Are you one of the lucky 45 million

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posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 01:45 AM
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“We now face an opportunity — and an obligation — to turn the page on the failed politics of yesterday's health care debates… My plan begins by covering every American. If you already have health insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount of money you will spend on premiums. That will be less. If you are one of the 45 million Americans who don't have health insurance, you will have it after this plan becomes law. No one will be turned away because of a preexisting condition or illness.”

— Barack Obama, Speech in Iowa City, IA, May 29, 200


source

Let's analyze this.

first point. He says that his plan begins by covering every American. Then he says that if you already have insurance...wait a minute if you already have insurance then[ b]his plan doesn't cover all Americans.

Second point- he says that if you already have insurance that you will spend less on premiums.


Reduce Health Care Costs
Obama’s plan will bring down the cost of health care and reduce a typical family’s premiums by as much as $2,500 per year.


source

Where did he get this figure.


For instance, the mailer says Obama's plan will save the average family $2,500 per year. That estimate comes from several Harvard professors who examined the plan at the Obama campaign's request.


source

No where on his site do I see a promise or guarantee that premiums will be reduced. As you can see it doesn't say you will save $2500 on premiums, it says it will reduce the cost of health care AND premiums by $2500. Leaves you wondering how much goes to reduce cost of health care and how much goes to reduce the premiums.

Most important point- If you are one of the 45 million Americans who don't have health insurance, SAY WHAT....we went from covering all Americans ( about 300 million) to 45 million.

Let's see. About 84% of Americans have insurance and 16% don't Obama calls it universal coverage but it only covers 45 or 50 million Americans without health care. He still plans to keep Medicaid and SCHIP.


Expansion Of Medicaid and SCHIP: Obama will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs and ensure that these programs continue to serve their critical safety net function.

source

Look I am all for covering every child in the United States and would be willing to pay the taxes for the children. But I see no reason why my taxes should subsidize other people health care and I am left paying my own bill with no help. This is a plan where only a few will benefit. Similar to other government programs that subsidize rent, subsidize utilities, and welfare in general.

I think the government would be better off finding ways to reduce health care cost which relates to the high cost of premiums. If they did this premiums would be cheaper so more people can afford health care plans.


Indeed, perhaps the most significant reason Americans are drowning in health care debt may shock you: Americans are getting far too much unnecessary care. Of our total $2.3 trillion health care bill last year, a whopping $500 billion to $700 billion was spent on treatments, tests, and hospitalizations that did nothing to improve our health.


source


Before you start bashing McCain's plan in here, I will say this. His plan is a subsidize freebie also and it sucks. The difference is that Obama calls his universal coverage for every American when it really isn't. I am not bashing Obama in any way. Most of this comes from his own website.

I just don't believe his plan is good for America because it comes at the expense of the American taxpayers. If you think otherwise, state your reason and let's have a healthy debate. If you just plan to smear Obama or McCain, there are many other threads to do that. Although I don't agree with either plan I still think they deserve respect for at least attempting to address the issue.




posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 01:52 AM
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time to come out of the dark
stop paying for a cadilac health system and getting a lemon.



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 03:05 AM
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This is such a bad idea. The government has absolutely no business in my health care. Uncle Sam really needs to back the hell off! I understand a lot of people dont have health care and cant afford medical bills and such, but most states do offer medical assistance, especially for children. I just dont like it one bit. The next thing I bet we will see will be mandatory health regulations set by our government. Oh boy I wonder if the "CHIP" implants will then be mandatory???


UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE = HUGE MISTAKE



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 12:11 PM
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Well let's see how the new ATS rules work. They want issues here is an issue.

Do you feel Obama' plan will cover all Americans as he states?



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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Socialized health care would be a more viable option if the government didn't suck so much and wasn't so full of corruption.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


The premise of Sen. Obama's plan is that everybody should have access to health care no matter the income, age or medical condition.

-There is no reason why and elderly person should decide what pills they can afford and what they can't, or worst yet if they have to decide between groceries or meds.

