Here's a question for all you geniuses out there...

Btw...

I don't have a masters degree in Economics...

I'm an executive chef.

Oil tycoons, there's 7 of them you know, the seven sisters, they obsess on the pleiades, they are in business because we need their product, to say they are a main source of income for the illuminati would be obvious, can't really do much about it except to support alternate fuels & research, but with them supposedly killing top scientists attempting to do just that their control won't be lost easily.

well you dont have to be a genius to figure out that the NWO figureheads behind exxon and the banking cartels wont be too sad about that news, as alsways. and wait for their time.

Originally posted by Slothrop
reply to post by verbal kint

 

why do people fear and hate success so much?

Because they aren't the ones that are successful. Jealousy is a innate human trait driven by instinct. It promotes competition among each other so that the best and strongest always survive and prosper, and create offspring that are also strong and successful. It's Natures law.

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
Their business is selling oil. When oil prices are high they are going to make a bunch of money. Their mission to their shareholders is to make as much money as possible for as long as possible. It is not to look out for the general public.

Do I agree that this should be the case? No. The system sucks. I do not think that any resource that is vital to the well being of the general populance should be in the hands of a for profit organization. that would include health care, telecommunications, basic food, water, sewage, energy/electricity, highways, etc. The quest for profit almost guarantees that these companies will not act in the benefit of the majority of the people.

Blame the system not the company. As long as oil is the driver of our energy program these companies will rake it in. Don't bitch about their profits, bitch about why such a neccesary part of everyday life is in the hands of profiteers.

Well said. Although I would blame people not the system. If you were to take those key providers out of private hands then they must, by definition, be in public hands. Kiss of death that idea with the public due to the illogical and fear mongering link with "tree hugging liberals", "commies" and the like...

We buy it and they make the profits. And that profit CNN shows is not including expenses. Where's the profit margin? Google makes more profits than the oil companies do, but are we gonna do something about that? No, because we don't hate google. Why are we trying to punish companies that are doing good? Is this the new America? " HEY!! You're doing to good while my business is doing nothing so you should be punished!!" It's called a free market folks. The profit of government taxes on fuel is higher than what the oil companies make. And now the government wants a "windfall profit tax " added to the mix. More money for government, less jobs for consumers, higher gas prices etc...

When our government dictates what prices should be for a business then we are living in a communist country without a free market and without chose. These high prices on fuel and the record so call profits the oil companies are making is not their fault. Look back in history and you'll see that there are no new refineries, environmentalists have stalled drilling for oil and there's 90% of oil in America that hasn't been touched. Raising taxes are not going to help us out and I bet it will hurt us in the long run, just look back to the 1980's when they tried it.

All those taxes collected by our government and no new energy has been discovered, no new refineries. Nothing has been done except buying oil from other counties. Until we can find new resources and better environmental resources we have to use oil and stop bringing our country down. Free market does work but we have to leave government out of it.

Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
I dont need a IQ of 140 to understand supply vs demand. They are selling us 4 dollar a gallon gas because we will pay it.

You shouldn't need a IQ of even 100 to understand that supply and demand are not at all clear cut issues even in ideal 'free markets' which the US/World must certainly is not. If you have managed by hook and by crook to achieve the means to control a certain supply while also managing to ensure that alternatives are not readily competitive you have created the conditions by which you can restrict the supply as you wish secure in the knowledge that you have thus at least temporary control over how much of the demand you will satisfy.

The reason why people are starving is not because there are not sufficient demand but because the suppliers are in such a powerful position that they can choose to just not meet that specific demand at what those individuals can afford to pay. Since this is the case the obvious question arises if even free markets would be a good thing if they will eventually prove to be equally unresponsive? What should be question of markets and what should be questions of morality and human rights? What is the public domain and why should we let private for profit parties into those spaces?

Stellar

Originally posted by Solarskye
We buy it and they make the profits.

Not a problem as long as they are not breaking laws ( collusion etc). Since they are it's a problem.

And that profit CNN shows is not including expenses. Where's the profit margin?

In 2005, ExxonMobil surpassed Wal-Mart as the world's largest publicly held corporation when measured by revenue, although Wal-Mart remained the largest by number of employees.[18] ExxonMobil's $340 billion revenues in 2005 were a 25.5 percent increase over their 2004 revenues. ExxonMobil has committed roughly 0.4% of their profits (0.04% of total revenue) towards researching alternative energy[19], significantly less than other leading oil companies.

