sleep. Know which guys are like that? The ones that chase...women... all the time. Those of us that are a little more picky like to have a much better sexual experience.

Hey nothing wrong with knock it out and roll over and catch some Zzzz's. Not all women WANT an all nighter. I sure dont. I am not one of those mythological women of whom you speak that can have orgasm after orgasm. Lol. I personally dont know any, but I have heard they exist.

I am more of a do it once, enjoy it, and then maybe have a sandwich and go to sleep kind of girl. I make sure I get what I need, and they better do the same, because when I am done, I am either hungry, or tired, or both. I am not going to be in the mood to play "marathon man," and if you miss the boat by more than 10-15 minutes, you have to get off the dock and wait for the next ferry.

Not a big fan of foreplay either. Its ok, but if it drags on, I just say lets get to the point. Not all women are the same. We dont all like the same things.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


ah okay first off women arent all these things at once. and in foreign countries men are in charge of the economy while women are the head of the household; clearly she is more aware of whats going on with each family member than the guy who is only concerned with work. having two working parents brought in alot of problems in m opinion, it isnt a bad thing entirely but it made relationships weaker.
secondly, most women like being submissive, so they got no problem with the guy being in control, depriving her of that role could lead to problems.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
reply to post by sir_chancealot

 

Bro, lol, she Knows you are incompetent in bed from what your saying... and so do I...

She does? If she can tell how good a man is in bed by what he is saying, how is it that she got stuck with all those men that were lousy in bed? (And, if I have her confused with another poster in this thread, my apologies in advance). If women everywhere could tell this, why are there a lot of complaints on this thread of men's incompetence in bed?

And you would know this how? Have you made it your practice to sleep with a lot of men? (As Seinfeild would say, "not that there's anything wrong with that." )

Here's a hint that I wasn't bragging, merely stating fact: At NO POINT did I ever mention what the woman looked like, how she responded, etc., etc., etc. One would think if a man were bragging, he'd include all those juicy details.

Kissing girl's butts on the internet isn't going to get you laid. Doing so in person isn't going to get you laid. In fact, it most often has the exact opposite effect.

Go through all my posts on this forum, not just this thread. See if I have lied or exaggerated anywhere. Please, point it out if this is so.

Notice the ad-hominem attacks so liberally poured out on me in this thread. "He is bragging, he has a small penis, he says he has a large penis, he just wants a submissive woman, he just wants a woman he can control, foreign women just want a green card, etc., etc., etc.,". Notice that very seldom is my ARGUMENTS actually addressed. Deny ignorance, indeed.

Castigate me all you like, but more and more young men are choosing to avoid american women. This is indisputable FACT. Marriage rates are down, living together is down, birthrates are down, and divorce is up. Oh, but there is the slight complication that when those men are paired with more traditional women outside of america, marriage is up, divorce rates are WAY down, and the birthrate is up in that group. Coincidence?

There have been a couple of women on this thread that gave reasonable opinions and their stances on this issue, but they are few and far between.

Guess what "Bro"? Women have been using "shaming language" to get men to do what they want for thousands and thousands of years. Men today are becoming aware of this, albeit slowly. Young men today are even more aware of it than older men are. I personally do not care one IOTA what anyone thinks of me on here, or on any other place on the internet; however, I will not allow a tactic, used by so many women in america today, to go unanswered. To do so would be an injustice on some of those here. (Who and why are too long to get into tonight, and are not germaine to the discussion on hand)

Young men, notice this: When you say something displeasing to a woman, especially ABOUT women, they will invariably do two things: 1) insult your penis, and 2) insinuate, or outright state, that you "obviously" could not please a woman in bed". It's an old, old trick. One, sadly enough, that is all too effective on those men that still try and seek female approval for most of their actions.

Edited to add: Is it any wonder that these young men are saying they prefer porn to real women?

[edit on 18-8-2008 by sir_chancealot]

reply to post by DuneKnight


Actually, if you read it, I am NOT giving him advice on how to stare. Lol. I would highly advise NOT staring. Staring is creepy, and says, I am a serial killer or stalker. I am telling him to be himself, get to know them, develop confidence and learn the stop signs. Making brief eye contact and staring are VERY different things. I promise.

