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Obama suggests reparations to blacks, Native Americans

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posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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This just in concerning the history of Slaves in the U.S.

We freed them as well.

Becker



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by eric52081
I don't believe in money reparations for slavery but, for the American Indians I say they deserve it. We killed most of their ancestors and stole their land. And they complain less than the African Americans. That right there really tells me something about African Americans. It says that no matter what we do they will never be happy. Besides we all ready gave the African Americans American citizenship. Many people in this world would give an arm and a leg just to get that. They could have it worse, they could be in Africa with AIDS and barley able to find water. They should thank the United States that we brought them over here. I just get tired of hearing the complaining.


Although I might disagree with you on issues concerning Obama and other things like African American reparations. I do agree with you on "Native" reparations.

I think if you toned it down with your objections to African Americans and reparations (in agreement or not) I would listen but as far as I can tell I can't believe the words you say about African Americans. I don't see it wrong with them getting reparations considering they were enslaved for decades, and then thrown into the gutter with politics (i.e. Westernized politics). I also do believe if African Americans were serious about reparations then they would first have to acknowledge the history of their own people. How many African Americans truly want to see Africa for what it is? Angelia Jolie knows more about Africans in Africa then the average African American. What about Oprah? I don't think she deserves all that money and she should be helping her own African American people with the needs they have (Martin Luther King would be ashamed to call Oprah a fellow African American).

But I would like to say not all people of African American background are into one final category. That is where I disagree with the OP because he is lumping them into one category and it is not the same for all of them, nor is it the same for all non-African Americans.

My parents went to residential school (Church run at that). Where they suffered genocide, abuse of culture (removal of it), and horrible amounts of sexual abuse. Not up until these few years did my parents break down and start to speak of their abuse. You have to remember when African Americans were allowed to vote the average Native was probably joining a world war or trying to survive on the reservation system. Did African Americans ever get put onto a reservation? Did they ever get told they can't have children because they were "Savages" I do not think one could compare the two atrocities considering one far outdoes the other.



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by Becker44
This just in concerning the history of Slaves in the U.S.

We freed them as well.

Becker


When were Native Americans freed? I have yet to hear of a president freeing them. I never saw a president other then George W. Washington declare the Native people free. Almost all U.S. presidents had something horrible to do with Native people.

I don't mean to sound harsh but I can see from both sides of the fence on this one, and I agree with Obama. He knows the people more then the average person and to get to where he is at in thinking...you'll need a big heart (and lots of intelligence).



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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The fact that an African American is in serious contention for Potus isn't enough? What about the school curiculums teaching us about slaver and the African American struggle? How about the month that is put aside in honor of African Americans? The special rights that are forced on the populous in order to give African Americans a favored nudge? The school funding groups that cater to African Americans? The mind numbing amount of resources that have gone into trying to life the African American community up?

Those are just the superficial deeds, the real important deeds happened in another time, with the revolutionary war and the imancipation proclemation.

What else do they need? For crying out loud this is disgusting! People that defend this behavior are holding us back as a nation. God ****, shut up about it. Aint no one got more rights in this country than African Americans.

What about the Asians and other immigrants, they got to make their way just like anyone else and a part of their history involves slavery in the states aswell, yet they don't want the world in a hand basket.

Not only have they gotten "words" but ceaseless deeds. The society we live in is so far removed from all that and we in this generation don't have anything to do with what a tiny percentage of Europeans brought here so long ago.



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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When the paper that we throw around has the ability to restore human dignity,I'd not be so opposed.



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by clg79
 


Clg79,

I am referring to African Slaves.

What was done to the natives and stewards of this country will never be debatable. It was a terrible injustice and a few casinos does not begin to repay the Native Americans.

I just wanted to clarify my position on that.

Thanks for asking the question.