In 2006, Wal-Mart recaptured the lead with revenues of $348.7 billion against ExxonMobil's $335.1. ExxonMobil continues to lead the world in both profits ($39.5 billion in 2006) and market value ($460.43 billion).[20]

As the cost per gallon of gasoline has continued to rise, there is criticism of the petroleum industry in general and ExxonMobil in particular, about their profitability[21], although their profit margin of 10% remains well under other sectors such as pharmaceuticals and banking. [22].

As of April 01, 2008 ExxonMobil occupied all 10 slots for Top Corporate Quarterly Earnings of all Time.

en.wikipedia.org...

"There".

Google makes more profits than the oil companies do, but are we gonna do something about that?

No because we can do without google but not without oil. We use google because it's convenient whereas with oil we use it because it's almost impossible because it is exceedingly, if not impossible, to do without it. Google does not ,btw, make more profit than Exxon.

No, because we don't hate google. Why are we trying to punish companies that are doing good?

What is so good about about Exxon Mobil? Do they not mine the resources that belongs to the people of the various countries they operate in while only paying measly taxes? What's so great about that?

Is this the new America? " HEY!! You're doing to good while my business is doing nothing so you should be punished!!"

These are not mom&pop operations and they were NEVER what Adam Smith intended with "invisible hand" or "freedom to trade'. These corporations do not strive to enrich the world or to 'do good' but the maximize profits and control by restricting the size of the pie and making waves while not allowing the tide to rise .

It's called a free market folks. The profit of government taxes on fuel is higher than what the oil companies make.

There is nothing free about the so called free market and i am not surprised that the government that enables vast oil profits would demand a good cut of it which will enable it to buy aircraft carriers and destroy oil producing nations thus ensuring that oil company profits will keep rising.

Tell me if your not following ....

And now the government wants a "windfall profit tax " added to the mix.

Yeah sure? They are after all experiencing the backlash that comes from prosecuting illegal wars and getting young American men and women killed. Wouldn't you want a larger cut off the pie if you were risking your political future?

More money for government, less jobs for consumers, higher gas prices etc...

The oil business itself is by no means labor intensive so lets not kid ourselves that they are providing jobs that industrialized solar/wind turbine/tidal generators or hydro developments could not.

When our government dictates what prices should be for a business then we are living in a communist country without a free market and without chose.

There is no free market to speak of anywhere on this planet and until most governments become truly representative we will only know what the people want and that they are making slow progress in getting it.

These high prices on fuel and the record so call profits the oil companies are making is not their fault.

How can profits achieved by design be a 'fault'? What does it matter if they make that profit by massive government subsidy or by stealing the national treasures of so many countries when we know that they will continue to do whatever they can get away with to reward their shareholders?

Look back in history and you'll see that there are no new refineries, environmentalists have stalled drilling for oil and there's 90% of oil in America that hasn't been touched.

Absolutely. What is however VERY surprising is the fact that environmentalist have had so much success in doing all these things when the far larger anti-war movement or movements for living wages and the like are achieving such comparative small success? Is it not as obvious to you as it is to me that that movements who are so very successful so very fast are mostly so because they are playing into the hands of capitalist?

Raising taxes are not going to help us out and I bet it will hurt us in the long run, just look back to the 1980's when they tried it.

Raising taxes on corporations is only appropriate while they use the natural resources that is under OUR land. WE could exploit our own resources by the taxes we generally pay if only such industries were nationalized and thus in the public domain. As long as we can have vigorous democracies where the people's wishes are enacted we have no need of corporations and profits because all corporations will serve the common good of their host countries.

All those taxes collected by our government and no new energy has been discovered, no new refineries.

Because that was never the intent! Governments and energy companies collude because governments are mostly composed of the corporate classes and thus in their service to further their common ends in gaining as much control as they can of their consumers by restricting as best they can their access to energy and resources.

Nothing has been done except buying oil from other counties.

Which is necessitated by their aim of attempting to control the flow of energy and resources the world over. If you can't after all find apparently good reasons to intervene in foreign countries you can't very well us the armed forces of various nations to enforce your corporate will. The reason they are attempting to destroy resource/capitol barriers between nations is not because they are trying to spread 'freedom' but because they wish to create a 'common good'( everyone and everything connected; a global house of cards if you will ) which they hope to abuse by destroying all social systems that attempts independence from a centralized corporate new world order.

