Conspiracy against God

Oh there has always been a Satanically motivated conspiracy against God. Satan is the power in control of the world right now.

I am a Christian. I believe God created all things. What is he biggest insult you could give t the designer of the universe and life? That would be that there is no design or order at all- that is was just an accident. Imagine telling Van Gough his masterpiece looks like he spilled his paint. That exactly what Darwinists are doing.

It is an important issue in the fact that the people in power want to reduce you to the status of an animal so they can take away your basic human rights. Evolution is a conspiracy to do just that.

From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..

If they can take the creator out of the picture. Then you are NOT endowed with inalienable rights. You are a mere ape like Richard Dawkins says.
This is the goal of the elites who are pushing us toward a one world government.

reply to post by redled


Well, I'd have to modify your comment to put it in line with my conspiracy theory - people hate God because of what they are told is done in his name without the benefit of total awareness. The 'told' part comes from those involved with controlling public opinion. Maybe it's journalists, or preachers, or whomever has a vested (or conflict of) interest.

We also can't know what side-effects are at play in any given decision/action. We don't see the whole picture. So, if you're just going to say that people hate him because, e.g. there was an inquisition once, then I'd say that's pretty shallow. I like Elvis, but I don't blame him for his fans' behavior.

I think people hate God because his direction and authority runs counter to our own preferences and I think the masters of public opinion are very skilled at pointing that out. Preferences are the 'will' in my book. I purposely do not use the term 'free will' bandied about by so many who don't understand anything about decision making. Will is not free - you are a slave to your preferences.

I also note that nobody that I know has ever said that God forcibly changed their preferences.

So, why hate him?

reply to post by Ichabod


Off course atoms reveal themself, they are microscopic and can bee seen in labs.

And why dont you please explain to me what you mean by "does everything have to reveal itself to your massive intellect for you to be able to use it?"

I have no love or hate for god. I dont have any good reason to believe god exists, so i dont care about him.

reply to post by Daniem

Off course atoms reveal themself, they are microscopic and can bee seen in labs.

No they were discovered with hard work.

Atoms don't reveal themselves to you personally. You simply take on faith what you are taught and read in books. I doubt you designed your own electron microscope and viewed them to satisfy your suspicions about their existence. So if you want to know GOD you should put in some serious study. With eternity at stake it's worth the effort!

God is quite superior in that he has revealed himself through the holy bible. 66 books by 40 different authors who mostly didn't know each other over almost 2000 years with an amazingly unified message that accurately and precisely predicts future events - which proves its supernatural origin by transcending time. The more you learn about it the more true you find out it is. i have been at it for years and i am learning more new things today than i did at first.

Ask God to reveal himself to you with a sincere heart and then study his word. I think you will be shocked if you are able to do so in an honest fashion.

[edit on 8/1/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Bigwhammy:

Atoms don't reveal themselves to you personally. You simply take on faith what you are taught and read in books. I doubt you designed your own electron microscope and viewed them to satisfy your suspicions about their existence. So if you want to know GOD you should put in some serious study. With eternity at stake it's worth the effort!


Daniem:
You made me laugh on this one. I take on faith on many things, like i have faith that im now seeing is real computer screen, but come on.. The atoms are not something you need faith to believe in.. It is there for everyone to see, every day. So since noone has come forth and said: "WAIT, the atoms are not there!", yes.. i have faith they are realy there.

A book on science facts from 2008 vs a book on faith from 2000 years ago.. what? Dont tell ME about faith. YOU simply take on faith what you are taught and read in your book



Bigwhammy:
God is quite superior in that he has revealed himself through the holy bible. 66 books by 40 different authors who mostly didn't know each other over almost 2000 years with an amazingly unified message that accurately and precisely predicts future events - which proves its supernatural origin by transcending time. The more you learn about it the more true you find out it is. i have been at it for years and i am learning more new things today than i did at first.

Ask God to reveal himself to you with a sincere heart and then study his word. I think you will be shocked if you are able to do so in an honest fashion.

Daniem:
This is not proof of god. Maybe the people were just telepathic and could tell the future?

Will you be shocked if I tell you that god has never revealed himself to me, even though i have asked plenty a time, quite sincerely.

Can we please stay a little more civilized? Thank You.

As I like to say, everyone has a bad day. Christians and non. I will not try to prove to you that God is real, I can't make you accept that. You must accept it on your own.

Religion is one of the most controversial topics in mankind, and we will not solve it here, or now.

I just plead all the non Christians to read the bible, and look at the fables and metaphors and compare them in your own life.

There is no way you can disprove or prove God is real. You just Know.