Becker

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Becker44]



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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Blacks were taken from there country and shipped to work as slaves, their country, their homeland, their ancestral way of life was not obliterated. I do not believe in reparations to blacks, that is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. I will not be liable for something one of my ancestor may or may not have been a part of. Blacks can still go back to Africa and still relive and take part of their heritage but wait...most don't want too because what they have here is ten thousand times better. Yes its sad, no its horrible that a wonderful opportunity had to present itself thru slavery but none the less, blacks of African decent now have a wonderful chance because of a horrible crime. Now this is way I separate black and natives. I am a native American, my ancestral home is gone, my tribes fortune(coal rich land) is now at this moment being blundered by an American company and subsidized by the American government. My ancestral way of life is on the brink and most tribes have to resort to Casinos and alcohol as a way of trying to make a viable life for the tribes that did get land. Not all tribes were given land, instead the government said , "Camp out here for now" then after awhile it was taken away. If you really want to do your homework, try reading about the numerous treaties given to different tribes, start with the 5 civilized tribes whose land was bribed and bought with liquor, then after they signed a treaty they couldn't read then another act was enforced, the removal act, which forced them on the trail of tears. Not only that, many of the treaties signed by natives where never upheld by the goverment making the treaties null. That is the premise that some tribes are using to bail on the Union(which is very legal)
I am not advocating reparations for the natives, and pls don't throw our health care system up in my face, our health care system can be compared to what Canada has, you could face a 2 year wait after having cancer diagnosed. My brother has a life threatening disease which could be treated with a surgery but they wont do it until after the disease disabilities him. So pls don't say anything about the health care. I just believe that the government should go back and make sure that all treaties were legal(not signed in duress) and that they were adhered too. I Know for a fact having my great great grandfather that signed a treaty in duress. He was taken in the woods and forced to sign and after he signed he was then shot, he did not trust white men and had 3 elders in the tribe follow who then vouched for what they saw but because of the signed deed Jackson and his croonies ran my elders off their land only to set up one the largest coal mining operations in the US

[edit on 1-8-2008 by alienj]

[edit on 1-8-2008 by alienj]



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:02 PM
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By God he best not forget the women then. First deed he can do for us id make our pay equal to a man's. Second deed, make up for not allowing us to vote until 1920. I won't hold my breath.

[edit on 1-8-2008 by hotbakedtater]



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by eric52081
 


The guy said deeds!

As for your ancestors in the civil war... I don't think they were ever promised 40 acres and a mule once they were liberated from slavery only to have that taken from them and Jim Crow laws put in place for the next 100 years?


You DISGUST! me with your inability to to understand what Slavery + Jim Crow was all about.


Do people just not get this?

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Quazga]



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
By God he best not forget the women then. First deed he can do for us id make our pay equal to a man's. Second deed, make up for not allowing us to vote until 1920. I won't hold my breath.

[edit on 1-8-2008 by hotbakedtater]



I'm sorry I didn't see non-black women being bought and sold, beat till they were dead and forced to carry children to term while they worked in the hot sun of hte cotton fields.


Don't try to equate Womens sufferage with Slavery... It don't work



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by Quazga
reply to post by eric52081
 




Do people just not get this?

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Quazga]


Its you who doesn't get it. You have this vindictive attitude toward white people, because of their skin color. Their ancestor, history and involvement with slavery mean nothing to you. To you White=not right.

Like I said, you need to stop wagging your finger and took a personal inventory.



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by alienj
Blacks were taken from there country and shipped to work as slaves,


Correction.. they dind't work as slaves. They LIVED AS SLAVES. They were beat as slaves, killed as slaves, and raped like slaves.




their country, their homeland, their ancestral way of life was not obliterated.


Oh it wasn't? Why are blacks Christain today? If their slave masters wern't christains, they would never have been Christains.

When they were brought here, they lost their religion, their culture, their God. And some of us, by the way we act, we even lost our mind!




I do not believe in reparations to blacks,


Fair Enough.. Valid stance to have.




that is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. I will not be liable for something one of my ancestor may or may not have been a part of.



Well I thought the Iraq war was the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of and didn't want to be liable for something that I wanted no part of either... but well... thats what America is about buddy. Love it or leave it eh?