-There is no reason why parents specially single parents should take a chance on their sons and daughters health because they are afraid of the medical bill.

- The is no reason why a person that has been laid off from work and their family should be exposed to outstanding medical bills once they loose their jobs.

With that I agree.

Now people that make, lets say in the sake of using a figure a single person that makes $60,000 or above and work for a company that dont provide healthcare is very irresponsible by not having private healthcare and that should not be rewarded, I'm good with that too.

On the other hand, the thing that worries me about Sen. Obama's plan is that it could create a government entitlement the type that dont encourage people, specially poor people to make something for their lives. IMO the plan should have somekind of incentive for people to get off Government sponsored healthcare or somekind of year restrictions that a person or family can be enrolled with the obvious exceptions on case by case basis.

With that said, is my opinion that Sen .Obama's plan is a step in the right direction unlike Sen. McCain's plan that basically leaves things "as is", we promises of passing laws here and there that might lower the price of prescription medication and might make healthcare insurance more affordable. The reality is that companies either in Big Pharma or healthcare insurance are their to make a profit and not to serve the social good, so any laws that they intend to pass would be fiercely opposed by these companies through lobbyist, and their always going to find loopholes to enrich their bottomlines.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by Bunch]

[edit on 11-9-2008 by Bunch]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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Here's the thing. If you don't have health care then you are living in poverty levels. This means if something happens the government programs that already exist will pay for your treatment. People may walk around without a healthcare insurance card in their wallet but it only takes a stop at their local welfare agency to set them up in times of crisis. Worse case scenario the existing plans give the patient a spend down plan which is monthly and goes by income. So in that case a $50,000 operation gets covered for the month it incured minus the spend down amount which is based on income and is likely only a thousand dollars or less.

This is just a political hot issue which they deem will garner a large voter base if they can win the debate with their plan. In actuallity there is no need for a plan to cover uninsured today, there are already government programs in place that rob your tax dollars and pay for medical coverage.

The real problem is the base cost of health care. The tax dollars will go further if litigation and insurance costs to doctors and hospitals are reduced.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


If I said I was going to "wash all the clothes", I wouldn't mean that I would be emptying all the drawers and closets and wash ALL the clothes we own.


The problem Obama's addressing with his Health Care Plan is the uninsured in America. People who can't afford and don't have insurance. You can play semantics with his proposal, but in the end, everyone will have insurance. And THAT'S the problem his health care program addresses. The problem with our health care system is that not everyone has it. He's going to address that problem.

I don't understand how it's seen to be "lucky" not to have health insurance. When I didn't have it, I didn't feel very lucky. Especially when I had to have surgery and pay for it myself. Not "lucky" at all.

I don't think, "What can his policy do for ME"?
I think, "What can his policy do for my country and my fellow Americans"? I consider all of us. Not just me.


[edit on 11-9-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Health care in America should not be an issue, in a nation that can spend billions and trillions of dollars on wars and defense it can take care of those that can not afford health care due to income specially in an economy that is leaving more and more Americans unemployed.

I don't see what should be discussed here beside been the presidential candidate Obama the one making the remark, I will like to see what presidential candidate McCain plan is to provide for those that can not provide for themselves when it comes to health care.

The issue should not be who candidate is lying or making false statements both what candidate is offering a solution to a growing problem that it can not longer be avoided.

Everybody will need a doctor at sometime in their lives and when the person that have not insurance is rush to the emergency room we the tax payer will still be stuck with the bill.

Get it is not way around.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by marg6043]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I want to know who's paying for this. Is this another stick a gun to my head a pay this person's health care? If he's going to cover all Americans then it's only fair that he covers ALL. And what kind of service will we get with this health care plan? There's alot of holes in this and I need to know more to comment any further. How about all politicians take a cut in pay and take that money every year to pay for the people who should take care of them selfs.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:22 PM
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And as Americans keep been feed propaganda against socialized health care, people are still getting sick, been rushed to the emergency rooms with not health care and we the tax payer are still paying for the cost.

