"The Porn Myth"

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
I often wonder why men are so much more into this stuff than women. I know plenty of women who have fun with porn and adult "toys". But none that strive for the perfect man when it comes to a sexual image, I certainly don't know any who would buy a life sized doll or even an attractive hooker. It is something about men that remains a mystery to me.

I don't think its just about the dolls being the perfect sexual image. I think its a bunch of things:

a) they are easily available, most women are not really that easy
b) some guys are into stuff that many women are not into
c) some guys may prefer to keep their sexuality private (as in not share it with another live person)
d) some guys for whatever reason don't want to socialize, and prefer to keep the "woman" in the closet and drag her out

I couldn't get into the dolls (even though they do make a male version, I think its mostly for gay men though), or male prostitutes. But heck if science ever came up with a truly lifelike android that could be programmed to talk/act in a natural way to my preferences, wow I would be all about that! If it seemed real (except perfect of course) I could not care less if it were truly biological.

let me get this straight, are we talking about dolls now? wow, okay, i'll bite.
this might help:

Mori's hypothesis states that as a robot is made more humanlike in its appearance and motion, the emotional response from a human being to the robot will become increasingly positive and empathic, until a point is reached beyond which the response quickly becomes that of strong repulsion. However, as the appearance and motion continue to become less distinguishable from a human being, the emotional response becomes positive once more and approaches human-to-human empathy levels. This area of repulsive response aroused by a robot with appearance and motion between a "barely-human" and "fully human" entity is called the uncanny valley. The name captures the idea that a robot which is "almost human" will seem overly "strange" to a human being and thus will fail to evoke the empathetic response required for productive human-robot interaction. Uncanny Valley

those human-like Japanese robots are a freak show if u ask me. maybe sexy androids in the future could become big business, well at least until some idiot uploads a virus that programs them to perform genital mutilation onto their owners.

Originally posted by DuneKnight
those human-like Japanese robots are a freak show if u ask me. maybe sexy androids in the future could become big business, well at least until some idiot uploads a virus that programs them to perform genital mutilation onto their owners.

I think the social implications of really lifelike androids would be hilarious. People would suspect a really good looking date was possibly an android. The TMZ shows would have a whole new angle "the stunning date on his arm at the Oscars, is she human? TMZ investigates..."

People ordering androids would often consider having them resemble ex lovers, partly so they would "pass" a bit easier. That would be both flattering and creepy for the real life ex.

reply to post by Sonya610


Thats assuming that the public in the future still is obsessed with celebrities but yeah i can see that happening and what scares me is how accepting i am of such a future; nothing is surprising to me anymore. i think u touched on a sensitive subject, at least you almost did with the whole ex-lover android. what concerns me is if people start making androids of dead loved ones, would that be immoral? but seriously i want an honest answer, would anyone actually sleep with an android if the opportunity arises? you see where im getting at here.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by DuneKnight]

Originally posted by DuneKnight
but seriously i want an honest answer, would anyone actually sleep with an android if the opportunity arises? you see where im getting at here.

I absolutely would. Plus no pregnancy or STD risk, for those that worry about fidelity no concern about that either. Single women could use them as surrogate father figures. Geeky males could find adoring, lifelong brides. The possibilities would be endless. I think I could even fall in love with one, but my ideas on sentient are a bit broader than most.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by DuneKnight
but seriously i want an honest answer, would anyone actually sleep with an android if the opportunity arises? you see where im getting at here.

I absolutely would. Plus no pregnancy or STD risk, for those that worry about fidelity no concern about that either. Single women could use them as surrogate father figures. Geeky males could find adoring, lifelong brides. The possibilities would be endless. I think I could even fall in love with one, but my ideas on sentient are a bit broader than most.

i guess this gives new meaning to sex, even though its convenient for many to displace such feelings and emotions onto non-sentient beings; it doesnt seem that we cherish human beings at all. I think the importance of sex is to feel loved by another human that knows what love is but i can see that is not what people are going for.

if im gonna picture a future permeated by sex androids, i would have to say that many couples will own a cheap android, used primarily for threesomes. i think many married couples would opt for that, it would certainly spice things in the bedroom. however in general sex has no limits and people know that, so heres hoping that sex doesnt end us like it did to past civilizations.

Wow...again, don't want to judge but, wow...androids? Really? I truly prefer real men, real love with all of it's complications and mystery. I'm not one for porn, but have watched it, don't know why I did. Single, lonely was hoping to fill the need I guess...by the way it didn't...(see above remark about "real")

Guess I'm old fashioned? Again, it's the deceit that often comes with these types of things that bothers me more than the act itself. It's simply put a wedge between us and doesn't seem to be something I am able to remove at the moment. The old "secrets keep you sick" thing... If your ashamed of it, or know that this is would bother your partner maybe you ought to find another way to "float your boat?" I believe that goes for anything; shopping, gambling, booze...anything has the potential to be detrimental to a relationship.