I threw in the eye contact thing at the end because I have actually seen studies that that is the one sure way to tell interest. And, I have done it myself. Unconsciously, but I know I do it if I find the guy attractive. It doesnt mean I will date him, I am in a relationship and do not cheat, but I cant help myself if someone I find attractive catches my eye. It still makes me nervous and causes me to do the stupid look down, fidget with my hair thing. It is an involuntary reaction when someone (female generally but of course, not ALL women) is physically attracted to someone they dont know. (Or even suddenly physically attracted to some they have know but previously werent that attracted to.) It is a really good clue. And, like I said, behavioral studies have borne it out, not just hearsay.

Do guys have a similar stupid thing they do? I cant think of any off the top of my head.

Thats another good reason to talk to the girl and get to know her first, btw. I had a guy come up and give me his number today and although I am with someone, it all happened too fast for me to figure out how to say that without sounding rude. Now I either have to blow him off altogether, or call him to tell him I am seeing someone. You guys make it really awkward for US if you ambush us. It is hard to think on your feet when you get surprise attacked. If he had just taken the time to talk to me a time or two first, (he works somewhere I do business) he would have saved himself some rejection, and me the discomfort of having to do it.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
...Also, in relation to Sir_Chancelots theory that you can only find a women who will love you in the third world. Ignore that. It isnt true. ...

Can you please post the EXACT quote where I said that? If not, then you are incorrect, and either mistaken or a liar. (personally, I think you are just mistaken)

One thing I forgot to post in my thread about visiting other countries. Someone else mentioned it, and I would like to quote it, but it's late, I'm tired and getting lazy.

5) DO NOT GET WITH BAR CHICKS. EVER.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
...You guys make it really awkward for US if you ambush us. It is hard to think on your feet when you get surprise attacked. If he had just taken the time to talk to me a time or two first, (he works somewhere I do business) he would have saved himself some rejection, and me the discomfort of having to do it.

Oh no! A guy found you attractive! (not a sarcastic barb, but a kidding jest.)

I will tell you why players would do such a thing. It saves time, they are playing the "numbers game", and they are avoiding the "I have a boyfriend" routine that many women will do instead of just saying "no thank you".

It's interesting that you call a guy expressing interest in you as being "surprise attacked". What do your choice of words in this instance say about your attitude to men in general?

reply to post by sir_chancealot


Actually Sir_Chancelot, I think I have been far, far more fair to you than you to me. And I am a female. I have responded to your actual points, and given them good consideration, and I have never insulted your manhood, physical or otherwise. The points I made about some foreign women having economic reasons to want to snag an American, I stand by. It is based on my own experience, and I am not saying that is why YOUR woman is with you. I dont know her. I cant say that. I am also not saying ALL foreign women are like that. I know they are not ALL anything, that would be ridiculous.

You, however, keep saying ALL women, ALL American women, etc. If you would not be so totalitarian, you would not get the reaction you do from some women. When you say or imply ALL of us, you are attacking us. Did you realize that?

And since when is a guy who happens to agree with a woman kissing her butt? Is there some man law, that states you may never ever actually happen to share an opinion with a female? I dont think so. I know quite a few men. They wont show me the man book, but I know that isnt in there.

You know what is interesting, to me anyway. All of the things you accuse American women of, you are guilty of. Discrimination, being hostile, attacking, painting with a broad brush and not taking the time to look past appearances and superficialities. Do you realize you are doing the very thing you hate in them? Or has it snuck up on you over the years after having some bad experiences?

God damnit, what the hell has this thread devolved into. All of you claim to be adults? If this is what it means to be grown up then you all can call me Peter effing Pan.

Damn shame too, because I love this topic. I personally think porn stinks. It couldn't give me a rod if I took a viagra. It has nothing to do with the availability of porn. Rather, it has to do with both the porn models/actresses and the sex itself.

As for the "actresses."
Personally, I've never been terribly drawn to the plastic barbie looking women. That's not to say that I wouldn't date one because looks are only a small part of the package, still though, I prefer real looking women.
And there certainly isn't anything wrong with a little luggage...
That's "junk in the trunk" to you white people...
That's "excess body fat, especially but not limited to the posterior" to you REALLY white people.

Fake boobs should be used sparingly, if at all. If they look fake then the male mind can tell and it's no longer a sexual turn on (though it may be a "societal" turn on, this is neither the time nor the place for that). The human mind is very good at determining what is human, and if it no longer looks human I'd bet good money that it no longer contributes to the overall sexual response cycle of the male(of course, the rest of the woman's body, along with personality can more than make up for this).
See this thread for how difficult it is to make the human brain believe that an artificial human is natural...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I also don't like much makeup and I don't like shaved pubic hair.

