Disgusting election taints ATS... Stand up and shut up!

Originally posted by Quazga

Lloyd I think it has something to do with the fact that the hypocrisy of the person, should have nothing to do with the merit or validity of the statement made.

I think the hypocrisy they exhibit has everything to do with the validity or merit of their message. It attest to their honesty and integrity. If you can't see that, there's something seriously wrong with your moral compass..

Does a hypocrit dilute the message by being one, yep he sure does to those who don't have the ability to differntiate between the individual and the message, as well as to see how the individual's experience influences the message.

If a person intentionally tries to deceive me, their credibility rating drops to zero. At that point, their message is unimportant because it's probably as false as they are. "Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me"..

However, critical thinkers understand the message is what is important. A message should be weighed on its merits not by who said it. And so the attempt to point out the hypocrisy of the author of a post only serves to deride the focus from the merits of the statement.

The message is only important if it is truthful, and comes from a credible source. I don't think anyone here would be willing to risk their life or livelihood on the word of a hypocrit.. Would you?

If I post something worthless, I expect it, not me, to be seen as such. If I then post something of merit, I also expect it, not me, to be seen as such. People often do confuse the messenger with the message, but it is a fault to do so I believe.

If you are both the author and the messenger, then it should be fully attributable to you.


[edit on 3-8-2008 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by Riposte
So, he's trying to dictate what should and should not be discussed.

No, he's offering an option for those of us who are sick of these stupid threads attacking on baseless grounds. It is an option for US. He's not trying to shut people up. You (or anyone) are free to discuss away. Attack all you like. But when people encourage those bottom-feeder discussions by responding to them and defending the candidates against insane accusations, we are actually feeding the insanity that we profess to hate.

And Jethro is reminding us of our power to ignore. Our power to shut up.

And I for one am grateful for the reminder.

reply to post by LLoyd45


Let's go back to the encryption scenario we spoke of before. It doesn't matter what type of person wrote the cipher, what matters is if the cipher is worth a darn.

Now you may not want to spend money on purchasing the algorithm for use if you really have personal issues with the author, however it does not speak to the integrity of the cipher at all.

Originally posted by LLoyd45
I think the hypocrisy they exhibit has everything to do with the validity or merit of their message.

That is actually a logical fallacy.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No, he's offering an option for those of us who are sick of these stupid threads attacking on baseless grounds.

That option already exists; and he's trying to make people take a proactive approach to killing threads.

Nobody can kill a thread except a mod.

And threads that I think KJ, myself and others here are talking about are stupid and disrespectful of ATS don't deserve to live, in my opinion. And they certainly don't deserve to have me feeding them.

And if they die of neglect... Oh, well.

But if you want to keep them alive, you can. See how that works?

[edit on 3-8-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Quazga
Let's go back to the encryption scenario we spoke of before. It doesn't matter what type of person wrote the cipher, what matters is if the cipher is worth a darn.

Now you may not want to spend money on purchasing the algorithm for use if you really have personal issues with the author, however it does not speak to the integrity of the cipher at all.

Your encryption scenario reminds me of a computer term GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out). A program is only as good as the programmer's information and coding ability.

In the case of your cipher, it's only worth something if the the author is credible and the information reliable.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And threads that I think KJ, myself and others here are talking about are stupid and disrespectful of ATS don't deserve to live, in my opinion.

And they certainly don't deserve to have me feeding them.

That's pretty much what I do.

I simply no longer bother to respond to most of the "Obama stole a donut" threads, because they're silly, and lower the level of debate on the board. I have the same policy towards "McCain stole a donut" threads, though there aren't nearly as many

It seems other people are doing the same thing, as more and more of these types of threads are falling off the top of the page with only a few replies, usually from the 'usual suspects'...

That's not censorship, that's audience participation.

We all have the right to free speech.
We also have the right to ignore someone else's free speech if we decide it's a silly bunch of nonsense

[edit on 8/3/08 by xmotex]

Ok, I've read everyone's opinion thus far and have seen things I knew would happen but disregarded when I started the thread because I thought the opinion was important enough to stick my neck out.

At this point, I think we need a moment of levity so that I may clarify misconceptions about my post and ideals.

I have been around here quite a long time, so many people know my personality, opinions, and reputation. I attempt to be civil and respectable at all times, although let's be fair, we all have bad days and sour moods now and again. I have seen a fair bit of misunderstanding and sour remarks/moods from some newer members who might not know me so well. It's understandable. I answer all questions asked of me unless I do not see the question (which happens in a place with this many threads).

To me, a persons political affiliations and sway has far less impact than the method they employ with which to opine.

I have no interest in trying to sway things around here aside from reminding people that we have the choice to elevate our discourse, NOT to eliminate topics, only those who attempt to achieve the lowest common denominator (which is common in American culture, media, and education so it's hard to really blame people sometimes, but then again they have a brain and should use it).

I feel no pity for trolls and baiters, and yes that is my opinion, but then again many agree with me so I am not alone by any stretch.