Blacks can still go back to Africa and still relive and take part of their heritage



Are you crazy? Do you realize how many different cultures there are in Africa? The only African Americans who have any idea where they came from (because the slave masters made sure they couldnt read or pass down culture.. thats right.. go watch roots)

As I was saying.. the only African Americans who can even GUESS where they came from are folks like Chris Tucker and Oprah who purchase very expensive DNA tests which give a PROBABILITY of where they came from.

Africa is not one homogenized ethnic culture. I can't believe you didn't realize that.




but wait...most don't want too because what they have here is ten thousand times better. Yes its sad, no its horrible that a wonderful opportunity had to present itself thru slavery



OMG.. I no you are not attempting to justify Slavery now




but none the less, blacks of African decent now have a wonderful chance because of a horrible crime.


I really can't believe it.. you are trying to justify slavery.



Now this is way I separate black and natives. I am a native American, my ancestral home is gone, my tribes fortune(coal rich land) is now at this moment being blundered by an American company and subsidized by the American government.


Did you know Native Americans also owned African Slaves?

Which tribe are you from?




My ancestral way of life is on the brink and most tribes have to resort to Casinos and alcohol as a way of trying to make a viable life for the tribes that did get land. Not all tribes were given land, instead the government said , "Camp out here for now" then after awhile it was taken away. If you really want to do your homework, try reading about the numerous treaties given to different tribes, start with the 5 civilized tribes whose land was bribed and bought with liquor, then after they signed a treaty they couldn't read then another act was enforced, the removal act, which forced them on the trail of tears. Not only that, many of the treaties signed by natives where never upheld by the goverment making the treaties null. That is the premise that some tribes are using to bail on the Union(which is very legal)
I am not advocating reparations for the natives,


They are very tough situations, both African Slavery and European invasion of North America.

Although they were both great crimes, Slavery is the most inhuman of crimes because everyone was in on it.

With the Native American issue, there were so many factions involved.

It was illegal all the way around, because the King had already ordered not to cross the applachians yet the wataugans were criminals set on predatory land taking.






and pls don't throw our health care system up in my face, our health care system can be compared to what Canada has, you could face a 2 year wait after having cancer diagnosed. My brother has a life threatening disease which could be treated with a surgery but they wont do it until after the disease disabilities him. So pls don't say anything about the health care. I just believe that the government should go back and make sure that all treaties were legal(not signed in duress) and that they were adhered too. I Know for a fact having my great great grandfather that signed a treaty in duress. He was taken in the woods and forced to sign and after he signed he was then shot, he did not trust white men and had 3 elders in the tribe follow who then vouched for what they saw but because of the signed deed Jackson and his croonies ran my elders off their land only to set up one the largest coal mining operations in the US



I agree... All treaties should be honored! The Senca tribes of New York are fighting now for their 99 year leased land to be given back to them. And they deserve it.

The 40 acres and mule should be honored as well.

Free colleges due to the fact that it was illegal for a slave to learn to read.

There are lots of things which should be done to make up for all of the evil this nation has caused in it's march toward glory.

it's one thing to cause harm and make up for it later. It's a total different thing to act like something never existed, and leave open debts for several hundered years. Only later to act like they never existed.



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by Quazga
 



the only African Americans


Out of curiosity, what do you call white people who are from Africa?



Did you know Native Americans also owned African Slaves?


As did pretty much every single culture on the planet. Especially in the Americas. So, that begs the question on why your so laser focused on "white people". ?





[edit on 1-8-2008 by Dronetek]



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by Dronetek

Originally posted by Quazga
reply to post by eric52081
 




Do people just not get this?

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Quazga]


Its you who doesn't get it. You have this vindictive attitude toward white people, because of their skin color. Their ancestor, history and involvement with slavery mean nothing to you. To you White=not right.

Like I said, you need to stop wagging your finger and took a personal inventory.


