Conspiracy against God

I think that people hate god because he/she/it doesnt actully do anything to help us -- that we know of -- we arnt even sure if it exists. People need to see it to belive it. Plus the amount of times the church has lied/murdered and worse..doesnt help much...

Fox

Originally posted by Ichabod
Let's start at the bottom. It turns out our loving God did reveal himself in the personage of Jesus Christ. Did you want him to hang around for 2000 years or so in order for everyone to get a good look? Do you believe any historical record or just recent ones?

And when David koresh said he was Jesus, was that God revealing himself to us, or just a mad man making astonishing claims?

And why was it only 2000 years ago that human kind was privileged enough to bare witness to the lord in flesh?

Why not today, when it is obvious we need him most?

Next, it makes perfect sense to me that God wouldn't come down again to do a few parlor tricks for us. We still wouldn't believe. They didn't believe Jesus after a book full of impressive miracles. But I suppose you think they are all fabrications.

I note in a number of your posts a very spiteful attitude.

Is that god ? or just you??

Now the big one: he made us including our minds. You know that your mind isn't static. How about this - he gave us rational minds? You and everyone else on the planet are driven by your self-serving preferences that drive your decisions and determine your actions. Unless you're clinically insane, you make decisions to take actions that optimize your objective function of the day. Notice that your decisions can be completely different than everyone else's on the basis of your preferences but you can still be completely rational as long as you're working to optimize your personal objectives. So, it's not that "God made me this way" which is the off-key song of so many blamers in this society. We all strive day and night to improve ourselves so let's not lay down when we can't make good decisions. The fact is, people have their own preferences and they bloody well like them very much. Their decisions, while often times harmful looking to the outside world, scratch an itch others cannot fathom because we don't know what they prefer.

I don't see one bit of petulance on God's part in this. You seem to think the bible demonstrates that he is 'insulted' and 'flipping out'. If you prefer to do your own thing without regard to God while you're running around this earth as the biological microbe described by Daniem, then cheerio! But why should God give you a second look for entrance to eternal life with him? You sound like a product of the MoPO - you want in because you think it makes sense to let you, someone so fun, so charismatic, so charming in to spend eternity with God. It's so reasonable. The MoPO want you to believe it's all about you.

Frankly, you're just rejecting an O3 God's authority to run things the way he sees fit. Good luck with that approach - I don't think he's going to make more than one way to get in and it has nothing to do with anything you can accomplish.

I really did want to address some points in this post... but after consideration, found they were more emotional hysterics than valid points.

Oh well..

reply to post by undo


I fixed my post as you posted. My beef with you was your grounds for proof. I got caught up with the other posters on the "singular" "plural" issue..

My point was you have as much proof as a crazy person does that he is Thomas Jefferson incarnate. .. Why is he crazy and your not ? It is true to him . So why is that not good enough for the world?

Is there a conspiracy against Thomas Jefferson ?


[edit on 2-8-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

you are all gods, don't you see?

you are the ones that create your local universe with your thoughts...

the greatest deception on this world is that god is a bearded man somewhere far away, but in fact he/she/it is you and you are he/she/it...

that is why he/she/it will not help you from outside because you must help yourselves from inside, you must wake up and understand that you are he/she/it - god...

reply to post by d11_m_na_c05


well, for one, i don't think i'm thomas jefferson, i don't kill people (unless you count mmorpg player vs. player), and i don't recall being asked to do anything bad to anyone. in fact, just the opposite (not that i'm always kind, loving and caring, but it's expected of me to be that way).

i am not sure the rest of your question is actually fair in its current configuration.

Originally posted by Ichabod
Why is there such hatred for God in the world?

You poor, poor child.

You are confusing people's refusal to acknowledge the existence of a mythical creature with hatred. The two are mutually exclusive.

We don't hate God, you see, because God is only a figment of your imagination.

If I said, "I hate Santa Claus!", you would conclude that I hated the idea of Santa Claus, not an actual real creature named Santa Claus.

But if I insisted that there was a real Santa Claus, but he was invisible and everywhere (how else could you deliver gifts all over the world in one night!?) you'd probably say I was mentally ill or suffering from socially woven delusions.

Umm...so, sorry to break it to you, but there is no Santa Claus and there is no God. I truly can't imagine how difficult it must be to learn this, I can't. But the first step to enlightenment is waking up from childish dreams.