I do not suffer intentional fools well, and I don't recommend others do either, but I leave your actions up to you. I only wished to express mine before the toxic ocean washes over us and leaves us empty and unsatisfied yet again.

Thanks
KJ

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yeah, so basically this whole thread is pointless, like I said.

what the op is saying is ....

leave barrack alone!!!!!!!

Chris crocker style.


basically if you don't like barrack don't post in this forum.
it offends him.
At least thats how i take the op's statement.

gotcha...

Originally posted by xmotex
There is little or no debate on the actual issues, and plenty of silly purely symbolic drivel, baseless innuendo, etc...

For starters, I do see a lot of debate on actual issues however there is more to a candidate than his viewpoint on a particular issue and this is where things get a little muddy.

For instance, character and judgement are also very important for a Presidential candidate because it affects how and why he would make a particular decision especially when a crisis arises.

The problem is one person might think past associations and credibility is very important because it's shows character and judgement, while others might think it's drivel and baseless with no bearing on the candidate being President. So one person might think having past associations with a terrorist and an American hating pastor is relevant and another person might think it's not relevant.

Originally posted by beforetime
what the op is saying is ....

leave barrack alone!!!!!!!

Chris crocker style.


basically if you don't like barrack don't post in this forum.
it offends him.
At least thats how i take the op's statement.

gotcha...

Where did he mention Obama? He's talking about inane threads. PERIOD! I will go one further though and state that the right does this far more than the lefty's here.

reply to post by intrepid


but if you can't talk bad about a certain aka candidate..
when someone makes a thread how his tears cure cancer.

and so on...

you know the man walks on water...

so you got to have it both way's otherwise...your crying someone is talking about your candidate..its simple.

and more people start crap about obama...including myself lol...why because obama cultist's get so mad lol
and it's flat funny.

but the point is.. if you can't agree a forum is allso to disagree..
they shouldn't post to start with.

i ment heck i see attack America now ..thread..i take offense at.

but you speak badly of lets say gay's..spreading aid's as 53% of gay men in America have hiv.
mod's disagree and delete thread.... say its bigot and so forth.

but if 53% of gay men in America had hiv... gay men in America are the main spreader's of hiv in America plain and simple..

but the thread gets deleted..because none can agree to disagree..and leave it at that.

if you can see my point good mod sir

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

I also see full time haters, bigots, fools, and liars with little interest in reasoned discussion which further promotes animosity and foul threads around here.

There is thread after thread after thread of trash talk, unsubstantiated slander, and a serious lack of meaty conversation many times.

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about!

I found this one in the "Breaking Political News" forum of all places!

Hitler Would Vote for McCain-MLK for Obama

MLK- Martin Luther King- who gets a holiday for his visionary conduct-
was against the Vietnam war-was against all wars and violence for that matter.
Violence and war is all that McCain's knows.
It's so obvious that McCain (and Bush for that matter) would get Hitler's vote.
McCain would get Charles Manson's vote.
Obama would get Bobby Kennedy's vote.
McCain would get Satan's vote.
Obama would get Jesus's and Ghandhi's vote.
McCain would get Ted Stevens (the indicted felon Senator from Alaska's) vote.
Obama would get Nobel Peace Prize winner Al Gore's vote.

And NO! I'm not complaining about this particular thread because I'm a McCain fan either, I am far from being a McCain fan!

As far as you can get from it!!!

It's just not a very productive, pointless, childish, negative, ranting thread.

[edit on 8/3/2008 by Keyhole]

reply to post by beforetime


Frankly I don't care about Obama or McCain, in fact I'm not even American. I DO care about ATS and these threads bring the intelligence curve on the board to near zero.

Here's a thought, why not put forth YOUR candidate in a positive manner rather than just a smear campaign on the opposite one?

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by beforetime

 

Frankly I don't care about Obama or McCain, in fact I'm not even American. I DO care about ATS and these threads bring the intelligence curve on the board to near zero.

Here's a thought, why not put forth YOUR candidate in a positive manner rather than just a smear campaign on the opposite one?

Thank you intrepid. I've enjoyed this site for a long time and have had to bring this topic up before. You and I have butted heads quite a few times and always with excellent debate.

It helps, some, to bring the idea of reasonable debate back to the forefront.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


Krazy!! All I had to do was read your OP, and you get a star and flag.

What the heck does "Above Top Secret" have anything to do with the American Presidential Election cycle???

IMO, the 'Politics' forum, or forae as appropriate, have been used incorrectly....instead of uncovering possible conspiracies, they have seem to become sounding boards for regular political discussions and arguments.

Enough!! I say........

ps....why do we not see similar behavior when other nations hold elections??

Excellent, ignore them, If you don't like what you read on ATS.. turn the page... love it or leave it.

Originally posted by intrepid
Where did he mention Obama? He's talking about inane threads. PERIOD! I will go one further though and state that the right does this far more than the lefty's here.

Haha, he doesn't even have to mention Obama. It's as clear as day, and his silence about whom he supports speaks volumes.

And don't bother backing up that last statement of yours, because it's a lie.