Originally posted by Ciphor
reply to post by Amaterasu
Your full of spam lol. Please less spam, and less picking apart, more thought out points. You made no points that I can detect. but just for a laugh
I'll try and respond to this.
Uh... Yeah. Sure. Whatever you say.
I want to have the choice to handle it as I see fit based on my perception.
Again, as I have already stated, I am not debating your right to choose something. I am debating the fetuses rights. You say it is not a life and has
none. I say his beating heart and thinking brain is a life. What is your argument as to why it's not a life? Was it the chord or the breathing
Not exactly... I say the mechanicals are there and developing. This does not mean it's HUMAN.
About that soul thing... How do you know? It is counter to what the Biblical God says... And a number of other Gods, as well. They
pretty much agree that the soul enters the body at first breath.
I ask that you please read my posts and respond appropriately.
I am not religious and have said I feel this is a humanitarian debate. I also made sure to say "if you believe in a soul" as that is not a fact.
That is why I added that. Way to miss the point. I see a trend of this with you.
Hey, YOU mentioned the soul... And it was in a subsequent post that you explained about your lack of religious beliefs. Please pay attention to what
you have said and when it was said.
WTF??? Where did THAT come from? How do you equate a stopping of a process towards a vessel for a soul at first breath with the taking
of the vessel for a soul already incarnate!?!
So your saying you are religious and believe in a soul?
Nope, not religious. I bring up the first breath thing because mostly anti-choicers are religious but don't even know what their God said. But I do
believe in Spirit, and suspect strongly that it enters at first breath... (Spirit is the life-energy which flows from inside one out into the
Universe - as opposed to the "standard model," which has a "God Out There" feeding energy inwards.)
I never said I did, I simple implied if one does. I said I'm not religious. What I am saying is they are both murder. Both need oxygen, both
eat, both have beating hearts, both think.
Both...? [shrug] Anyway, fetuses do not eat, they absorb nutrients, and it is a projection of yours to say they "think." Fact is, you cannot
prove they think, nor can I prove they do not. What we choose to believe here is based on personal perspective. And if you want to conduct YOUR life
based on your perspectives, by all means, do so. But it is NOT your right to tell me, through legislation, physical force or otherwise to live MY
life by YOUR perspectives.
My right to choose to decapitate someone on a bus or decapitate someone in a womb I feel are no different.
So fine. Don't do either. Or do both. (But taking a sovereign entity's life is likely to get you jailed...) Your CHOICE. Just leave me to MY
Try and stick to the point. You wander to far off into laa laa land in your replies and miss what is being said.
Uh... Yeah. Sure. Whatever you say.
Ohhhhhh. I see. Are you involved with PETA, perhaps? A vegan by conscience? And you would force your perspective on others
This is just pathetic. We are not discussing the point of survival. I eat cheeseburgers. We are not debating eating babies for survival. Please, I beg
you, stay on point.
I liked that you cut your remark from the reply, making it unclear what I was responding to... So that you could accuse me, perhaps? Let's
You said, "Right to choose right? Wrong. When it's in regards to a life and considering another being whether it be human, fetus, or animal."
So you say that one has no right to choose, whether the life is human, fetus (note the differentiation you made here) or animal. And then when I
respond (appropriately!) you cut YOUR statement, and then accuse me of failing to respond appropriately. Oh, I roll my eyes, wondering who is more
These are your perceptions, and by all means, kill nothing! Not the ants that you might step on, not the bacteria in your mouth with
mouthwash, not the pig, not the [fill in the blank]. By all means. But what is it that makes your perception better than mine if I want to eat pig and
rinse my mouth out with Listerine? Or rather... what makes your perception, which is best for YOU, BEST for me over the perception I have? What gives
YOU the right?
I guess this is a point, since it addresses what we deem a life form eligible for emotional consideration. I think the line is drawn on the creatures
ability to display emotion and feel as well as a persons ability to detect this emotion and these feelings. Since we know this is a human baby and
our brains are far more advanced then other creatures we consider eligible for this then I would say this is a weak argument. You are comparing the
feelings and emotions of a bacteria to the unborn fetus of the most intellectually advanced creature on this planet.
No, it's just that you said - you DID - that it's not our choice when a life is involved of human, fetus or animal. What was I to think. I was not
"comparing" the two.
Be that as it may, if you may place your definitions on this point wherever you wish - for YOUR life. Stay out of mine.
Again, what makes you Lord (Lady)? What gives YOU the right to choose for ME?
Once again we find you off in laa laa land. Try and keep up ok? I am not lord. What I am saying is neither are you. What gives YOU the right to choose
Whom? The fetus? The one I don't believe is human until first breath? The fact that it is in MY body. That's what gives me the right. You are
accusing me of being in "laa laa land," but you clearly are having trouble grasping what I am saying here. You can dislike my choices, you can make
your own choices about your fetuses, but...
Don't legislate ME out of MY choices because YOU want to control ME to conform with YOUR perspectives.
I feel he is a life and you can't choose for him.
I feel it is MY call on MY body. I make no effort to assign MY perspectives to what YOU choose.
You feel it is not and you are choosing for yourself.
Now please join the actual discussion I am discussing. What criteria is it that you feel this is not a life form and has no right to a life.
I mentioned this earlier, and I will do so again. I know you will not agree, but that's ok, as long as you do not move against me because you think
your perspective is somehow better - for ME.
I believe the Spirit enters the vessel as first breath. That's just me. And if I don't feel I can give a quality life, full of love and with other
needs met, I feel it is wrong of me to allow such a vessel to be filled with spirit to endure a less than optimal existence in a world already
Surely if I can offer that which is needed, I will likely choose to complete the vessel. But I don't want anyone FORCING me to bring the vessel
forth to be filled.
[edit on 8/4/2008 by Amaterasu]