Science with meaning, symbol, and beauty

Here is a great article by world reknown geneticist Guiseppe Sermonti about how atheism and the belief in a "purposeless" universe has infiltrated science and scietific interpretation and theories-
www.cts.cuni.cz...

Well said....... good thread ;o)

This reminds me of the Chinese character, "Wu Li". It has a myriad of meanings, depending upon context. It can mean 'beauty", it can mean "physics", it can mean "patterns of organic energy".

I favor the last one. Good job!

like western medicine Western science is perverted.
you are to perform your research and you will conform to their norms or your grants and other income will not be there .

Science has been perverted

I don't know what you mean by 'symbol and beauty', but science already has a purpose. Its purpose is to increase human knowledge. In order to achieve this purpose, it is necessary for scientists to seek explanations and truth in the phenomena they study rather than in some external, unrelated source such as a holy book, mystic revelation or even a philosophical argument.

The page you link to is the usual farrago of wishful thinking with a few isolated scientific factoids selectively quoted to support what the author is already determined to believe. It is a stunningly good example of what science is not.

I have only one question: what, if anything, has this subject to do with origins and creationism conspiracy? Quite clearly, it should be in this forum.

[edit on 31-7-2008 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Astyanax
I don't know what you mean by 'symbol and beauty', but science already has a purpose. Its purpose is to increase human knowledge. In order to achieve this purpose, it is necessary for scientists to seek explanations and truth in the phenomena they study rather than in some external, unrelated source such as a holy book, mystic revelation or even a philosophical argument.

The page you link to is the usual farrago of wishful thinking with a few isolated scientific factoids selectively quoted to support what the author is already determined to believe. It is a stunningly good example of what science is not.

I have only one question: what, if anything, has this subject to do with origins and creationism conspiracy? Quite clearly, it should be in this forum.

[edit on 31-7-2008 by Astyanax]

Unrelated? If there is an ORIGIN to our CREATION, it is obviously an intelligence, because nothing doesn't just become something with precise mathematical and physical dynamics if there wasn't a creative force MAKING IT so.

This is in the exact place it should be. God is not religious, my ignorant friend. Science will # you over when it's in the control of the elite, and not much has changed for thousands of years other than the illusion OF in order to fit the agenda OF...

Why is it that science fails to understand why, despite all of our "efforts" we keeping #ing the world into extinction? Could it be possibly because we see everything as just completely unrelated and based on a chance of....ZERO? Are we all essentially dead and pointless matter, you gull darn genius? If so, why don't we all #ing shoot ourselves then right in the HEAD, because there's obviously NO POINT, if we are to understand your brilliant statement here correctly?

Do you see my quabble with you?

[edit on 31-7-2008 by dunwichwitch]

reply to post by dunwichwitch

Why is it that science fails to understand why, despite all of our "efforts" we keeping #ing the world into extinction?

What makes you think there are no scientific answers to this question? Or even commonsense ones? I mean, it isn't exactly a brain-buster, is it?

Could it be possibly because we see everything as just completely unrelated and based on a chance of....ZERO?

No, it's because we're animals, and all animals behave this way.

Are we all essentially dead and pointless matter, you gull darn genius?

I don't think I qualify for the compliment, but to answer your question, we are living, not dead matter. Until we're dead, of course.

If so, why don't we all #ing shoot ourselves then right in the HEAD, because there's obviously NO POINT, if we are to understand your brilliant statement here correctly?

I really don't see what has this to do with what I wrote earlier.

Do you see my quabble with you?

No. What on earth has my post got to do with Dunbar Oglethorpe?

Originally posted by Astyanax
I have only one question: what, if anything, has this subject to do with origins and creationism conspiracy?

The article explains why the theory of evolution has become popular with scientists, because it fits with their atheistic worldview that the universe has no underlying meaning and the way it operates and the things that happen within it are random and just "the way it is".

This article however talks about issues scientists won't accept are true, that the universe and all it's laws and manifestations, have meaning and purpose. The universe works on synchronicity, everything is living and consious whether scientists can detect it or not, and there are no accidents in this universe.

Everything that happens, happens for a reason. Atheistic scientists refuse to accept this simple fact however and believe in a "puposeless" and random universe.

What makes you think there are no scientific answers to this question? Or even commonsense ones? I mean, it isn't exactly a brain-buster, is it?

I'll tell you right now there are no scientific, societal, social, or governmental solutions to the worlds problems.

There is only one solution, or "soul"-ution. The golden rule, caring about others as much as thyself. Short of that, mankind is #ed.

I don't think I qualify for the compliment, but to answer your question, we are living, not dead matter. Until we're dead, of course.

No such thing as dead matter. Everything is alive, has a soul, and has conciousness. Even rocks and minerals have souls. If you don't believe this you are sorrily mistaken.

[edit on 31-7-2008 by Hollywood11]

reply to post by Hollywood11

The article explains why the theory of evolution has become popular with scientists, because it fits with their atheistic worldview that the universe has no underlying meaning and the way it operates and the things that happen within it are random and just "the way it is".

You are telling a naughty little fib here. The article does not even mention the words 'evolve', 'evolution' or 'natural selection'. It mentions Darwin exactly once, and here is the reference:

A young anthropologist from Boston, Misia Landau, has convincingly maintained that all the theories on the descent of man (from Darwin to Leakey) were but versions of the universal hero tales in folklore and myth (as theorized by Vladimir Propp).

Absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about. And, in any case, utter tripe.

Ah, well...

Having participated in this forum for a while now, I am no longer surprised to find creationists telling untruths to support their feeble arguments. For some odd reason, though, I never cease to find it disgusting. And pathetic.

Everything that happens, happens for a reason. Atheistic scientists refuse to accept this simple fact however and believe in a "puposeless" and random universe.

Yes, let's give that battered old straw man another good going-over, shall we?

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Astyanax]

Good thread Hollywood. Unfortunately atheists have turned biology into a pseudoscience. Every branch of science except biology accepts the second law of thermodynamics. Evolutionists ignore it to have ius belioeve things self organize by randomness, ROFL.

The sad part is all the people with no background in the truth are indoctrinated into the Borg like cult of atheism. It's inevitable as God told us it would happen. Unfortunately Astyanax is an unfortunate victim of this mind control cult. Sooner or later they will replace the chip on his shoulder with one in his forehead.

First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:3-7

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Unfortunately Astyanax is an unfortunate victim of this mind control cult. Sooner or later they will replace the chip on his shoulder with one in his forehead.

One 'unfortunate' would have been sufficient; two suggest - do they not? - that the eyes are bigger than the stomach.

The use of gratuitous personal insult and character defamation is another favourite self-indulgence of Creationists, and one that equally fails to charm.

On the Creationist scoreboard so far: one patent inveracity, one fine spray of dilute venom. Of reason and cogent argument: nil.

Par for the course.

reply to post by Astyanax


Ohh your soooo sensitive. Poor thing! It wasn't an insult as much as I was making excuses for your unfortunate predicament. I know you can't help it. The devil make you do it... literally.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
Unrelated? If there is an ORIGIN to our CREATION, it is obviously an intelligence, because nothing doesn't just become something with precise mathematical and physical dynamics if there wasn't a creative force MAKING IT so.

Just because YOU feel like the universe must need and intelligent being to create it does not make it so.. and it is not an argument based on objective logic. We do not know the exact cause of the existence yet but that does not mean god/magic did it.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by riley]

We do not know the exact cause of the existence yet but that does not mean god/magic did it.

So why do you pretend it was magic then? And say magic is a "fact".



The natural selection tautology... why Darwinism is NOT science.

Darwinism is a belief in magic.

BW,

Last time I watched youtube clips posted by you I saw dead babies and decapitated heads. You were not prevented from posting these and so I will not risk be watching anymore.. that and I have no doubt it's just your usual propoganda. I also did not mention "darwinism" so the clip is not relevent and you did not counter my point. I accept the theory of evolution.. it is not based on mythology or doctrine.. it is based on knowledge and scientific evidence.

Just watched the first few secs. Liars for darwin? You continually imply that people follow him like some sort of cult leader. That is complete bs.. I accept the theory of gravity too but I have no urges to worship Galileo.

[edit on 4-8-2008 by riley]

Scientists believe in the theory of evolution because there is evidence for it. All kinds of evidence. So far, in the hundred+ years of the theory, it has yet to be disproved. Not one single argument has been successfully raised against it. The irreducible complexity argument was blown out of the water, and that was the sole "scientific" counter to the theory. If folks who think evolution is bunk could just come up with a single point that shows it's bunk, which should be so easy if what they say is true, then scientists would take note. There is no "scientist government" dictating what scientists should believe - science is a method, not an ideology. It is decidedly neutral in everything it approaches, except for one facet: objectivity. Science is objective above all else - religion is the complete opposite.

So, anti-evolutionists: put up or shut up.

I am sure that Bigwhammy has covered all the bases here in his excellent posts. However, you are stating that Science has a monopoly on the 'truth' and it does not. The hypothetico-deductive method (Popperian method) can find probabilities because Greek philosophers put paid to the possibility of the existence of Absolute Truth.

Science can theorise and deduce and point to homologies and differences between phenomena then formulate a Law that will unite the phenomena. For example the measured speed of light generally seems to be constant by measurements and it is regarded as a Physical constant but...we are assuming that a chaotic disordered Universe in its infancy then suddenly spewed out by complete accident a set of Universal Laws without which the chances of life were ZERO.

Then, we have to believe that the disordered processes on Earth led to the formation of complex molecules in DNA and RNA called nucleotides. Then these nucleotides found a theoretical way to bind together which seems to be energetically unfavourable. Then these made a template for enzymes which made proteins and through the high rate of genetic mutation made a number of proteins. Unlikely events!

Then, the proteins collected together to make proto-cells and then collected together to make tissues, organs and living organisms. Then the living organisms collected togehter in food chains and food webs to ensure the survival of species in the correct biotic and abiotic environments.

So you atheists hate to think of origins of living things by God and dismiss it as magic, yet you believe in the 'better' theory of the chance of huge accident x huge accident x huge accident x huge coincidence.....and so on... And you have the guts to call theistic belief 'magic?'

reply to post by Heronumber0


Nope. Science is the search for knowledge. Religion is the search for agreement with your views. That's it. When a scientist uses logic and reason to revolt against a standing theory, it's business as usual. When a religious person does that, it's deemed subversive. Nice.

Science doesn't have a monopoly on truth, but it is a way to get to the truth. Religion doesn't have any goals to establish truth, just to concoct a feel-good story to keep people in check. If you find truth through religion, it was a fluke.

[edit on 8/8/08 by dave420]