Who is the real killer in abortion? The parent or the politicians

reply to post by Clearskies

I didn't want to expose him to the germs when he was little.

Understandable. But it was certainly nice to have that option, no?

I got the DQ job, because it was second shift and I didn't trust many people with my children, my husband watched them at night.

Which now leads me to believe that you are taking some things for granted. Your husband's income, and his free babysitting services.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to claim that everything in your life was/is hunky-dory. But you should be grateful that you were able to raise your children. Some of us are not so lucky. Being homeless, having Lyme disease, and having just suffered a stroke, I hardly think that I am in the position to raise a child properly, for example.

Originally posted by Clearskies

Not being able to go to the doctor, many times I had to feed my children popcorn with sugar, because that's all I had, I had to walk my children across a road frequented by high speed tractor-trailers (because of the poultry plants) just to go use the payphone.
I gave my children a bath in a storage container in the yard, filled with water I got from the water heater.
Much more....

This is exactly what i was talking about. Even with all these agencies that you said are there to help people, public aide, WIC, churches you still couldn't go to the doctor, had to give your children a bath outside in a storage container because you didn't have an indoor tub? You had to feed your children popcorn with sugar because that's all you had.


There is no agency that provides enough help to poverty stricken families, what you're describing is definately not a case of children having even their basic necessities met. While you may believe it acceptable for children to live under such conditions, many people don't and if a woman does not want to have a child to watch it live under those conditions that is her right and she should be free to choose.

reply to post by Clearskies

I think it's politically convenient for most pro abortion agencies NOT to track the percentage of rape abortions.
I think it would break down the largest tool they have for brainwashing people into accepting killing a HUMAN.

You just told us that rape accounts for less than 2% of all abortions. Are you saying then that there might actually be a higher percentage, but that the figure is being obscured by pro-choice advocates? That doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

They don't ask you when you go to a clinic, "Why are you doing this"?

Because it is none of their business. They are not psychologists or spiritual advisors. But you say it's all about the money right? Well, name something that isn't. Did you know that every child born and issued a SS number is worth $600,000 to the government against the debt to the Federal Reserve. So tell me, which side is really "all about the money."

Not to mention the fortunes made from our prison system, filled with people who never should have been born in the first place, and who know it. Did you know that this "land of the free" keeps more of its own people in prison than Communist China? That's correct, Capitalist America puts more of its own people in prison, than Communist China with their 1.5 billion people. And I don't mean per capita either, I'm talking raw numbers. As far as percent of population, China doesn't even compare. Why do you think this is?

...and another thing....

Why should I have to pay into WIC and welfare because a woman is not responsible enough to make the right decision, after she has already been irresponsible enough to be having un-protected sex when she wasn't ready? Of course, we are only talking about one category of people who might have to make this sort of decision. But even the woman who accidentally got pregnant despite trying to be safe, is entitled to make the reponsible decision if they cannot take care of a child.

[edit on 9/1/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by chise61


This is exactly what i was talking about. Even with all these agencies that you said are there to help people, public aide, WIC, churches you still couldn't go to the doctor, had to give your children a bath outside in a storage container because you didn't have an indoor tub? You had to feed your children popcorn with sugar because that's all you had.

I didn't ask for help as far as money and food.
Although my children had medicaid.
My husband worked construction, (as he still does)
I just tried to budget our money when he had work.
I used bar soap as clothes detergent by using a cheese grater, It WORKS!
I learned how to heat food up on our natural gas radient heater, when we had no power.
I also had a lot of peace. No annoying phone calls.
My children didn't fight over cartoons or fancy toys.
They didn't starve.
Sometimes some of my neighbors would have extra, that they got from a church and it was a LOT, they (Not knowing of our needs) would bring me some.
Here's a picture of my oldest taking a bath.
Does he look unhappy or mistreated?
No, because he nor his brother were.

The pioneers did much more with much less.
We had and still have a lot of free fun.