If I didn't bring this up, I would be quoted for saying "You just Know". You know because it is an epiphany moment, a light bulb moment.

I'm interested in continuing this topic, hearing from education non-Christians.

Also on another note of God..

If mankind has been worshiping a form of God(s) since written history begun, where did the idea come from worshiping a God? From God.

If they had NEVER been introduced to a power so great, how could the possibly worship it? Any comment?

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I am a Christian. I believe God created all things. What is he biggest insult you could give t the designer of the universe and life? That would be that there is no design or order at all- that is was just an accident. Imagine telling Van Gough his masterpiece looks like he spilled his paint. That exactly what Darwinists are doing.

So God, the omnipotent creator of the entire UNIVERSE, who is perfect in all ways, throws people into hell or obliterates them from existence(depending on your belief) for not believing in him.... because he's insulted? If we're nothing, and so tiny to him like Ichabod showed in Job; why does he get so worked up? Or are we THAT powerful, that just by exerting our will, we can make the ultimate being in the universe 'flip out'?

Not to mention that he MADE us, including our minds; and he knew that some wouldn't be persuaded by a religious book that is over 2000 years old, when there are thousands of other religions and the 'true religion' has little to claim over it's rivals(other than numbers and self-fulfilling prophecies).

It just doesn't make sense that a loving God wouldn't just reveal himself to us(or perform miracles to make us believe), or give us as much time as we need to reconcile with him, when he KNOWS there are people who won't come to him in this life because of the way he made them.

This is the ultimate reason why I'm not Christian(of course there are others, such as the paradoxes of an omnipotent deity)

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Core90]

reply to post by Core90


Core90 - we are totally on the same page, my friend. Thanks for your input. Starred and befriended.

reply to post by Daniem


I was out toiling for a few hours. Sorry for leaving myself logged in and appearing to be on the scene.

To answer your question, you said that you have no use for a God that won't reveal himself to you. So, my question is straightforward. If you can't imagine something that you can't see, does that mean you won't use it? Obviously not and nobody else works that way either.

I'll put you in the same group as Alora - doesn't believe in God and therefore 'hate' has no relevance.

reply to post by Daniem


A quick word about faith. I wouldn't describe objective reality, i.e. believing that what you are sensing is indeed real, requires a leap of faith. It's simply axiomatic. If we want to admit something other than that, we can't have a conversation. Consequently, the fact that I'm typing on a computer screen and having a conversation with people is admitted as fact not faith.

What is faith? It is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For instance, I hope that all the atoms in this chair behave as described in my quantum mechanics classes and the evidence to support this hope is everything I've learned in that class. With respect to God, I hope that there is an afterlife and that God really does love us and want the best for us. I take as evidence the benevolent creation we live in and the testimonials captured in the bible by witnesses. No different than any other belief - physical evidence and testimony.

reply to post by Core90


I take it from your statements then that you would hate God as described in the bible because you think he is punitive and petty, is that about right? How did you formulate this opinion? Was it from your own reading of the bible or from other sources?

Its not a conspiracy against god but a conspiracy by god.

I am a gnostic and i urge you to read some gnostic articles
en.wikipedia.org...

here are 2 pdf files
www.xeeatwelve.com...

www.xeeatwelve.com...

jesus was against god(creator) and was the real son of god(

Originally posted by Core90

So God, the omnipotent creator of the entire UNIVERSE, who is perfect in all ways, throws people into hell or obliterates them from existence(depending on your belief) for not believing in him.... because he's insulted? ... that just by exerting our will, we can make the ultimate being in the universe 'flip out'?

Not to mention that he MADE us, including our minds;

It just doesn't make sense that a loving God wouldn't just reveal himself to us(or perform miracles to make us believe), or give us as much time as we need to reconcile with him, when he KNOWS there are people who won't come to him in this life because of the way he made them.

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Core90]

(There was so much crap in here that I had to break my own rebellion and cut 'n paste. Oh bother.)

Let's start at the bottom. It turns out our loving God did reveal himself in the personage of Jesus Christ. Did you want him to hang around for 2000 years or so in order for everyone to get a good look? Do you believe any historical record or just recent ones?

Next, it makes perfect sense to me that God wouldn't come down again to do a few parlor tricks for us. We still wouldn't believe. They didn't believe Jesus after a book full of impressive miracles. But I suppose you think they are all fabrications. Is it just that stories in the bible are all untrue or are you skeptical about all writings about past ages? How long ago does something have to have happened for you to apply this uncertainty function to the information?