Until we can find new resources and better environmental resources we have to use oil and stop bringing our country down. Free market does work but we have to leave government out of it.

Vacuum energy extraction technologies ( to say nothing of solar,wind, hydro and tidal power) have been possible for more than a hundred years so basically the oil age never had to happen. Since the market has never been free it is therefor hardly surprising that governments are co opted and prevented from doing what their voters in fact wanted.

Stellar

Originally posted by TheRedneck
I dunno, maybe they sold an awful lot of gas, diesel, heating oil, propane... did you buy any of it?

I was waiting on this thread ever since I heard the story. Their purpose is to make money. If the product is too expensive, you can always quit using it.
TheRedneck

Ummmmm. No. You cant. Thats the whole point of Anti-trust legislation.

en.wikipedia.org...

banning abusive behaviour by a firm dominating a market, or anti-competitive practices that tend to lead to such a dominant position. Practices controlled in this way may include predatory pricing, tying, price gouging, refusal to deal, and many others.

The entire infrastructure of our nation is currently set up right now to run on fossil fuels. It is VERY expensive to get yourself "off the grid" and a bit flippant to suggest that someone could just stop buying petroleum products at whim.

And as another poster suggested, we dont NEED oil companies. We can just as easily let them go sulk in the corner and not produce oil if thats what they chose to do instead of competing in a non-fixed market. We could stop spending our tax dollars on wars that favor their interests and profits, and we could set up a national (public) oil company. We have choices, just sucking up what ever price a company decides to set or not using the product at all is NOT the only choices we have. We could enforce our anti-trust laws, set up public companies to compete, etc.

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


Very interesting discussion here.

My 2 cents. The $ has been dropping like a rock in the past few years. Oil is traded in $'s. That alone contributes to 15 to 20% of the amount that Exxon claims is profit. A few years back, the Bushies gave substantial tax breaks for businesses to buy SUV's and pickup's. You could write off up to 50% of the cost. Looking back, don't you think they planned for all of this to happen? C'mon now... 2 oil men in the whitehouse and everyone is blaming the "speculators". Remember, back in 2002, Paul Wolfowitz claimed that the war in Iraq wouldn't cost much because their oil would cover it......umm sure.

Originally posted by Topspike
Isen't it about time to drop the 2-3 cars per family, and get over your ego's.

What's wrong with cars? Sure we should do what we can to make them more energy efficient and safe but lets not mess with independence of movement.

Start carpooling to and from work... take the damn bus, you can even snoose to and from work.

Your not from America are you? What's up with this carpooling thing any ways? Does anyone but those who can't afford the alternative actually put up with that kind of misery?

Instead of driving 1/2 mile to pick up a few items at the store, walk. Stop lining the pockets of those motherf..... fat cats, dealing that black gold.

While not many may like the black gold provider most realise that they have little power to change that as it stands. When we can have actual democratic representation then we may be able to change how our energy economy functions.

It really pisses me off, that the music industry keeps catering to these company's as well. Seem's like every artist in the damn neighborhood, needs to have at least 1 or 2 trick'd out SUV's.

Well the government did at one time provide a massive tax deduction on a SUV purchase if you owned a small business.... Why wouldn't big oil fund a few rap moguls to spread their particular brand of wealth ?

Bigger cars and bling bling, that's all young kids see these days on MTV. It's time to wise up America...

So how are they going to wise up if that's all they see?

It wouldn't take many days without driving, b4 things got alittle better.

For who? Those poor sods who walk all those miles to work or are irritated senseless by the carpool 'friends'?

Hell how many hours a week, do you actually have to work, just to pay to get to work.

It's time to STRIKE

A few but there have always been costs associated with making a living.

Stellar

With all due respect... Please somone show me where it is against the law to make money.

Do I think the oil companies are squeezing us, yes, but since when do we have a right to say a company can only make so much money? The last I checked this was still a mostly free rebublic.

What should really make us mad is the federal (read: taxpayer) bailout of Freddie and Fannie. I read an astoundingly simple explanation of what is happening.

