Can the Brain live forever?

That's more or less what I meant yes. If we have a spiritual side that is integrated into not just our minds but our physical bodies, then what would be the benefit of transhumanism? We would be denying ourself our own natural spiritual evolution to some degree.

I personally feel we are tricked into living under our potential, and since we're not satisfied with what we get out of our bodies, which is far less than an enlightened person could imho, then transhumanistic philosophy takes a hold. But it's a false path because we don't really know what our natural potential is before we artificially enhance (or desfigure) it.

This is what I would like you folks to consider before putting brains in vats

maybe if you could upload it on to something...but because its biological its going to die...so artifical would be good...or some genetic manipulation.This is quite ahead in the future of course,but there is no reason why we wouldnt be able to store the mind and conscious on a *hard drive* of sort...quantum computers would have the power to do this...course looking at a 2008 perpective it looks damn impossible...but they probably said that about moblie phones 150 years ago...

I would be one of those people who would like to live forever if it were possible. Not because I am afraid of death, but because I want to be alive and see the development of the human race. I want to be there when we make new breakthroughs in science and see the world of the future. It may be possible in the future, but as it stands right now, it's not. Every cell ages over time, and eventually we hit a road block where we just can't make anymore, or they are too mutated to work. There are many theories on what exactly aging is, here's a list courtesy of wikipedia.

Eventually we will figure out how to genetically manipulate ourselves to make us live longer, but that will probably be very expensive, and not for some time.

As far as the brain itself goes, our consciousness consists of all the things that make up the brain. No one is exactly sure what makes it exist, but once the brain dies, our consciousness does as well. However, that's only a point of view from our current four dimensional universe with time. If there are parallel universes that interact with us on some level, I suppose it might be possible that the signal gets transferred somehow, but this is highly (and I stress that to the nth degree) speculative. There's also the fact that, according to string theory, the universe we live in has more than four dimensions. Do any of these have an impact on our death (another highly speculative question)? Also, as I said, our consciousness is made up of the signals that our brain creates when it works together, but is it possible to replicate that life sign somehow? Who knows, there's still a lot of research to be done in the field of neuroscience (understatement of the decade).

[edit on 9-8-2008 by OnionCloud]

[edit on 9-8-2008 by OnionCloud]

reply to post by Zepherian


Except that there is no spiritual side of anything. All we have for spiritualness is the words of living people. Any tests on a spiritual world come up negative or can be explained. There really is no indication outside of religious dogma of living people that there is anything supernatural or spiritual.

That said, I do agree that we humans do not live to our potential. I have been doing exhaustive research into what it takes to maintain a perfectly healthy body, and everyone of us fails miserably. There are a ton of things we should be doing, that we just don't bother with.

Meditation: Eases stress and relaxes the mind, giving it a break

Exercise: Not many people do enough of this. It increases strength, builds muscle and possibly increases intelligence.

Yoga: Builds strength and flexibility, as well as relaxes the body.

Fasting: Detoxifies the body. We build up so many toxins that our bodies need the extra help to be rid of them.

Calorie restriction: We just consume way to many calories. Even the RDV is grossly over estimated in my opinion. A reduction in calories can increase lifespan by 30% or more.

Drinking hot water as well as cold: Not only does water hydrate, but when drunk hot it causes us to sweat, releasing toxins through our skin.

Skin Brushing: Something I doubt any of us do, but we should. The simple act of showering isn't enough to eliminate all dead skin cells and the toxins they contain. Our skin can reabsorb those toxins if not properly removed.

Deep breathing: As we age, our breath gets quicker and shallower. We need to train our lungs to continue taking long deep breaths filling our lungs up with vital oxygen.

These are just some of the things I have come across so far. I even double checked by cross referencing medical sites just to make sure none of the information was false new age garbage. We really don't take care of ourselves as much as we think we do.

