Can the Brain live forever?

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posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 07:38 AM
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Do search on dr John Lorber. He once found a student at his school with less than 1mm of cerebral tissue. That student gained an honours degree in mathematics.

Roger Lewin, "Is Your Brain Really Necessary,"
Science, Dec. 12,1980, p. 1232


I am of the opinion that consciousness is not a product of the brain. It survives death, and there is actual scientific evidence for that in the research done by Pim v Lommel.
In fact I think that matter is a product of consciousness. Which will be a huge paradigm shift once more people realize that.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by TheBandit795]




posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


I guess than if the heart were to go into a-fib the brain will be ok than...NOT. If the heart misses beats, the brain is affected. My point was the 5 senses are needed to maintain a brains ability to recognize a reality it is embodied to. The brain also sends the electrical signals (3) to the heart muscle for it to beat. They rely on each other.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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Peepers: that's not how it works, I am not the one to tell you how this works, besides, I'm only recently down the path so to speak. What I will say is once you abandon a priori skepticism and try some spiritualist experimentalism and tie it in with such things as meditation and the solfeggio frequencies, for example, well, you're eyes, all 3 of them, might start to open and you might realise there's more layers to the fractal.

But at it's core human transcendence is an individual journey I think. Just don't have fear and have fun finding out, and you'll atract your likeness.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 03:18 PM
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@Epsillion70:

Obviously medical science is not exact as there are many many many 'textbook' cases that don't go as they technically should according to medical science. What this is telling us, is that we just don't know enough about the body to say 'textbook case'.

As I mentioned, a hologram is a hologram not matter what. You can't have a 'fake hologram' and still call it a hologram. The holographic brain theory is bunk science. If it was indeed holographic in nature, anyone and everyone should have no issues surrounding brain damage, not even a slightest bit.

@TheBandit795:

Thank you, I have heard about this before. What it does leave out is the important role that 'white matter' plays in the brain. I'm not sure if that discovery was after this article or if the author just decided to leave that out for shock and awe value.

@peepers:

That is total bull that the brain needs all five senses. You know it, I know it, the deaf know it and the blind know it. Unless you want to argue with the latter two that their brains aren't able to maintain a clear picture of reality and that what they think is real is in fact wrong just because your ability to hear and see are more developed then theirs. Good job.

Obviously the brain is going to be affected when the heart gets all screwy. The heart pumps vital nutrients and oxygen to the brain. When it skips or fails, the brain ceases to get the massive energy requirements to function. You see the common sense here yet?

@Zepherian:

Save your money, you shouldn't let quacks employ trickery and deception to part you from your hard earned cash. Not only does it hurt your wallet, it also hurts your intelligence. First, lets remind ourselves where the spiritual world comes from. Dead people can't talk for obvious reasons, so living people tell you that there is this magical mystical paradise that you will goto after you die, if you follow a small set of rules.

Of course this all evolved into modern day quackery to include third eyes, separation of mind and flesh, super duper psychic powers. Needless to say, the energy that is actually generated by the human body is too minuscule to have any effect on its surroundings. If you try to hard to speak with your mind, most your gonna do is make a little toot noise from your behind from trying to hard.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


Nice try sirnex. I have spent, up to now, wait, let me do the math...

ah yes, the grand total of 0 on spirtualism. Choose your own currency.

And by the way, I consider the attempt to label me a gullible cult follower throwing away money of extreme bad taste, almost worse than ad hominem. You're trying to descredit me by association, when you have no idea what path I've had, because I haven't told you. Makes me wonder about your motives, except I don't care that much


I am an individual, my relationship with nature and what is hiding behind it is done on my own time, at no cost and with total freedom. Imo it's the only way to go.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by Zepherian
 


Ah, so your going to tell me then that all the concepts you have were developed on your own without reading about anyone else ideas? While it may be in bad taste for me to assume you wasted money on quackery, it is not in bad taste to let you know that your wasting a very valuable tool. Your brain. Why some people choose to automatically believe in nonsense is beyond me. Why people don't take an active role in learning just plain dumbfounds me. Do you usually believe everything you here, or just the things that sound cool?

Think about what your talking about for a minute. I mean seriously sit down and think about it for a whole month or two. Look into those claims, look into the rebuttals against them. Look into where the myths and superstitions arose that gave rise to these beliefs. Before you make a judgment on the validity of what your saying, look at it from all angles.

