Could ATS do anything in support of Gary McKinnon?

reply to post by Jerome Newton


You know, all hope is not lost. You never know, perhaps Mr. McKinnon's legal representation will be able to introduce evidence which will force a review of the NASA material in such a way as to make it clear that this is more of a 'whistle-blower' case turned against the whistle-blower.

It's really hard to say. In the end, it seems a terrible waste of time and money to carry out this legal exercise, when in fact, no real damage was done other than to demonstrate that the government contractors being paid to secure their networks were doing their stereotypical half-a$$ed job, and no one was holding them accountable.

I've had a long, tiring day, so just a few brief thoughts.

1) It's great that the discussion has become increasingly constructive. We've tried to understand each other's perspectives & achieved that to a large degree, even meeting in the middle to some extent.

2) I understand ATS's blanket policy on this issue. I would've hoped for perhaps a glint of the possibility of making an exception, but maybe the opportunity already afforded by this thread and the one in 'Breaking News' will have achieved something by at least increasing awareness. So thanks to ATS for the platform. (Perhaps I ought to make it clear that I've no connection with this man other than genuine horror at the bizarre overreaction.)

3) All I'd request is that people do watch at least one of the videos. Mr. McKinnon comes across as a low-level, but resourceful, even ingenious hacker who once had an insatiable appetite to get to the bottom of some of the main areas of interest on ATS. Arguably just 'one of us', but with a bit more technical know-how & a heightened preparedness to take risks.

Whatever you think of him he's no terrorist (or spy for that matter), and shouldn't be treated like one - even if he deserves a penalty of some description. (Personally I'd say he's been through enough already, but yes, let a court decide. He's decent and straight-forward enough to have put his hands up, admitted his crimes, and expressed regret via national media on a number of occasions.)

4) Good to see the member who was so incensed he was on the brink of leaving has had a change of heart.

Hi Pauseforthought just sent this to the Home Office (Smith's and home Office email at bottom of text) wanted to send a U2U but it wouldn't let me (not enough posts), i'll let you know if they reply, or trump up charges against me. T.J. Newton.

Dear Mrs Smith, I'm sure you are a busy woman but I would appreciate an explanation regarding the case of a computer hacker Gary McKinnon, and seeming lack of Justice regarding the terrorist Abu Hamza.

I can hardly believe my ears or eyes regarding these cases. It seems to me that You and the Home Office are quite happy to extradite a British subject to the US for hacking ( basically because he was incorrectly allowed to be charged under the terror laws (proof positive that such laws are being misused) and yet a genuine terrorist Abu Hamza (and others walk free) wanted around the globe for various "actual crimes" under the terror laws aren't allowed to be extradited, for god only knows what reason.
I'd like you to explain that one to me because it looks like a miscarriage of justice in the making to me.

Clearly the embarrassment Gary McKinnnon has caused the USA and no doubt by implication the UK (I.E telling the world that the US are covering up zero point/free energy) is deemed far worse than actual terrorism.
The other obvious point that stands out a mile from this is that clearly he was telling the truth, and certainly any prosecution he faces for this is going to just spread that information further around the world and show the people of the world what their leaders are actually doing.....denying them free energy technology.....as well as a host of other things.
What do you actually think people will think around christmas time when they can't pay their fuel bills...unlikely to be able to drive their cars because they choose to spend what little money they have left on food, do you think they might be angry and annoyed to know that Free Energy is out there and being hushed up??? Do you think by any chance that you might be facing the possibility large scale civil unrest come the winter???

Hopefully Gary McKinnon will use his defence platform to make it known to the worlds media what he found and tell the masses so they can weigh it up in their minds for a nano second when they are cold and hungry.
Clearly Mr McKinnon is going to go down fighting he doesn't really have a lot to lose does he??

I want to know why Gary Mckinnon can't serve his sentence in the UK, indeed why he can't be tried in this country for his minor crime?.....If of course, that a crime has actually been committed........because he hasn't actually been tried in a court of law yet and so must be presumed innocent thus far.
Clearly he isn't going to get a fair trial and he faces a longer time in jail than for any crime I have yet seen committed in this country....clearly that isn't right....and surely that factor negates his extradition?

It's not been a great year....or so at the Home Office has it???.......do you think this is going to help your image....or has so much damage been done that you are past caring??

Hopefully you can find the time to respond.
One other thing i want you to know, in 1997 I voted Labour and I am now ashamed to say, sent money to the Labour party in the run up to that election......can't see that happening again...


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Originally posted by Maxmars
You know, all hope is not lost. You never know, perhaps Mr. McKinnon's legal representation will be able to introduce evidence which will force a review of the NASA material in such a way as to make it clear that this is more of a 'whistle-blower' case turned against the whistle-blower.

One point to mention here...

I spend a lot of time searching through NASA and Military sites looking for material to help support claims of the tech we have etc...

I work very hard to make sure that the directories are actually in the public domain (it is normally clearly stated somewhere on the page) There were times however that I was unsure so I wrote the web master on those sites to get clarification...