We are going to be receiving a tax bill for this bailout of two very large companies. So, why were we never receiving any of profits?
Something ludicrous and dangerous is happening right under our noses and we're all worried about the oil companies. Gee wiz.

Worry more about this mostly free rebublic becoming a mostly publicly funded socialist experiment.

reply to post by verbal kint


First, no I don't think there is wrong with anyone making a huge profit. As long as they aren't leveraging their new found power to form a nationalist or totalitarian state. (And no, you can't count the consumer dialectic all participants in the free market share as totalitarian.)

Now in the free market economy, Most of these profits are realized by stock holders. The problem here, was even though they had a huge profit, they fell short of wall street projections. Which places a damper on the speculators.

That's right. Stock holders lost some money. That's how it works. Speculators speculate, and then eventually reality kicks in. So yeah, they got some record profits. The world is growing in leaps and bounds, it may subside at some point, and then come back. And even though the actual global growth, the issues in the ME, and the speculators all have an upward trending effect on the price of oil, eventually reality kicks in. Like in any bubble.

Alas, this is where the faith in true liberal capitalism comes from. Bubbles eventually burst. The cycles of Boom and Bust.


I'll tell you what I DO HAVE a problem with though, it's tax breaks for oil companies. It's the complicity of the office of the VP with so many unethical proceedings during the last 8 years which had to do with the oil companies.

They don't owe us anything, and WE, the United States also don't owe them anything. Our relationship should be purely based on capitalism and it's laws.

Their profits don't need to be examined. The office of the VP does.

I am not defending the Oil companies, but Exxon Mobile is one of the largest companies on the planet. They have enormus gross revenues. There profit margin though is lower than that of Microsoft or Pfizer. They simply just do more volume. I have not read all the replies, but I bet nobody has mentioned the fact that the federal government of the United States took 32.7 Billion dollars on taxes in the last quarter from Exxon. A company exist for the sole purpose of increasing the wealth of the stockholders and that is it. The government did nothing to earn that tax revenue. At least the Oil Companies, researched, explored, extracted, refined, and shipped the product so we could use it!

Originally posted by jascott1
I am not defending the Oil companies, but Exxon Mobile is one of the largest companies on the planet. They have enormus gross revenues. There profit margin though is lower than that of Microsoft or Pfizer. They simply just do more volume. I have not read all the replies, but I bet nobody has mentioned the fact that the federal government of the United States took 32.7 Billion dollars on taxes in the last quarter from Exxon. A company exist for the sole purpose of increasing the wealth of the stockholders and that is it. The government did nothing to earn that tax revenue. At least the Oil Companies, researched, explored, extracted, refined, and shipped the product so we could use it!

Except you don't need Microsoft or Pfizer. YOU NEED GAS!

So, like water and electricity, it should be regulated.

I'll tell you what I DO HAVE a problem with though, it's tax breaks for oil companies. It's the complicity of the office of the VP with so many unethical proceedings during the last 8 years which had to do with the oil companies.

I can understand what you are saying, but I don't think they should be taxed at all. Most people that have a good understanding of economics know that companies don't pay taxes. They pass that along to the consumer in the price of the product. If you eliminated coporate taxes prices would become cheaper, and the economy as a whole would become more prosperous. More companies would move their bases here because it would be more advantagous to conduct business here. Lower priced goods and more jobs......Ireland is an escellent example of this. They have some of the lowest corporat tax rated in the developed world (17.4%) and their economy is booming. Ours is 35% and our economy is faultering. Businesses are leaving left and right.

reply to post by jascott1


Fed tax rate on gas is 18 cents. So 18 cents of that gallon is taxes.

Except you don't need Microsoft or Pfizer. YOU NEED GAS!

So, like water and electricity, it should be regulated.

I think alot of people would argue that the modern world probably would not be the same without the software provided by Microsoft or the life saving medication offered be Pfizer.

I just feel that if you heavily regulate an industry like this you will drive down profits and drive away capital investments which allow a company to research, expand, and be cometitive and efficient. I think regulation will only lead to higher fuel prices.

Fed tax rate on gas is 18 cents. So 18 cents of that gallon is taxes.

You are talking about the taxes assessed directly to the consumer. I am talking about the tax that is assessed to a corporation's earnings.

There is Apple, or Linux as a substitute. And there are generic knock offs for meds. There are no generic knockoffs for oil.