I've been where you are. I used to believe in all that psychic mumbo jumbo. Then I decided to look into it a little more deeper. You learn a lot more by learning then you do by believing. The brain isn't just a pretty paperweight, use it or loose it, just like any muscle in your body.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


This is not belief. I have not been conned into a faith based system. I am living my own reality, and to be honest I'm fairly methodical and sistematic on my approach to spirituality, for lack of a better word, because that's just who I am.

But just because I have a left brain dosen't mean I don't have a right brain too.

And one more thing, please don't assume you know where I am, because you do not really know. You're free to go on your own path, find your own reality, even if it is wrong, I am not your saviour and you are not mine, so let it be.

I'm just pointing out the possibility of there being another, more positive, more interesting path than all this transhumanist technological snake oil bad contemporary philosophy is selling. How much have you spent on this? Perhaps a few tens of thousands for an "education" that has left you with half a brain's (left side to be precise) worth of function?



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Zepherian
 


Actually it is a faith based belief system. A blind one at that. There is no evidence, observational nor experimental that leads one to conclude there is a spiritual, mystical, hocus pocus spook world out there. There is just people praying on the gullible minded. I'm sorry, it's harsh, but that is what reality is.

We both exist in the same 'reality'. You just don't have a really good grasp on what is real and what isn't. I am not trying to be your savior, but it would be rather rude of me to not help you in some form or other. There are no 'paths' to life, there is just life and how well you yourself will function as an individual. Personally, I find such thinking as yours to be rather destructive in terms of learning and gaining knowledge. It is a step backwards towards more primitive days when lightening and thunder were attributed to the gods above. To a time when people thought they had to perform rituals to make it rain.

I myself don't subscribe to trans humanism, yet I am able to see potential benefits for the system itself and for those who volunteer to make use of them. I am more about keeping a healthy body, mind, and longterm education. There is nothing wrong with any of those three, at least that I can think of. As I have said, I've been where you are, but then I decided to take an active role in learning everything about it, even the things that might have just knocked me on my butt and flipped my opinions on the subject. But, that is what happens when you learn, you think you know everything and then wham, you realize you were a tool. Even now I won't claim to know everything or have a perfect understanding of everything, but that is exactly why I think everyone should take an active role in lifelong education. Just because mandatory school is over doesn't mean you can or should stop learning.

It is things like active role in learning and discussions with one another like this that keep the brain healthy and functioning properly. Yet if you have no drive to look into what the other side is telling you about, nor any drive to show where you derive your opinions, then your brain will waste away from lack of use. You can't just form an opinion, leave it at that and expect the brain to become a more better tool.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


No, it's an experimentation based exploration system. I don't have a theology. I haven't, yet, found "god". I am just aware of a broader spectrum of reality than most people seem to be, because I have experienced it. And realise that some of these experiences can be shared with others, you're just out of my immediate social sphere for me to meet up and talk to you, indeed show you, about what you could do to experience things for yourself.

So do indeed give the "other side" a chance, as there is more things in heaven and earth than accepted by transhumanistic philosophy.

I do like technology, I do use it, I am not an Amish. I don't live my life by theological doctrine and dogma. Again, I am just aware of a wider spectrum, which makes me open to new age type stuff, if I can experience it myself ofc, and which makes me skeptical of establishment peddled tecnoideological movements.

I believe we are going slightly off topic, so I'm going to leave it at this. Feel free to have the last word



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 06:27 PM
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From my own understandings;
Every decision one consciously makes is based on an inherent belief system of ones mind. Beliefs make up the strands of any given matrix. And NO They dont have to be exclusively Religious, theological, Political, Socio-economical or entity based etc etc. In fact they encompass all and any facets of learning each individual has with there own experience in which their life perceptions dictates.

Even the belief in there being absolutely nothing and only a total concept of nihilism is in fact a belief in believing something which holds a belief but nihilism itself. The belief that one can belief in anything, something or nothing at all is a belief in itself of either unbelievable or believable content dependant on whether or not you find the experience of said belief believable of and in itself.
What you believe is totally up to you and how you experience it as believable or unbelievable in your understandings and individuated perceptions is your conscious choice.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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@Zepherian:

We'll continue this in a new thread then. The topic does deserve further examination and discussion.

[EDIT] Thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

@Epsillion70:

A belief is different from reality. You can believe that having two apples in front of you means you have three apples in front of you. Yet, the reality is that there are only two apples. Poor analogy, but I don't really feel like getting into it to deeply right now. We all believe different things while existing in only one universe.