As for the sex. It's fake. Simple. It's not sexy because they aren't enjoying themselves. In fact, maybe the whole reason I don't find anything sexy about the barbie look is because of the sex in porn.
Hmmm... chicken or the egg?

Eh, too much thinking and I need to get to sleep.

So, on a final note, how about that Naomi Wolf, huh?
You know, the broad that wrote the article.

Not only is she delicious, but she's brilliant, has great political views (look them up), and shares my opinion on porn. That's a really sexy combination.


I'd lick her keister after a triathlon

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

I will tell you why players would do such a thing. It saves time, they are playing the "numbers game", and they are avoiding the "I have a boyfriend" routine that many women will do instead of just saying "no thank you".

I agree that that is what some players do. (Usually the cheesiest of them, btw, the best players almost seem like nice guys)
This guy wasnt a player. If he were I would not be uncomfortable. He is a really nice guy, and shy. Thats why he sneak attacked me, and ran up and handed me the number and left before I could say much. He didnt want to hear anything too horrible. And I dont want to hurt his feelings. He is a really cool guy, and I dont want him turning into YOU at some point.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
It's interesting that you call a guy expressing interest in you as being "surprise attacked". What do your choice of words in this instance say about your attitude to men in general?

Lol, no, it is my reaction to a guy who runs up to my car as I am getting into it and hands me his number. A guy, not all guys. If he had just expressed interest, I would have had time to make sure he knew I wasnt on the market. Generally speaking, guys that rush are of two sorts, players.. just playing the numbers game, and they dont really care if you say no, it isnt about YOU as a person, just a booty call. And nice guys, usually on the young side, who simply dont know how to approach a woman any other way, and they choose for quick so they dont lose their nerve.

Get it through your head, Sir-Chancelot. I like men. I dont think they are ALL anything. If this guy had been a player I would have known exactly what to do. I wouldnt have cared any more about his feelings than he did mine. This guy wasnt a jerk. He is actually quite nice. He still ambushed me though. I was totally unprepared, and not expecting it.

Originally posted by DuneKnight
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

ah okay first off women arent all these things at once. and in foreign countries men are in charge of the economy while women are the head of the household; clearly she is more aware of whats going on with each family member than the guy who is only concerned with work. having two working parents brought in alot of problems in m opinion, it isnt a bad thing entirely but it made relationships weaker.
secondly, most women like being submissive, so they got no problem with the guy being in control, depriving her of that role could lead to problems.

Submissive sexually and submissive in Life are two entirely different things...

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Do guys have a similar stupid thing they do? I cant think of any off the top of my head.
Thats another good reason to talk to the girl and get to know her first, btw. I had a guy come up and give me his number today and although I am with someone, it all happened too fast for me to figure out how to say that without sounding rude. Now I either have to blow him off altogether, or call him to tell him I am seeing someone. You guys make it really awkward for US if you ambush us. It is hard to think on your feet when you get surprise attacked. If he had just taken the time to talk to me a time or two first, (he works somewhere I do business) he would have saved himself some rejection, and me the discomfort of having to do it.

"stupid thing they do?" - i dont know guys arent that self-conscious so i cant really say, i usually just blush and my eyes become watery (i think)...maybe a semblance of an erection lol jk

yeah guys have that strategy and i guess it works or else they wouldnt be using it all the time. plus most of the time girls are in packs, together with her friends and such, so guys wait for the moment where shes alone so as to prevent subtle ridicule from her friends. so maybe the cornering thing is just that.

reply to post by sir_chancealot

originally posted by sir_chancealot

Dude, take my advice. Go out of the country to a non-feminized country. Meet local girls (not bar chicks). Then come back to this forum, and see if it was something you "did wrong" here in America. I think it will be quite a shocking eye-opener for you.

I dont think you realize how all the things you say about American women add up.

I do enjoy many of your points, but the flat out discriminatory stuff is just hurtful.

Programming by Sex
Programming through sex is an effective tool of programming by the dark side. It is a very effective tool and a very common one because this type of programming pleases the physical senses of the body and that is because the human body has been created, by the evil demiurge, in such a way as to respond to the physical senses of the environment. Such physical senses were never part of the True original body of the True creation.