Now the big one: he made us including our minds. You know that your mind isn't static. How about this - he gave us rational minds? You and everyone else on the planet are driven by your self-serving preferences that drive your decisions and determine your actions. Unless you're clinically insane, you make decisions to take actions that optimize your objective function of the day. Notice that your decisions can be completely different than everyone else's on the basis of your preferences but you can still be completely rational as long as you're working to optimize your personal objectives. So, it's not that "God made me this way" which is the off-key song of so many blamers in this society. We all strive day and night to improve ourselves so let's not lay down when we can't make good decisions. The fact is, people have their own preferences and they bloody well like them very much. Their decisions, while often times harmful looking to the outside world, scratch an itch others cannot fathom because we don't know what they prefer.

I don't see one bit of petulance on God's part in this. You seem to think the bible demonstrates that he is 'insulted' and 'flipping out'. If you prefer to do your own thing without regard to God while you're running around this earth as the biological microbe described by Daniem, then cheerio! But why should God give you a second look for entrance to eternal life with him? You sound like a product of the MoPO - you want in because you think it makes sense to let you, someone so fun, so charismatic, so charming in to spend eternity with God. It's so reasonable. The MoPO want you to believe it's all about you.

Frankly, you're just rejecting an O3 God's authority to run things the way he sees fit. Good luck with that approach - I don't think he's going to make more than one way to get in and it has nothing to do with anything you can accomplish.

reply to post by greenjuice


Look, I started this thread and you're not changing it. Start your own thread on gnosticism and see what kind of audience you get.

Somebody is trying to make us hate God. I doubt that it's God but if you have a point, then make it.

Of course Go exists. Everything, even the very fabric of this existence is far too in balance to be meerly coincidence.

I don't believe in any god, you probably don't believe in a few yourself. Religion just makes people more prone to do stupid things and it also installs some bad habits, like making you just accept things as facts without even thinking first. The world does not need religion, it would be a far better more peaceful place without it. Imagine getting someone to explain why they killed their daughter for talking to a boy if they don't have a religion to use as an excuse or a billion other idiots to back them up.

lol, this is funny thread. i dont hate god. i cant hate something that doesnt exist. however, i rly dont like ppl who believe in god. why? its simple - i dont like weak idiots who dont have balls to take responsibility for their own actions. however, god is very important to most of us, and even if it does not exist, majority needs to believe it. if that belief was gone like a smoke one day, we would experience disaster. why? well, idiots need someone/something to guide them, to tell them whats good and whats bad, what to do and what not to do... they can not decide for themselves therefore they need god. as for me - god is just a symbol of stupidity of mankind, and jesus is a lair and fraud. god stops progress and i dont f^in like it. if you think that god is cool guy (although he doesnt give a # wtf is going on in the earth as we see) think why medieval times are called dark ages? and if you want to say that stupid ppl are guilty of what happened then.. isnt it god's will? its bad ppl right? when something good happens, we thank god, when something bad happens, its bad ppl right? these does not add up ;] so either god is incompetent m^f^ker and does not give a # or he doesnt exist. and to those who think im possesed by devil or satan or call it whatever you want, i want to ask them. so now we call freedom and mind power like that?

Conspiracy?
What's wrong with you God-believers? Nobody HATES god. It's just that noone believes in him/it/whatever.
It looks like those who believe are afraid of something.. This religion thing is all about control anyway. People don't like to be controlled!

Originally posted by Ichabod
Why is there such hatred for God in the world?

I believe your initial premise is wrong. As a whole the world claims to love god as expressed by these stats from the CIA worldfactbook:

"Christians 33.32% (of which Roman Catholics 16.99%, Protestants 5.78%, Orthodox 3.53%, Anglicans 1.25%), Muslims 21.01%, Hindus 13.26%, Buddhists 5.84%, Sikhs 0.35%, Jews 0.23%, Baha'is 0.12%, other religions 11.78%, non-religious 11.77%, atheists 2.32% (2007 est.) "

Just over 14% don't believe in some sort of god or spiritual existance.

So maybe the proper question is, "How does that 14% make it seem like the world hates god?

Vas

i believe their is a inteligent design or creator of the universe, a god.

however i do not believe in religon the church or the system that comes with it. i don't need a church or a book or a vicar or a pope to tell me what is right and what is wrong, nor do i need to be 'saved'.

i don't need any of the above to love god, or believe. religon is a control system for man, the bible was written by man. neither of them were made by god. i'd rather admire the things he/it/she did make.

edit to add:

if god(the inteligent designer) created life, there is a reason he/it/she gave feelings in with the creation.

to know right from wrong. some people don't listen to their feelings but they are there to aid us IMO. something bad is often followed by guilt, something good is often followed by warmth etc etc.

[edit on 2-8-2008 by lifeform]