Women really aren't that different. I for instance love my beer, my sports, and my "cave dwelling". Just seems like men don't have the need to be connected to have sex, and I certainly don't mean to generalize. Just been my experience in this area. I on the other hand have to feel the connection on a deeper level to perform, not sure if many women feel the same. Everybody is different and whatever works for ya. Someone mentioned earlier about if you like porn you should probably find someone else that has the same taste...and if your into androids I guess it wouldn't matter?......

Originally posted by Sonya610
I absolutely would.

Reminds me of Jude Law's character, Gigolo Joe, from the movie Artificial Intelligence: AI.

Come to think of it, the idea's been around, in film, since at least 1975 with the release of the origional Stepford Wives.

The notion of artificial companions is an interesting one. Personally, I've always lived by the ideal of "to each their own, as long as it's not hurting anyone"; so, although I don't think it'd be for me, I have no problem with it.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
I certainly don't know any who would buy a life sized doll or even an attractive hooker. It is something about men that remains a mystery to me.

Perhaps your approach to the topic is why it remains a "mystery" for you. You seem to start out with the preconcieved notion that "it's something about men" as opposed to "it's something about people". Just because you don't personally know any women who've admitted to you that they would doesn't mean that there aren't women who would, and have, taken advantage of such "services".

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
I know plenty of women who have fun with porn and adult "toys". But none that strive for the perfect man when it comes to a sexual image...

Is "size" not a part of the male "sexual image" to you?

I can only assume that some of the women you know have picked out their "toys" based on their fantasy of what an ideal man's appendage should be. Sure, they likely have differing opinions as to what's "perfect", but that's why so many "toys" are available on the market.

Personally, I know quite a few women who joke about "B.O.B." being their "perfect man". He's there when they need him, and he doesn't leave dirty socks & undies laying about.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander



My point is I don’t know a single woman who expects men to sexually and physically live up to those standards, as many men I know do with women. Infact I actually only know an older man who reads romance novels. That's just my personal experience.

reply to post by redmage



preconcieved notion

Do not doubt I have those, as does everyone when it comes to certain topics. I can only reflect my opinion based off women I’ve met, in person, on line, and polling and research done on sexual interest and expectations. Obviously if my personal knowledge gained from information and experiences was different my opinion would be different.

women who would, and have, taken advantage of such "services".

Never said they didn’t exist, but from a market stand point it is clear men overwhelmingly pay more for sex and sex dolls. Porn is a market that more heavily targets men as well, would could have something to do with it. Although I’d say women probably match them if not top them when it comes to purchasing sex toys.

I can only assume that some of the women you know have picked out their "toys" based on their fantasy of what an ideal man's appendage should be.

Yes, but I doubt many expect men to live up to what a male penis could never do. (Vibrate; last for as long as you need it, etc) This thread points out how porn raises mens expectations of women.


[edit on 11-8-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

It seems every guy wants to date a girl who looks like a porn queen but I wonder what would happen if women starting demanding similar standards of men. Porn would most certainly drop off the radar a bit.

lol, this seems very short-sighted to me. I do not really give a # about that personally and I love my girlfriend a lot, it I couldn't care less about whether she looks like a porn star or not. That means nothing to me. I like the way she looks right now.

I think most healthy women understand that porn stars and models aren't the real deal. I mean, do all men have 9 inchers here? Doubt it. And we don't expect them to.

Real people want to interact with real people. Those who prefer the fantasy, will always seek it, and will never fully realize it.

And most men I know may gawk at a nice, air-brushed naked woman spread eagle on a motorcycle. They're guys. The ones who have healthy self esteem and a good dose of how the real world works, well, they know it's fantasy.

It's the few men who tell their size 4 girlfriend they are "fat" and idolize what a magazine sells them that give the rest of the gender a bad rap, imho. My guy pals just want a woman who they are attracted to (physical attraction IS a must,) that they can have something in common with and that can feed them a good pan of lasagna when they want it. Pretty easy stuff.

The prima-donna boys who have unrealistic expectations (or are 13 years old) are really in the minority. I have to say, I've only met one or two in my life that really and truly buy into that stuff.



[edit on 12-8-2008 by JungianQueen]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


lol @ How many star's this comment got.
But it's true.

Originally posted by hushpup
Just seems like men don't have the need to be connected to have sex, and I certainly don't mean to generalize. Just been my experience in this area. I on the other hand have to feel the connection on a deeper level to perform, not sure if many women feel the same.