Negative sex energy can be transferred from one partner to another.

Those who use sex as a means of developing or opening their psychic centres are like those who take drugs to induce a psychedelic trip. Sexual fantasies, pornography and all other perverted means are means of encouraging pollution of the lower Centres to trap people.

Evil beings are often agents of the dark side to trap the True beings in sex. Sex between an evil being and a True being always leads to a loss of energy from the True being to the evil being. It always leads to a contamination of energy of the True being by the evil being.

People who are heavily programmed always work on the lower Centres only.

These people can never recognize Truth although they think they do. Programming by the Evil Mind does not improve or advance any being spiritually. It always leads to a further drop in awareness. Hence evil programming is evil.


SEX
Another problem arising from the programming via the Lower Centres is associated with sex. Energy in the sex Centre should be drawn upwards, not thrown outwards and wasted.

As I stated earlier, sexual desire and enjoyment are the creation of the evil demiurge controlling this dimension and they have been created in order to exploit the True beings. It is possible to transform our Centres through a bringing down of the Divine Light, Power and Bliss into the Centres to transform them.

The emotional excitation that comes with sexual desire creates the most favourable opportunity and vibration in the atmosphere for invasion by lower forces and lower beings from the lower dimensions whose sole purpose is to prevent the descent of the Divine Power into the Centres.

I also said that the pleasure of sex is a degradation and not a True form of the Divine joy, for the True Divine joy in the physical has a different quality and vibration. Its manifestation is only possible when there is the Inner union with the Divine.

Therefore, seek the Divine Love through the Heart and not via the Lower Centres.

When one mixes sex and spirituality, one is asking for trouble. Even the attempt to sublimate sex by turning it towards the Divine is dangerous, as the results of wrong use of this method so often demonstrate.

It is better to learn to acquire complete mastery over the sexual force.

It is worth repeating that the total ascent of the Divine Force is impossible as long as the sexual desire blocks the way.

The descent of the Divine Power is dangerous as long as sexual desire is powerful in the Lower Centres. At any moment during the ascent of the Divine Power, any latent sexual desire may be the cause of a block which impedes the pathway of the Divine Power.

Any mixture of the Lower energies due to any trace of latent sex desire can hamper the True descent of that power and this can bring about a weakness in the being which can allow the person to succumb to temptations. That person can then use the energy thus acquired for selfish (evil) purposes or turn the action of the consciousness towards wrong experience. Therefore for true progress, one must clear this obstacle at the sex centre.

Sex is not a natural part of the True Being. It is an imposition by the demiurge.

Sex problems occur only when there is (often secret) indulgence of perversion replacing the normal sexual activity. It can also be an indulgence by imagination or by an invisible interchange of lower energies with the lower dimensions.
cont...

Genuine sexual abstinence is beneficial because the sex energy is then transformed into a spiritual force. Remember sexual impulse is an imposition.

LUST (vital desire) is a degradation which prevents love from establishing its True reign in the Heart Centre.

When the Heart Centre begins to open, it is important that lust must not be allowed to enter it, for any mixture of this pollution in the Lower Centres will pollute the Heart Centre and also pollute the spiritual action and prevent a True fulfilment in the Heart Centre.

A sex problem is serious only as long as it can get the consent of the Mind and the lower Will.

One who is truly seeking a purified life can be very disturbed by sexual dreams programmed by the demonic beings in the lower realms. However one can place a strong Act of Will on the sexual centre (Root Centre) to ensure that there will be no sexual dreams in one's sleep.

With perseverance, one can succeed in eradicating such upsetting dreams which can otherwise unbalance the whole being.

Until the whole being is transformed through purification and surrender to the Divine Will, one is bound to vacillate and not stay constantly in the higher consciousness due to the negative programming.

more on sex

yeah but that's the problem I don't know how to get to know her. I'm not good at breaking the ice or making the first move, i just don't know what to do. I mean once they strike up a conversation with me, I do fine, but I'm just not good at being the first to introduce yourself.

OK, SCENARIO TIME:

You are sitting in college class, about 20 people in the class. The class is a science class, meteorology. You see a girl you find really attractive, and seems by her gestures and tone of voice to be the type of girl you are interested in.

She is sitting across from you on the other side of the room.


What do you do? Tell me all the steps, from start to finish.



[edit on 18-8-2008 by ADisbeliever]