You poor, poor child.

erm, that's probably not going to go over well.
just for the record.

reply to post by undo


Lol its not supposed to be fair . There all loaded questions . That any answer will bring the same result . Whoever said life was supposed to be fair :p

Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
reply to post by undo

 

Lol its not supposed to be fair . There all loaded questions . That any answer will bring the same result . Whoever said life was supposed to be fair :p

okay, i'll try to dissect it and answer the question.
your post essentially says, some people are considered crazy for thinking things similar to what you think. i'd have to disagree because i at least have texts and artifacts, to back up my claims. he may be able to prove thom. jefferson existed but he'd have to prove he was a reincarnation of him or something, to prove he wasn't crazy to the average modern mind and even then it could be a problem if the interviewer didn't believe in reincarnation.

ya know?

reply to post by undo

but he'd have to prove he was a reincarnation of him or something

How would that be possible? There isn't anyone alive that was when he was . No one to pose a personal question only shared between them . There is no way to prove he isn't . What if re-incarnation makes you forget some things? You know 2nd life amnesia. There are tons of old books on re-incarnation . As many im sure as there are bibles. Why is he crazy without any doubt in peoples minds but its ok to believe in .
a shape shifting jewish zombie .... Man i just dont know anymore . How can you believe in a guy that can change shape and even deceive his own wife. come back from the dead and all . But not that a guy could possibly be Thomas Jefferson .

Or why cant society as a whole just have faith our founding father would try and come back in these harsh times to save us all?

[edit on 2-8-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
reply to post by undo

 

Thats hard to believe? But a shape shifting jewish zombie is not? Man i just dont know anymore . How can you believe in a guy that can change shape and even decieve his own wife. come back from the dead and all . But not that a guy could possibly be Thomas Jefferson .

oh i believe in shape shifters. sorry, but i have an extremely creative and imaginative brain. you think i'm nuts and need to fit in the box. i think the box is.....well to quote matrix...there is no box. yeah, it's not what you'd call every day reality (currently) and i certainly wouldn't want it to be every day reality because i was literally crazy, but i think there'll be a time in the not too distant future where we'll be seeing alot more about what is and isn't possible than we ever imagined and that box will either have to get alot bigger or go the way of the dino.

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
reply to post by undo

 

Thats hard to believe? But a shape shifting jewish zombie is not? Man i just dont know anymore . How can you believe in a guy that can change shape and even decieve his own wife. come back from the dead and all . But not that a guy could possibly be Thomas Jefferson .

oh i believe in shape shifters. sorry, but i have an extremely creative and imaginative brain. you think i'm nuts and need to fit in the box. i think the box is.....well to quote matrix...there is no box. yeah, it's not what you'd call every day reality (currently) and i certainly wouldn't want it to be every day reality because i was literally crazy, but i think there'll be a time in the not too distant future where we'll be seeing alot more about what is and isn't possible than we ever imagined and that box will either have to get alot bigger or go the way of the dino.

I know and that was my point . We all have very active imaginations. Dont let that confuse you . Just cause you believe it does not make it true as stated. If that was the case then we would have 30000000000 people running the world.
Obviously my beef is generaly with xtians . I dont even have a clue what you are . But you played the game . I respect that . But you could have just came out an said "sorry, but i have an extremely creative and imaginative brain."
In the beginning . I would have known what you meant . Not everyone is willing to admit they could be wrong . I just like to play the game

reply to post by d11_m_na_c05


addendum to your edit:
well if he claimed reincarnation, then i, for one, would have to consider his claim closer than if he didn't claim reincarnation and just simply said i'm thomas jefferson. the next question i'd have is ..."whatcha doing back here?" "are you crazy??!" (rhetorically of course). but we aren't talking about what i'd do, are we? we're talking about what you'd do, couched in your little scenarios. it's okay, you have every right to think i'm bonkers but i'd argue the case that i'm just very creative and sensitive to .....information. ever heard of remote viewers? whatcha think they're using to do that?

[edit on 2-8-2008 by undo]

reply to post by d11_m_na_c05


Since you've laid down the gauntlet to the OP, I'll have to dive in.

First, your list. You're the expert, which of these gods has the same attributes as the "I AM" God of the bible? Although I doubt any of them do, I'll accept any of them that have the same attributes which loosely are omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence. Further, I believe in the triune God - the 3 in 1. I believe God exists in that form for our own benefit on judgment day. Are any of your gods on the list O3 and triune? If not, I reject them all because an afterlife with God without those qualities is impossible. For instance, it is appointed once for man to die, and then the judgment. If you're facing the judgment, how would you feel without the benefit of the spirit of God to convict you of sin in advance so that you know you're doing wrong? And at the judgment, wouldn't the benefit of a mediator who had taken your punishment in advance give you some comfort? The fact that I only differ by one God from an atheist (which I actually thought was pretty good) is just evidence that atheists throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Second, Son of Sam was a murderer who claimed God was speaking to him. It's interesting that he now claims to be a Christian but no longer says that God speaks to him. Coincidence? I doubt it. Do you have a reference to something similar in the bible that you want to cite? You keep saying there are many of them. Where do you find an case of God telling someone to go murder somebody in the dark by shooting them in the back of the head? Maybe you're judging God on the harshness of the punishments handed out for breaking the law, for instance the stoning of the man for gathering sticks on the sabbath. Or perhaps God's command to the Israelites to take the land of Canaan and wipe out various other peoples. Is that it? If those are the examples that you cite then I'd have to tell you they were in keeping with God's nature. In the latter case, these people who were to be disenfranchised were involved in abominable behavior. There was nothing inconsistent about God's commands. Son of Sam's directives, murdering innocents sitting in cars at night in the dark, were inconsistent with God.