I think most women do want some level of connection. Personally, if I am in the mood to have sex I do not need to feel a mental connection. In fact unlike most I find it odd and unappealing to have sex with people I HAVE known a while, like coworkers or friends of friends and the like, they maybe attractive but on some weird level it seems wrong, not comfortable at all. Plus strange is always more attractive. The only exception is people I have known online for a long time, intellectual intimacy but it is still strangers in many ways when the real life bit starts.

Took me a while to figure it out, but many avoid sex with strangers not because they are "so moral and they have so much self-control" but because they just aren't comfortable with the idea. Course generally they will wear it as a badge of moral integrity.

But of course because I am female if the sex was GOOD it will fire off hormones and create a feeling of bonding for a couple of days after, but that is just natural (oxytocin at work).


[edit on 12-8-2008 by Sonya610]

Let's face it folks, superficiality is not limited to one gender. As a male i have been subject to some of this myself at the College i have been attending for the past 4 years. For example i have encountered women over the years who look down on men who dont have a great body or a position with a high pay scale or title. One of the first questions i am asked is "so what do you do" i.e., your occupation may determine your pay scale. On at least on occasion i heard a woman comment "i would date you if your hair were shorter". There are simply people who have personalities that are focused on attributes pertaining to image. It has nothing to do with gender, its certain personalities. That kind of personality can be demeaning whether its in a woman's body with big tits or a man's jeans.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I worked at a book store for a couple of years. Women of all ages certainly do still read romance novels, and now some "romance novels" are disguised as mainstream fiction. Not all women of course, I personally do not read much fiction, and when I do, it is generally science fiction. (Yes, I may be a nerd.) I prefer to read science journals, and philosophy.

We had this debate in the bookstore, about the hypocrisy of women being SOOOOO offended by visual porn when romance novels are so obviously porn for women. As far as women not expecting men to live up to the ideals, I dont know if it is accurate to paint women as being all around more accepting of men as they are with no unrealistic expectations. It seems to me that women are pretty critical of their significant other, (again not all women or all the time) and one certainly could construct the female myth simply by paying attention to the complaints that are most common.

For instance, this example is gleaned from women I know.

A male myth.
Men should be stoic defenders of the family and country. They should love to work all day and happily sacrifice all their wants and needs to ensure the family has what it wants and needs. They should be successful at working, so that we can work or not work as we choose. They should love not only being these stoic defenders, but they should be tender listeners to all of our complaints and never get annoyed. (Or have any reasons to cry themselves) They should love little children and be the disciplinarian so women dont have to be the bad guy. But not too stern. They should be competent mechanics and carpenters, and plumbers, and be willing to spend their weekends off from work ensuring that our homes are in good working order. Everything that interests us, should fascinate them and they should be willing to listen to hours of discourse on the topics that interest us. They should not want to be away from us unless they have to for work or the defense of the country. They should be psychic, and able to read our minds about what we want for our birthdays, and in bed, sexually. We should never have to be so vulgar as to state our wishes. They should, after we are in their lives, never fantasize about other women, other lives, and they should develop blindness as it relates to other women. They should only want to hang out with their friends when we want time to ourselves. Preferably, they should want to stay home and cut the grass when we hang out with our friends. They should understand that all of our bad behavior is not our fault, (hormones, reacting to bad past relationships, etc.) but they should be held to the highest level of accountability. They should be willing to walk the mall for hours at a time never complaining while we look for cute shoes. And on, and on, and on.


Some of the crying debate we have had in this thread shows a pretty strong "men should be..." mindset, on both the part of men and women, but women not being entirely exempt from it. In fact, the expectation that men should not be visually aroused by others, or have ideas of "a perfect woman" that turns them on sexually is pretty unrealistic and hypocritical.

Just because men may have a "perfect" idea in their heads of what the ultimate turn on is, doesnt mean they reject those who are NOT examples of that perfection. I have an idea of a perfect man too. King Leonides in the movie "300" was pretty darn close to my idea of perfect, and my fiance looks and acts nothing like him. It absolutely doesnt mean I do not love or appreciate my fiance. He is fantastic, and I love him just the way he is. But hey, I am human, and a movie that has tons of half naked, loincloth wearing, oiled up men with perfect bodies running around spouting philosophy and fighting in battle, well, thats pretty close to porn for me. My best girlfriend and I regularly pull that movie out and watch it with a beer. Obviously we arent sitting there tossing off, but women, as someone else pointed out get turned on differently in general. It tends to happen in the mind, and it doesnt always take a direct route to our genitals. She and I do sit there for a while talking about how loincloths should absolutely be brought back into fashion. Lol.

As for the android issue. I think many women would have to admit that they could go there to. After all, what are female sex toys if not disembodied android male genitalia that run on batteries? One could easily make an argument that that was even MORE objectifying of males than a complete android partner, because it shows that only one part of the male anatomy is worth reproducing and keeping in the bedside cabinet.