What are you talking about? I'm white. Although my great grandparents came over in 1850 and early 1900's and moved to Illinois.

I don't have a vindictive attitude toward anyone except those who seem to act like inhumanity is all well and good. I will wag my finger at inhumanity forever. I don't care what race it is.

Especially when I hear people who are completley ignorant of history speaking as if they had some sort of perspective on the matter.



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by Dronetek
reply to post by Quazga
 



the only African Americans


Out of curiosity, what do you call white people who are from Africa?



Did you know Native Americans also owned African Slaves?


As did pretty much every single culture on the planet. Especially in the Americas. So, that begs the question on why your so laser focused on "white people". ?




European African Americans.

Just because they went down and colonized Africa doesn't make them African. They are Afrikanners.

btw.. Not so sure where your evidence of me being laser focused on white people is. I'm talking about Americans because I am an American and can only speak the responibilities of my country toward a complete race of people.

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Quazga]



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by Quazga
 



What are you talking about? I'm white.


That is painfully obvious. You're one of these white guys who thinks hes better than "other racist white people". You maker yourself feel good, by accosting other whites for racism. You don't even really think about it. Racism is bad and it makes you feel good to be against it. The problem is, you're making the same mistake most racist do and generalizing like a mofo.


I don't have a vindictive attitude toward anyone except those who seem to act like inhumanity is all well and good. I will wag my finger at inhumanity forever. I don't care what race it is.


Humanity will never meet YOUR standards, because they are purposely unachievable. You cant ever feel superior if there aren't masses of unwashed for you to look down on.


Especially when I hear people who are completley ignorant of history speaking as if they had some sort of perspective on the matter.


Thats pretty much how I'm looking at you.



European African Americans.

Just because they went down and colonized Africa doesn't make them African. They are Afrikanners.


So, what time period must a human being have lived in Africa for you to consider them African American? I ask because its pretty common knowledge that humanity pretty much came from Africa.

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Dronetek]



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
But i've seen what SOME white people CAN STILL DO to black people, first hand.

I still see it quite frequently.

It exists.


Ever walked through a black neighborhood at night in these modern times as a white man? I've seen what SOME "black" people CAN STILL DO to white people, first hand. I still see it quite frequently. It exists.



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by Dronetek
 


Look, I never said anything about what whites owe black folk. I said something about what AMERICA owes the descendants of African Slaves.


Can you not tell the difference?

Are you so ignorant as to equate America paying reparations with White folk giving handouts to Black folk?


And as for all life originating in Africa.. that's not common knowledge. That is a theory which is challenged quite often. There are many theories. That one just happens to be the most accepted currently.

Most of the races are equated with geograhical areas due to gene pools which developed in all of these areas. So even if all humanity originated in Africa, that didn't seem to figure in to the equation when Europeans were only dealing with African Slaves.



And.. You should know that you are now on Ignore, because you have shown your stupidity. First you accused me of being black and hating whites. Then when I said I was white, you said "Oh thats obvious"

You are obviously not only ignorant of history but a trollish moron...

Ignore.
[edit on 1-8-2008 by Quazga]

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Quazga]



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by Quazga
Look, I never said anything about what whites owe black folk. I said something about what AMERICA owes the descendants of African Slaves.

Then please, do tell us, what would make the black man happy?
Does he want money? Does he want respect? Does he want free food and groceries for life? An endless unemployment check?

Tell us.........what reparation can we come up with that will satisfy the black man's dilemma for good? So he can never complain again......

What exactly does AMERICA owe the descendants of African Slaves.?????
Be specific.

[edit on 1-8-2008 by rocknroll]



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 06:42 PM
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I said something about what AMERICA owes the descendants of African Slaves


The debt for slavery has been more than paid off Quazga. A little thing called the American Civil War that cost over 400,000 White Americans their lives over freeing the slaves.

Our generation today doesn't owe Black decendents of the slaves anything .. that is utterly rediculous. These decendents are not their ancestors and did not have to suffer slavery. They just want to benefit financially from it.




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