I went from Pre-K to cleaning condos BEFORE I worked at DQ, but, after that I worked at a factory and had a babysitter.

I've had LOTS of other jobs besides these with different babysitters and I didn't have government help.

My point about the percentages of rape abortions are that they are not tracked, because it's probably much LOWER than 2%.


[edit on 1-9-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by Clearskies


I don't think that anyone is trying to denegrate you for your decision. There certainly are a lot of people who take for granted the things in life that you have gotten by without. And honestly, I don't think it's too much to ask for a little help from the government (i.e. your neighbors that you don't know) if you are a hard-working and caring parent who is a little down on their luck.

BUT, I think there are still some things that you are taking for granted with an "if I can do it anyone can" mentality. Know your own limits, don't pretend to know someone else's.

reply to post by Clearskies


First i have to say that your son is adorable !!! And never for a minute think that your children were unhappy or mistreated, nor did i mean to imply that. If it seemed that i was implying any such thing i apologize as that was not my intent.

I was merely trying to point out that some women would not want to raise a child in poverty, and some women just do not have the strength to deal with some of the things that have to be dealt with when there isn't enough money.

LOL grating bar soap, (so you don't misunderstand, i'm not laughing at you, just when you said IT WORKS! made me laugh) i must admit that i never tried grating it, i just used the whole bar when i didn't have money for laundry soap or the laundromat and had to scrub their clothes by hand. I learned to cook with candles when my gas was off and heat water for baths in an electric coffee pot. Isn't it amazing how we can adapt and improvise when we have babies to take care of, and not enough money ?

I would like to point out however that you were luckier than some of us in the fact that you had a husband to help you, financially and emotionally. I did not have the good fortune of being able to leave my sons with their father when i had to work, or his shoulder to lean on when times got a little to hard. It is much harder to do with no support, and some women just can't handle it.


I don't believe that 2% is a high number, i believe it is a low number.

reply to post by jackinthebox


I don't think the American people would be so burdened with paying into these things if so many benefits weren't going to illegal immigrants and commonwealths that pay no taxes.

reply to post by chise61


Well, I don't feel defensive.
Thanks! All my children are adorable!
Actually my husband got on drugs around that time and that's where a lot of money went.
He was cheating and one of his girlfriends told me that he wasn't looking for a job, he was at a local hangout with friends. She lived next door and sold drugs.
She also told me to get his paychecks from him.
He was violent because he was on 'ice'.
He wasn't there for me.
Later, after I seperated from him, he cleaned up in jail and has been straight for 5 years.

I didn't know you could cook with a candle!

reply to post by Clearskies

I didn't know you could cook with a candle!

I used to sleep in a guard shed that wasn't manned at night, that had an electric heater in it. The stand up kind that sort of looks like an old radiator. A can of Chef Boyardee would fit perfectly in between the slats or rungs or whatever you call them. It took about an hour, but it would be nice and hot when you opened it. Thank god for the pop tops.

Can you imagine sleeping in a guard shack with a kid or two though, hoping you don't get caught? Or having to swipe that can of food from the Wal-Mart with kids in tow. (I've seen women who stash goods in their kids pants and stuff too.)

I also had to abandon a dog because his barking would have given me away in another place I stayed for a time. Could have gotten me killed actually, aside from being run out of a dry place to sleep.

reply to post by Clearskies



Yeah my kids father left when he got into nose candy. Looks like we may have went through a lot of the same things.

Lol yep you can cook with candles, takes a long time but it works. They also give off heat in a small room when it's cold if you have enough lit, but you have to make sure that you have ventilation.

My sons did without a lot growing up, but they had a lot of love, and they are proud of the fact that they know how to survive and they also know that i never resorted to selling drugs, stealing, or any illegal activities to raise them.

Ok now i have to say that both of my sons were adorable too, and have grown into very handsome men and i know have two beautiful grandbabies