I even did a general search asking google, do people die of old age. There are a lot of sites out there that indicate that people die of disease, illness, accidents, etc. but not of just being old. I'm not sure what that means necessarily, but it is rather interesting. What if we were able to maintain proper health into old age and were able to feign off illness and disease, could we live longer then we think?

From my own understanding;
It is the "beliefs" that we each hold in our minds that either limit us or sets us free to any set given parameters on how our life will eventuate with the brain and body. That either being percieved as good or bad, lucky or unlucky, rich or poor, etc etc.
That is why there are so many seeming paradoxes and seeming probable anomalies with all the information that is espoused from all the experts of what one should or should not do, ingest or not ingest of certain substances.
With certain persons being totally exclusive of all common reasoning of said nutritional laws. These persons being able to ingest copious amounts of alcohol or cigarettes but seemingly being beyond any constraints of any kind and be physically fit and healthy and even run the odd Marathon in a descent time etc.
Then you have the reverse where an individual is a devout fitness exponent and eats to a strict dietary code and then dies seemingly innocuously in their sleep of a heart attack etc.


The brain and body are neutral in themselves and so are simply then a communication transducer medium of the mind.
Hence then the brain translates the fourier transforms signals it recieves into the common five gross basic senses that we perceive with.
The body then percieves the 17 other more refined senses.

reply to post by Epsillion70


Damn I hate it when people get to engrossed in philosophical garbage.

There is no such thing as (the following):

Good/Evil
Right/Wrong
Free will/Freedom of Choice
Lucky/Unlucky
Afterlife/God

At the surface it may appear to exist, but in reality they just simply do not.

Consciousness is another way to say self-aware, the two are the same. Self-awareness is the evolutionary mirror of a species ability to be 'empathic', in other words to know or predict what another animal will do. Again, consciousness is not a mystery, the mystery lays within exactly what areas of the brain control it. The reason why that is a mystery is because we have very little understanding of pretty much all of the brains various functions. We just don't know how the damn thing works. Not knowing how something works doesn't leave the door wide open to invent unobserved things to explain it away. Sorry, life sucks and your going to all die and rot and future generations just won't care or even know you existed. Get over it.

reply to post by sirnex


You're just laying down nihilistic dogma. Sorry, but you just don't know that. My personal life experience suggests the exact opposite of most that you defend, so I guess we don't really have much common ground here.

reply to post by sirnex


You are obviously freely entitled to what you wont to hold on to as beliefs. Though for how long, will be evident in itself when eventually there comes a time when there is no time and space and you find yourself looking at your own thought forms

Exactly what I am saying; Thank you both. Experience dictates choice, although it isn't as simple as that. There are a ton of variables that give illusion to choice.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
of course it would not last forever. all biological organisms change chemically which we call decay and old age, which result in death

think again, unimaginative skeptic know it all.


www.abc.net.au...

Scientists have stopped the ageing process in an entire organ for the first time, a study released today says.

Published in today's online edition of Nature Medicine, researchers at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine at Yeshiva University in New York City also say the older organs function as well as they did when the host animal was younger.

awwwww.. it IS possible... completely systemic eventually...

nice post OP.

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[edit on 13-8-2008 by prevenge]

I had a brain that performed rather well and performed as expected. Than I had a heart attack. This began a journey to my here and now.

The result was, my family was informed by the angio heart doctor, I was done and not much to do other than attempt open heart triple by-pass surgery.

When they brought me into surgery, my mind began to shut down and I vaguely remember seeing doctors standing around looking at me on the table and it was total darkness after that. My mind completely shut down. I was put on artificial support after my heart was stopped with a machine pumping my blood and a respirator working my lungs.

I absolutely remember nothing and its like I was in blackness till I was brought around next day in ICU. There was no dreaming, no OBE, nothing.

Heres what I believe. Once the heart is stopped, brain functions cease even though artificial means are induced. The brain needs the body to remain cognitive in this reality operating off the 5 senses.

reply to post by Peepers


Then you're in for a shock

reply to post by Zepherian


Tell me what you got, and I'll respond.