Finally, you keep screaming about logic but I want to tell you about rationality. It's rational under uncertainty to make selections among alternatives based on the highest expected value of an outcome. It's irrational to do otherwise. Your preferences play a big role in this as I've discussed elsewhere. Go buy yourself a book on decision theory and read it.

Since you are apparently convinced that there is no God, may I ask you if you have a moral compass? What advantage in your short life does that give you? If you have one, then why have one - aren't you just here and then gone? What do you care what kind of society you leave for your progeny or what people say about you? Just vanity?

reply to post by d11_m_na_c05


i was a dolphin in a previous incarnation
i'm old, been a christian for many years. not much
phases me anymore, 'xcept for the word "whore."
i really hate that word.

I dont know whether or not there is a God, but I sincerely hope there is. It scares the daylights out of me when I think about a world without a magnificent being watching over us, watching out for us. I have no problem with God, just with the damned questions he's left me to ask; Mainly the Whys and Hows of creation, like why he doesnt talk directly to us.
Anyways, why would you not want there to be a God, or an afterlife? Simply because you want to have a good time? You dont have to be selfish to have a good time, no offense to anyone, not saying that thats all atheists want by any means.

Anyways, I pray every night to the Lord, in hopes that one day I might meet him, or he might talk to me.

And dear goodness, there is so much debate on God, why cant we all just agree to worship in the way we wish, and leave others alone as long as we dont interfere?

Take a chill pill, love your life, and live it to the best of your ability.

The conspiracy is getting people to believe in a "being" that watches everything we do here on earth, for the history of millions of years(a couple thousand years according to the bible, the word of God. Which has been proven to be incorrect mind you), through hundreds of billions of people.

I'll throw out a few things to ponder..

Why didn't "God" talk to the people in the crusades era, who were killing and horrendously torturing others in the name of the LORD? The christian army destroyed so many books, temples, and homes of people that were not christian. Even if they believed in nothing, they were killed.

What about the people that apparently talked to "God" before christianity? Did they just talk to the wrong "God"? Didn't understand him correctly? What is it, a language barrier? Just didn't get the religion thing right apparently, as the christian army found it their duty to rid the world of these non believers.

Yet, we still have many religions. And as the world changes, religion also changes. A lot of you who follow the lord also tread in the tracks of ruthless killers, "sinners" as you call them. Yet they were the most praised in their land, they were adored, by those who were still able to give praise.

I like the peaceful ideals, caring for each other, and live and let live. Isn't that enough for "God"? Apparently not.

Really I think most of us agnostic's are just tired of being told we're going to hell for not believing in a certain "God". God is giving out ultimatums for living, when he apparently gave us free will? You can't believe in a book that contradicts itself. It's pretty apparent that it was written by a human man, not a divine being.

Take care. I hope you find a personal truth that you can believe in, as I believe we are all searching for something.

reply to post by Ichabod


Hello God, how you doin'

This is Mike from Greece

Greetings NSA, CIA, FBI and all of you there.

Let us not lose time of who loves the creator of the Universe and who doesn't For sure someone created Earth and all the Stars. Created everything that is alive on Earth and everything that keep it alive.

I will tell you a secret : Some of you guys will form the C-Span group after the end of the world. Those people where in your position before the last end of the world that happened 300 years ago. They know history and secretly monitor everything there. Other from you will go to mount Athos in Greece to worship God and help all the East to know the holy bible.

I wish you success in a simple task : to Love your neighbor as yourself and God with all your power of mind, heart and soul. And make me a favor. Log-in to World Vision.org to show that love, believe me God will bless you after the end of the world as He blessed all those you see in the C-Span screen that write books and make open discussions. Those that dont follow this and something more will simply dont remain alive after the end of the world

Peace to you people. Tomorrow i have to keep myself safe from the Aliens in 51 that like kids dont know anything yet

A conspiracy against God?
Who's God?
What God?

Why do so called christians think their God is right?

Outlaw ALL religion I say. If it wasnt for religion most of the problems of the world would not exist.

There is only ONE true god and it comes in your pay packet each week ........ Money.