New Energy Policies in Spain. Vision of the Future for the USA?

Spain has seen the future and it is slow, dim and uncomfortable. A swingeing series of energy-saving measures announced by the Spanish government may be a foretaste of the kind of policies which will be forced upon an energy-hungry industrial world in the coming decades

According to this article, the government in Spain is putting in place energy policies which will reduce their speed limits as well as put limitations on how much energy can be used for heating and cooling of public buildings.

Of course there is nothing wrong with taking measures to conserve energy. In fact, it should be encouraged. But this seems to be a bit too much in my opinion. Actually it looks like one more way for the powers that be to excercise control over the daily activities of the population.

Are these the kind of policies we can expect here in the USA if the environmentalist, socialist liberals have their way with us?

Here is the link to the article.
www.independent.co.uk...

In the liberals mind, curbing consumption by returning to the stone age if necessary seem to be virtues of greater importance than saving the lives of innocents. In fact since humans are an evil species it is good for many of them to die. Hence we should all be in third world conditions. After all don't we need to get back down to a manageable 500 million world population? We need some mechanism therefore to kill 90% of the population.

reply to post by SevenThunders


Well it does seem to look more and more like the whole energy crisis has been completely manufactured for the purpose of a power-grab of some kind. The article mentioned that some of the people in Spain are not very happy with their government for putting these new policies in place. Yet the government continues with its decided course of action regardless of whether the citizenry groans about it or not.

Kind of reminds me of what is happening here in the USA right now. More and more people are wanting to hurry up and drill for oil here on our own territory. More and more people are seeing the wisdom in taking advantage of our own resources. Yet, any attempts to do so have been blocked by the eco-nazis lurking in our government. They get asked to lift the ban on drilling and what do they do? They avoid the issue by going on vacation!!!

But the point of the matter is this. What they are doing in Spain right now is exactly what will happen here if Nancy Pelosi and all of these other whackaloons have their way.

Now wait a second here.

As for the heating/cooling of public buildings, sound a lot like CAFE (Minimun fuel economy numbers) rules in the US.

The general idea is right, cut down on waste and they can cut down on oil imports (presuming they use oil for power generation).

IN California, they urge heat settings @ 68 in winter and 76-78 in summer, to cut down on energy usage.

Looks like the price of oil is really starting to hurt many countries.

reply to post by Lightmare


In the US we are a nation ruled by consumers without brakes.

The Spanish were said to be the most efficient users of energy after Germany, followed by France and Italy.

The Uk worst energy wasters in Europe with bad habits which could cost £11bn by 2010, a survey of Europe's five most populous nations suggests.

news.bbc.co.uk...

So the people in Spain is not complaining they are use of been the most energy efficient country in the world.

This save the people in Spain millions.

Is nothing wrong with preserving energy.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043



Actually, it seems that many people in Spain are not happy about this at all.

From the article:

To protests from motorists and mockery in parts of the press, the Socialist government plans to cut motorway speed limits to 50mph and town speeds to 25mph. New austerity rules will be imposed on the air conditioning and heating of all public buildings. Street-lighting will be cut by half.

www.independent.co.uk...

As far as out of control consumerism goes in the USA, it is all just part of being an over populated country. I also think its pretty safe to say that what works in Spain would not go over so well here in the USA.

The USA is at a crossroads. We have a choice to make. We can either start using every availible resource to become energy independent and have plenty of energy to go around. Or we can continue to import our fuel and end up in a nightmare of trying to ration limited amounts of energy to a very large population.

Well at least in Spain people still have the right to complain about what their government is doing.

Perhaps the goal of the government in Spain is to completely become independat from oil.

I feel very sad every time I see people here in America wanting to go for more drilling that actually will not benefit if any the American pockets until we are to old to even drive.

But then again is all about big oil companies and their greed.

Still I see nobody in our for the people elected government trying to bring solutions to the dependency to oil because most of them are sleeping in bed with middle eastern wealthy oil producing Nations and with the oil barons.

That is the only way to go to stop the oil drug addition, alternative energies.

reply to post by marg6043


Well I think the ultimate goal for every country is to eventually get away from fossil fuels and begin using energy sources that are clean and renewable. That goes without saying. In the long run, we really have no choice. Make no mistake, it is in the works. It will happen. But the transition will not be easy, cheap, or quick. That means that we need to take steps to ensure that we have enery for the short term as well as the long term. If that means drilling for our own oil, then we need to get on with it and stop wasting time in hope that all the new "green" technology is just going to magically appear overnight. Long term goals are great but we need to take care of the short term as well. That is why I say we need to drill and we need to do it now.

Also, don't fool yourself. Even if we get away from the fossil fuels that currently fuel our cars and infrastructure, we will still be using oil for other purposes. Even if we have cars that run on electric or hydrogen power, we will still need oil for lubricating the engine parts. There is no way around it.

Petroleum products are also used to make everything from CDs, TVs, and even the computer you are using right now. Like it or not, the use of oil will not be going away anytime soon.

That is why oil products should be secondary in the need to our countries consumption then our own oil resources will be plentiful to support those needs.

But as today oil is our biggest dependency and what has made oil producing middle eastern nations the wealthy nations of today and counting.

The time will come when it will be a big decision on how to deal with the oil dependency but right now is to profitable for corporate America to let go.