Get it, we the tax payer are still paying for the cost.

So rather of thinking where the money will come we already know that answer so lets give health care to all.

Plain and simple because not matter what we are going pay one way or the other.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Lucky, because they are not paying for it like other Americans. Not only do I have to pay for my own Insurance but now my taxes are paying for other peoples insurance.

Playing semantics with his proposal? It is what it is. He should be honest and say his plan only covers the uninsured. But every time he mentions it he says his plan will cover all Americans.

This insurance is in line with his top economic advisor Jason Furman, about make work pay work. Mr Furman believes defends WalMart's practices of paying low wages cause it benefits the lower tier of our population in the form of lower prices for the goods they buy. He believes that instead of forcing Walmart to pay decent wages the Government should give these low pay workers assitance and healthcare is one of those assistances.

see this thread....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Should walmart be allowed to pay low wages and make big profits while taxpayers foot the bill for insurance for their employees?

By the way when someones says they are going to wash all the clothes commonsense and years of hearing makes one understand that only dirty clothes will be washed.

When somebody says their plan will cover EVERY American, commonsense means it is what it is.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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I understand the motivation and the ideas behind a universal health care plan, but I think it should be an optional program offered at lower cost for people who meet the income criteria.

In Oregon we have a program called Oregon Health Care plan which essentially provides health care for pregnant mothers and children who are unable to afford their own health insurance.

How about if we make the plan optional insurance that you choose to contribute to monthly based on your income instead of a taxed health care system that forces people to contribute? Make it a program that pays for itself with millions paying into it optionally, forcing insurance companies to compete cost wise and maybe they will lower their monthly premiums?

Maybe I am being unreasonable, but in the end I would rather that every child in America has insurance then letting them slip through the cracks because their parents are unable to afford insurance due to poor life decisions that the child has no say in.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by Bunch
 



McCain's plan that basically leaves things "as is", we promises of passing laws here and there that might lower the price of prescription medication and might make healthcare insurance more affordable.



Obama's plan is also a might.

It might lower cost and premiums.

It might cost more than he anticipates.

It might force other companies to lower their wages and let government pick up the health care.

Other than that you made some good points in your thread. Many of these 45 millions have the means but are being irresponsible by not getting insurance.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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Marge is right. Right now, MANY people without health care wait till they are so sick, they're ready to die and then go to the emergency room. On us. Obama's plan lower costs of health care and prescriptions by making them competitive overall and that money will partially pay for insuring the uninsured. Others will come from taxes on people who make over $250K a year. I didn't say that very well, but you can read about it here.


FAQ

Obama Health Care Plan
Additional links at the bottom of that page.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by Ellipsis
 


In my view we should provide insurance to all kids regardless of income.

For that I would be willing to pay more taxes.

Good post....



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:53 PM
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At least Presidential candidate Obama is presenting what he may consider an approach to a problem that is no going away.

I still will love to see what Presidential candidate McCain is offering to this problem also.

But I got my hopes low when it comes to him as we know that the present administration that happens to be Republican has not done anything so far in 8 years to alleviate the problem.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I think what you said


But I got my hopes low when it comes to him as we know that the present administration that happens to be Republican has not done anything so far in 8 years to alleviate the problem.


could go back and forth all day. This is what the mods are talking about. Keep it between Obama's and McCain's plan and lets leave it at that. Not being mean just don't want other people attacking you for comments like this.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


Well without Presidential candidate McCain proposed health care program how can we get a comparison and even debate.

We need to compare both candidates proposals to see whish one is the one that will benefit the tax payer and the people in the nation.

So far compare to what is going on with health care in the nation is obvious that nothing has been done.

So If you please post what Presidential candidate McCain is offering we may have something to compare the two.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 02:09 PM
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To tell you the truth I am still waiting for an answer if we can bring up the other candidates name or plan. This is about Obama's plan and they may say we are off topic if we bring up McCain.

I feel like I am walking on eggshells.



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