[edit on 12-8-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by kosmicjack


That hasnt been MY experience. I havent dated in years primarily because those women i have encountered and who are eligible, single, and available are sometimes just as interested in appearances or the superficial equivalent. One woman remarked "you finally got a car" when i drove up to a conveneince store she was gassing up at. I said " ive had a car for two years" Then she asked "why are you always walking?" For some people the first impression i immdeiately interpreted by assumptions . For her it didnt occur that i enjoyed being outdoors and walking when weather permitted. She immediately assumed i had no car and no job. Women can be just as demeaning when they focus on a man's income or job title. More often than not, when meeting someone ive been asked (within the first couple minutes) "so what do you do", meaning "how much money do you earn?" Ive received much support from strangers when they learn i returned to school only to encounter women who werent interested because that meant i didnt have money or they though College is only for young people. Divorce is another example. Its nothing to do with gender, its the personality of some people.

Originally posted by Sonya610
Many women get "fake boobs" because WE like the way it looks! WE like the way clothes fit on us. Some of us don't want to go through life looking like 12 year old boys, we want to look like women.

Morons... where do you think you get the opinion that you look like boys if you have small breasts? Wimens magazines and TV shows!

Stop polluting your brains, its not that difficult. You have free choice of what to watch and what to listen to!

Small breasts are much, much sexier than large breasts by the way. I truly think wimen who watch TV programs about beauty so much that they no longer like themselfs are quite stupid. When are you going to use your brains? There is no larger turnoff than girls obsessed with their appearance and who watch their mirror image every 5 seconds. YOU are not your body!

Its the media that is sick, not you. Why are you listening to it?



[edit on 12-8-2008 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

We had this debate in the bookstore, about the hypocrisy of women being SOOOOO offended by visual porn when romance novels are so obviously porn for women.

I don't read romance novels [now], but know what they are all about as I read 1 or 2 when I was really young

I dont think there is hypocrisy in women reading them, verse their view on porn.

Romance novels contain lots of sex as does porn. The difference is that the sex in romance novels has passion and is more realistic....easier to relate to. Porn? Horrible acting, cheesy plots, over exaggerated and annoying "oooohhhhsss" and "ahhhhhhssss" and" "oh my god oh my god" and other unnecessary noises.

Woman can be JUST as "visual" as men. Trust me, they can be even if they dont admit it. However, it seems the difference between many (not all) men and women is that women prefer a bit of passion and realism to their sex "entertainment", whilst men do not. Porn does NOT provide either of this IMO.

I hate porn. I have seen it all and I hate it....for the reasons mentioned above. Fake, fake, fake. Ugly men and woman IMHO. Passionless sex and the list goes on.

I have also known addicts and seen how it affects them on many levels. Plus, if im not enough and the person I am with needs porn...then there is an obvious problem - and its not me.

With that said. There are women porn production/directors out there that make more realistic and passionate porn for woman. So for those women who want something that is not as fake with all the screaming and "oooohhhs" and "oh my gods" and some passion and realism, it is out there.


[edit on 8/12/2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Just because men may have a "perfect" idea in their heads of what the ultimate turn on is, doesnt mean they reject those who are NOT examples of that perfection. I have an idea of a perfect man too. King Leonides in the movie "300" was pretty darn close to my idea of perfect, and my fiance looks and acts nothing like him.

I'll fight you for him

I think King Leonidas (as played by Gerard Butler, not SpartanKingLeonidas from ATS, whom I've never seen a picture of, thought he may be just as hot) is just about every woman's fantasy. I remember AshleyD said she appreciated him too.

As for the android issue. I think many women would have to admit that they could go there to. After all, what are female sex toys if not disembodied android male genitalia that run on batteries? One could easily make an argument that that was even MORE objectifying of males than a complete android partner, because it shows that only one part of the male anatomy is worth reproducing and keeping in the bedside cabinet.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

That's an interesting way of thinking about it. Maybe deep down this is how womene who own such an appliance feel about men? Very interesting indeed. But can it fix a blown head gasket?

Originally posted by Copernicus

Its the media that is sick, not you. Why are you listening to it?



[edit on 12-8-2008 by Copernicus]

Some of us realize this but we can't help ourselves. I'm not talking about Sonya as she seems empowered enough to tell anything she didn't like to hit the road. But some of us realize the media beauty stereotype is as unrealistic as it gets yet are unable to stop trying to adhere to that standard.

YOU are not your body!

*sigh* If only everyone would accept and believe this.

Some people know this but others are not as openminded. Everyone knows Stephen Hawking is not his body, but if a gorgeous girl says something smart it's pretty hard for people to conceal their surprise.