But here is the problem... while the secret stuff is not even on the normal internet... there are times when you follow a link you get a door you shouldn't find... usually they have a warning "no access"

But what if some careless individual leaves something 'lying around'? Considering the thousands of website run by NASA, Gov and Military... and the obvious sloppiness of administrators and users... It is very easy to stumble upon a file you shouldn't have..

I am not talking about attempted hack... just finding something someone carelessly left around...

So now you have this file on your computer... I can imagine if they ever wanted to shut down 'truth seekers' all they would have to do is 'drop a few papers'

This is a MAJOR concern of the DoD

Internet Presents Web of Security Issues
www.defenselink.mil...

Pentagon: The internet needs to be dealt with as if it were an enemy "weapons system". SOURCE

DoD Web Policies And Guidelines (for Gov Webmasters)
Department of Defense


I have a transcript and interview on with Gary here

Gary McKinnon

Here is the main point of what he saw/found

"What was the most exciting thing you saw?" I ask.

"I found a list of officers' names," he claims, "under the heading 'Non-Terrestrial Officers'."

"Non-Terrestrial Officers?" I say.

"Yeah, I looked it up," says Gary, "and it's nowhere. It doesn't mean little green men. What I think it means is not earth-based. I found a list of 'fleet-to-fleet transfers', and a list of ship names. I looked them up. They weren't US navy ships. What I saw made me believe they have some kind of spaceship, off-planet."

"The Americans have a secret spaceship?" I ask.

"That's what this trickle of evidence has led me to believe."

"Some kind of other Mir that nobody knows about?"

"I guess so," says Gary.

"What were the ship names?"

"I can't remember," says Gary. "I was smoking a lot of dope at the time. Not good for the intellect."

I subscribe to an Air Force publication High Frontier... it carried an article that I retyped a portion of...

SPACE COMMAND
General Kevin P. Chilton
Commander, Air Force Space Command

"The establishment of Space Command is a crucial milestone in
the evolution of military space operations. Space is a place--like
land, sea, and air--a theater of operations. And it was just a matter
of time until space was treated as such."
~ General James V. Hartinger, 1 September 1982

Beginning in the mid-1980s, concurrent with the development of space operations and space engineering curricula at the Naval Postgraduate School, the Navy began “coding” officers as space subspecialists. As space subspecialty codes were then assigned to particular officers’ billets on numbered Fleet staffs and at commands ashore, the service began assigning Navy members with matching codes to those positions. More recently, the Navy has begun efforts to build a cadre of “space smart” officers, enlisted personnel and civilian employees.

The Naval Space Cadre is composed of active-duty and reserve Navy and Marine Corps officers and enlisted personnel, along with Navy civilian employees from a wide range of career fields who meet mandatory education, training and experience standards established for a particular certification level. The Navy Space Cadre is a distinct body of expertise horizontally and vertically integrated within Navy and Marine Corps active duty, reserves and civilian employee communities organized to operationalize space

Initial identification of the cadre began in mid-2001 with the standup of the Naval Space Cadre Working Group and culminated in a naval message (NAVADMIN 201/03 DTG211435Z JUL 03) announcing the first 700 officer members of the cadre. These officers were identified by the subspecialty codes of 6206, Space Systems Operations, and 5500, Space Systems Engineering or by the additional qualification designator of VS1, VS2, VS3 or VS4. Identification of enlisted and civilian cadre members is more challenging, as these groups do not have specific space identifiers like the officers do.

Approximately 265 billets are currently identified as space billets. These jobs are in Navy, joint and National Security Space organizations. Space cadre members are currently assigned throughout the National Security Space arena, including the National Reconnaissance Office, National Security Space Architect, National Security Space Integration, MILSATCOM Joint Program Office, as well as in all Navy organizations that deal with space.

High Frontier
The Journal for Space and Missile Professionals
Summer 2004

The only difference I see between his info and mine is that he has the names of the officers...

And that he went about looking the wrong way.

I agree he committed a crime

I agree he should not have plead guilty

But at the same time I can see how this could set a precedence in the courts for future 'discoveries' when someone carelessly leaves a door open.

He has no defense... because he knew he was 'breaking in' That he got lucky and found doors left open is not the point, but it does show that he is not that expert of a hacker..

Hiring him as a consultant to show that people are stupid for not setting a password is silly... and it won't change human nature. I used to install security systems... you would be surprised at how many people never change the default pass code



The guys who left an unsecured computer turned on online over night deserve to share a cell with Gary... I wonder if they were ever prosecuted?


PS Anyone out there reading this that still has 1234 as an access code... I seriously recommend you change it...

Also street address, year of birth and last 4 digits of phone and Social are BAD... first things crooks try



Edit to add...

Last year John and I had a visitor from the DoD... he showed me how few of my neighbors has a password on their wireless internet...

Ever wondered why your connection is slow at times?



And if I say FOIA Cliff's banner magically appears below I wonder what other key words are being tracked?

[edit on 28-8-2008 by zorgon]