There is more to it than that.

reply to post by Peepers

Heres what I believe. Once the heart is stopped, brain functions cease even though artificial means are induced. The brain needs the body to remain cognitive in this reality operating off the 5 senses.

Flawed. If this is the case, then people with artificial hearts should be unconscious then. Here's a hint, drugs. You can switch out organic organs for mechanical organs and still have a functioning brain. Heck, in thirty years we can send nanites into the brain to map out every single neuron firing and levels of every chemical and recreate a person digitally. Still a person, just in a different form.

@prevenge:

That is really really interesting. That almost answers my previous question, if we can maintain health and proper body maintenance, then could we live indefinitely? That research there does seems to indicate the possibility of that. A lot of the information I have been looking up seems to indicate that people die from basically a buildup of toxins in the body coupled with poor maintenance which would cause the body to be unable to effectively fight against the toxic buildup as we age. That would obviously also reduce our immune system significantly making us more prone to illness related deaths as well. Very interesting research.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by sirnex]

reply to post by sirnex


I'm not aware of people functioning with artifical hearts. I know of pacemakers and transplants. These even limit the person from activities.

Has anyone heard of Karl Pribrams Holographic Brain Theory?
If not read on to link as I beleive this would expand some understanding to this
most interesting topic of the brain.

www.acsa2000.net...

reply to post by Peepers


health.howstuffworks.com...

The limitations are in the design and technology, not in the function of the brain. It is a heart, not a brain, the heart has no control over the self-awareness of a species. It only deals with the control of pumping blood throughout the circulatory system.

@Epsillion70:

It is wrong. You take a hologram and cut it into smaller and smaller pieces with each piece containing the information of the whole. Not so with the brain, you cut it and it's functions are impaired until the brain is able to rewire and adapt, if it ever does mind you. If the brain were holographic in nature then any successful cuttings shouldn't impair function. Each successful cutting should function as a whole, this simply isn't what happens. There is only one way a hologram works, not the normal way and then the brain way. The brain is a rather special organ, but my god, it isn't that special.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by sirnex]

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to

 

@Epsillion70:

It is wrong. You take a hologram and cut it into smaller and smaller pieces with each piece containing the information of the whole. Not so with the brain, you cut it and it's functions are impaired until the brain is able to rewire and adapt, if it ever does mind you. If the brain were holographic in nature then any successful cuttings shouldn't impair function. Each successful cutting should function as a whole, this simply isn't what happens. There is only one way a hologram works, not the normal way and then the brain way. The brain is a rather special organ, but my god, it isn't that special.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by sirnex]

But this is exactly what happens. See this video link to a kid with Half a Brain;

www.metacafe.com...






[edit on 14-8-2008 by Epsillion70]

reply to post by Epsillion70


Are you kidding? I'm asking in all seriousness. Did you not notice that his ability to function is impaired? He is in a wheel chair, which means that areas of the brain controlling the functions for movement are not working. They have been effectively destroyed to the point where the brain just can't repair and rewire itself to restore those functions. Again, you cut a hologram and all parts contain the whole. What you just showed goes against that notion. Try again.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Epsillion70

 

Are you kidding? I'm asking in all seriousness. Did you not notice that his ability to function is impaired? He is in a wheel chair, which means that areas of the brain controlling the functions for movement are not working. They have been effectively destroyed to the point where the brain just can't repair and rewire itself to restore those functions. Again, you cut a hologram and all parts contain the whole. What you just showed goes against that notion. Try again.

My understanding after watching this vid is this kid got His right Hemispherical brain literally blown away.
And the Kid didn't die despite the textbooks understanding that he should of died or at the very least should have been extremely and severely impaired and in a vegetative state due to loosing parts of the brain that traditionally would seem to be the parts that are needed for the proper working mechanisms for the body to function etc.
Sure the Kid didn't have it all good but hey he still had a sense of humour in his speech?(Right Brain?)