At the rate China car buying is going with a future in the car business itself you pretty much can tell who will surpass US in oil dependency in a very near future.

reply to post by marg6043


China will eventually find itself at the same crossroads the USA is at. Not anytime soon though. At the moment, they are one of the nations that are currently taking advantage of oil resources just 60 miles off our very own US shores. Which begs the question, if they can do it, why can't we?

Basically, countries like Russia and China are using our own evironmental policies against us. While we in the USA are busy bickering about the environmental impacts of off-shore drilling, countries from the other side of the globe are laying claim to these oil reserves and planning to drill for them. Since our policies have no effect on what they can or cannot do, they will get away with it. Off-shore drilling will take place regardless of whether the environmentalists in this country want it to or not. They are not really protecting the environment, they are just stopping us from going after our own resources. That is a major factor in the rising cost of fuel and the falling Amercan dollar. Not the only factor, but a very big one.

That is why we need to take charge and start using the resources we have access to. We need to drill for our own oil while not neglecting the pursuit of clean,renewable energy. This energy crisis is a monster that we need to do battle with on all fronts. We should use all availible options.

[edit on 8/3/2008 by Lightmare]

[edit on 8/3/2008 by Lightmare]

Hey, In Canada,Toronto here, I was reading the news paper. Apparently soon, the electricity rate is going to go up and down base on certain time of the day when you use electricity. For an example, between 7am to 11 am, is going to cost you 5.2 cents, 11am-5pm, is going to cost you 3.5 cents, and 5pm to 12am is going to cost you 7 cents. This is just a example. I'm not sure whats the correct rate, but it's suppose to make us conserve electricity if we don't want a big fat bill at the end of each month. Controlling how we use electricity?

The problem is that drilling in US is not going to alleviate the oil crisis of today.

Why do you think McCain has abandon the idea from his campaign? because he knows that is not going to help anything or anybody perhaps in our life time.

And when the help comes, guess what things will be in a better light with other alternatives after US Americans get fed up with the oil dependency.

reply to post by Awarenessiskey


Sounds like they're charging the rates in way that will maximize their profits. Charging a higher rate during hours when most people are using electric lights, watching prime time TV, and surfing the internet.

It probably will cause some people to use less electricity just so they don't pay an arm and leg for their electric bills. Most will probably just roll with the punches though.

The other day I heard on the radio that electricity costs will go up by about twenty-five percent here in Ohio during the next few months. It makes me wonder how many people will be rushing out to get those new energy saving lightbulbs.

[edit on 8/3/2008 by Lightmare]

reply to post by marg6043


Actually, drilling WILL cause the cost of oil to go down. Those who claim the opposite are just buying into the psuedo-environmentalist propaganda.

The fact is, it all has to do with very basic supply and demand. People are going out of their way to drive more energy efficient cars and conserve gas. This alone will cause a slight decrease in demand while drilling will increase supply. More supply plus less demand plus competition in the market equals lower costs. There is no way around it.

Also people have rightly pointed to speculators who have driven up the cost of oil. But the speculators can also work in our favor. Almost immediatly after President Bush announced that he was lifting the presidential part of the moratorium on off-shore drilling, the cost of oil started to drop. Not by much, but it did drop slightly. Why? Because the speculators began to speculate on increased supply and decreased demand. So imagine what will happen when we actually do start drilling for oil. Yes, the price will drop.

It is true that we may never again see gas drop below $1.50 per gallon. But at this point, even if gas went back down to $2.00 per gallon, the effect on our economy would be a positive one.

[edit on 8/3/2008 by Lightmare]

Honestly... All I see is Rich people, getting Richer.

reply to post by Awarenessiskey


Yep. Its a cold, hard fact of life. It is important to remember that those who run the energy industries are not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They are, in fact, in business to make money.

But if you think about it, it is really no different from you or I. We don't work our jobs just for the sake of having something to do. We go to work to make money. It is no different with those who own and run their own business. That includes the big energy companies. If profits are not made, the business cannot continue to operate. And that means no infrastructure for the population.

It is just the nature of the way things work.

[edit on 8/3/2008 by Lightmare]

reply to post by Lightmare


I've heard that the democrats are opposing local drilling because they want to devlop alternatives to fossil fuels. However I see no real progress in that area, only lip service. Eventually they too will demand a curb on consumption. This will make us into some kind of economic slaves I suppose.

reply to post by SevenThunders


Yes they do want to get off of oil and switch to alternative energy. That is actually a good thing. What the majority of them have failed to realise, however, is even if major progress toward that goal were made today, it would still take anywhere from ten to twenty years for the infrastructure, transportation industry, and society as a whole to make the transition. Perhaps even longer than that, depending on how flexible, and how reliable the new technology is.

Why the eco-nazi, psuedo-environmentalists refuse to take note of that cold, hard fact is beyond me. Although I have plenty of reasons to suspect that they have a much more nefarious, hidden agenda at heart. And it has nothing to do with saving the environment.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by Lightmare

 

I've heard that the democrats are opposing local drilling because they want to devlop alternatives to fossil fuels. However I see no real progress in that area, only lip service.

Well look, if Dubyah didn't sink untold trillions of dollars into Iraq, the money could have been put to better uses such as energy research. Truth is (and I work in research) that science budgets aren't doing well these days.

reply to post by Lightmare


Actually the truth behind that is suppose to be Physiological in an effort to force oil producing countries to increase production to lower the prices.

This worked back in the 90s but now is not going to work because we now have the speculators manipulating the oil markets.

Back in the 90s the government even put aside a budget to pursue oil alternatives, after the prices of oil were dramatically reduced the budget was forgotten.