What you are saying is all philosophical garbage and really has no merit towards the discussion. What a person believes is brought about by many factors, most of the time through the opinions of what others believe. It takes that special someone to come around and use his/her brain and a touch of common sense to observe the universe without making quick judgment. Before you formulate a strong belief in anything, attack the issue from all angles until only one conclusion can present itself.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by sirnex]



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by Zepherian
 


I've already experienced OBE, NDE, astral travel, ethereal. I was absolutely in absent blackness with no cognitive exploits into the other realms when under the knife.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by sirnex

@peepers:

That is total bull that the brain needs all five senses. You know it, I know it, the deaf know it and the blind know it. Unless you want to argue with the latter two that their brains aren't able to maintain a clear picture of reality and that what they think is real is in fact wrong just because your ability to hear and see are more developed then theirs.

 


The brain, to fully understand its reality, needs all 5 senses. A blind person cannot see what a non blind can, same goes with the deaf not hearing what a hearing persons brain can distinguish as sounds. Although there are degrees of sensual deficits, the total sensual deficient from birth do not know it as those who have it know. Both of these senses, besides the other 3 are cause and affect to our reflex stimulus.

If a cognitive brain is sitting in a vase, and I walk over to it and smash the jar and the brain falls to the floor in a splooch. Ya think that brain deprived of the senses would know, or care, or stimulate a reflex action. No, cause it is cut off from the 5 senses of this worlds reality to protect it from pain, injury and death.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by Peepers
 





The brain, to fully understand its reality, needs all 5 senses. A blind person cannot see what a non blind can, same goes with the deaf not hearing what a hearing persons brain can distinguish as sounds. Although there are degrees of sensual deficits, the total sensual deficient from birth do not know it as those who have it know. Both of these senses, besides the other 3 are cause and affect to our reflex stimulus.


Ok, let me clarify the original point here...

The brain can perform perfectly well with artificial organs. Given time to develop and mature, most of the technological counterparts could even surpass the functions of the organic originals. This will eventually include the brain, yet that organ won't require artificial organs once it is eventually converted to its mechanical equivalent.

What you are talking about is called total sensory deprivation and is an entirely different subject than how a brain functions with the loss of one sense. What I was trying to explain earlier is that a persons brain and ability to be self aware still function just fine with the loss of one or two senses. This is quiet obvious because we have people who are both blind and deaf and still have a good sense of what is going on around them.

Yet, I am afraid that is something you are going to have to take up with those people, whom I am not too sure are going to be happy with you telling them their physical disabilities give them a messed up sense of reality and self awareness. I wish you luck in your endeavors.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by Peepers
 


I have heard that story from several people. "I was sedated, there was nothing...". I don't find the argument very convincing, because to be honest most nights that's just how I sleep. Absolute oblivion. Yet at the same time I have experiences that show me more, which has made me think that we don't experience all of our life in linear time. Consciousness at the level of our biological body does seem to have an off switch, but that dosen't mean that the circuit can't be turned on again. I think we are fractal creatures, we can experience this level fully and none of the others or we can experience this level and others, but it's not an either/or situation. Perhaps our spirituality is part of a group mind. I honestly don't know, but a few moments of oblivion don't disprove anything, and we have the opposite experience reported too.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


I think your thinking is leading you on a path of social, ethical and moral issues. My point is, remove the senses and the brain is defenseless in situations the sense would protect a brain from injury, pain, death.

Take all the senses away from a brain and it becomes defenseless.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by Zepherian
 


I experienced the occult supernatural realm where my consciousness performed observations, interaction and stimulus. One example was, I found myself in a blackness, bathed in a luminous glow of light. I had no idea or feeling of up, down, left and right. I sensed no depth, height or width of the darkness. The firt time I was in shock because I thought I had to breath, but later, on another venture in, I realized there was no air there. I became totally aware I no longer needed air, food, warmth and all the things the senses my conscious grew to know as real, was no longer real.

After being in this situation several more times, I found my consciousness before an immense light with multitudes of light points traveling to and from the source.

I think my surgery story may have confused a few. Stop the five senses and the brain ceases to understand this reality. The conscious form as I call it remains in another realm beyond the sensual realm the human being was conditioned to believe exist.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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I see what you mean now. I think it's a fractal, consciousness. Linked with everything, yet having distinct scales which seem autonomous till you zoom in or out of them. I had a similar but very short experience to yours, except it was a white light with orb like things in it, but I was very young and the experience was very brief and since then I don't recall any similar thing, but I do sort of know what your mentioning.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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Mine can...it's pickled with various liquids containing an alcohol preservative...I don't think my liver will fare so well....lol



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 11:10 PM
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Zepherian,

I see it as not a fractal but sense it as a 360° spheroid induced quantum projection where a new conscious event is grown till it is time to expire back to the source.





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