The Women's Restroom; and other feminine mysteries

A friend of mine just left her perfect husband. To my dismay. She wanted to party. He wanted to farm their land. He is a nice, kind, hard working, handsome man. She is insatiable when it comes to attention. Someday she isn't going to be so cute and fun, and then what is she going to do? She has a rep in this town and many people don't like her. She became a real estate goddess and is making more money than she ever thought or knows what to do with. She is running with the local elite now. Vineyard owners no less.
I feel sorry for her husband, he did everything right in my mind, except think he could tame her.

Originally posted by seagrass

Originally posted by Darth Logan
What's up with all the excessive amount's of make-up? Or the wonder/push up/down/sideways 24 hour comfort bra? What are women trying to hide or improve? And all the other gadgets? There is alot of false advertising going on these day's.
Im a fan of the El Natural Look, well natural beauty is what im going to wake up to every morning so that's why I ask.
I know you will disagree with the last sentence but im refering to the lack of make-up in the morning.

Lol, miracle bra, water bra, 24 hour comfort by playtex. Tell me about it. They keep my size in the freak vault in the back. I am not busty. I am athletic looking (she says with pride) But you do look better in clothes with something there. I hate bras.
Make-up is used to enhance or to hide. We want to look like the women you lust after in the mags. Or the women who say that is what is pretty. It's a stupid game.
Gadgets may help us get there. We think.
If we know you love us, we will stop wearing it so much. But you may wish we would put it back on. We don't know what you want unless you tell us. So we try for the average. Or we give up and don't try.
Hopefully someone who remembers will answer.... I go pretty natural now, but I used to cake it on, and I was pretty good looking when I was younger.

Seagrass as well as some other posters know how close to my heart this question is as I just recently made a thread about it. I couldn't have answered any better. I just want to quote this again for emphasis:

Make-up is used to enhance or to hide. We want to look like the women you lust after in the mags. Or the women who say that is what is pretty. It's a stupid game.

That covers it exactly right there. I and others like me feel compelled to look like the women in magazines who men are attracted to, so we buy and apply whatever we can to help us get there - emphasizing this and hiding that. Maybe if we knew without a doubt that the one who loves us wouldn't trade us in for a younger model if we stopped looking like that then we would stop feeling like we have to.

Originally posted by Chelseh
reply to post by Darth Logan

 

You have no idea of how much image pressure we have. My school is a jungle of ridicule and it really gets to me. I must say, I am ashamed of who is behind the mask. I don't see it as "false advertising" I'm 15 years old and not interested in having a boyfriend anyway. It's protection from criticism.

I feel for you so much. I know exactly how you feel. It is protection from criticism for women of all ages. Some women feel that every day is a jungle of ridicule, competitors picking apart their every flaw and potential mates sizing them up in a glance. So we can either buy the products and still never feel good enough, or we can say no and rise above it. Easier said than done, I know. I still struggle with it.

Originally posted by LateApexer313
I'm a woman, and I don't understand women either. So men I truly feel for you!!! If I were gay, which, thank gawd I am not or I'd go strait, because I couldn't take it and I don't know how a lot of you men do

Sorry girls, but, the shopping, the excessive buying, the need for constant ornamentation, constant approval, the hours upon hours spending laboring over make-up and hair, the rehashing of "He said this, but do you think he MEANS this?" Ad nauseum, I can't take it.

I am not a good one to discuss guy things such as boyfriends etc with my few women friends. Because 1) After 10 minutes, I'm tuning you out anyway...2) None of you take any advice on boyfriends and husbands, no heeding anything near to common sense help or constructive criticism...

Most of my friends are guys. They say what they mean, they aren't "thinking" a darn thing other then if they are hungry or that shirt looks nice on you, if you get my drift!!

I am going to have to stick up for men in this thread, I have encountered way more off-balance raving pyscho women then men lol...I have heard so many HIDEOUS stories from my guy buddies about women...yikes!

I'm getting a total kick out of this thread it's awesome to see the 2 viewpoints displayed so honestly here, good job all

And where do you hang out?

I'm sorry, but for me it's quite the other way around. As most sensible women with not a lot of extra moolah will really be like that. Well, of course that's how they're raised.... personally it makes me , but there are more sane women then idol wannabes.

reply to post by seagrass


That's a shame about that gal's husband. He sounds like such a nice guy. But I think this is a typical example of what happens when a woman wants excitement. You're right, nothing will tame that desire. Trying to tame it only makes it worse. Do you know what vineyard, btw?

I completely agree with your point about shoes, and I actually had the same conversation with my (male) roommate a month or so ago. Shoes always fit you, even if you gain 10lbs, even if you're feeling bloated or whatever, so shoes are always a happy-thing, and can fit into pretty much any budget. Other clothes, and shopping for them, can be fraught with difficulties like changing room mirrors, bad hair days, "omg, do I really look that old under fluorescent lights", etc.

As far as the nice guy thing. A lot of guys that aren't all that confident think they're a nice guy, especially if they don't date much, but in reality, they're more of a doormat than a nice guy. I've dated guys who I'm sure would think they're "nice guys", but who were hell to date, because they were very passive aggressive, never actually saying what they wanted, always wanting me to be the one deciding things like where we're going, what we're watching, what we're eating, etc etc. It gets really tiresome having to run someone else's life for them, always having to be the entertaining one. Everybody has wants and needs and things that bother them, and it's different for all of us, but in a successful relationship, if you can't articulate those needs like an adult, you're going to make your partner miserable. I personally would love a guy that's a "nice guy" but who also knows what he wants, and has some kind of personality that's not the nice guy void. I want someone that will argue with me when I'm wrong, (it's rare, but it happens ) and not just say "Yes dear, whatever you say dear".. After all, who wants a life without passion in it?

As far as shopping and diamonds go, I'm really not the average girl, I'd rather have books, or geek things like computers than I would diamonds.. yeah, they're pretty, but such a waste of money. I really don't want to walk around wearing something that cost more than my car, and looks as generic as something every other girl wears. I also don't really do the shopping thing, unless I really actually need new clothes or something. I can be persuaded to enjoy it once I'm out doing it, but again, the only kind of stores I really enjoy are places like fry's, or bookstores.

Women's rest rooms.. I have seen a few fancy ones with couches and stuff in them, but the only time I've ever seen someone sitting on them would be if it's in a club. (Usually because they want to talk and it's too loud outside in the club to do so comfortably)

Just for reference purposes, I'm 30.

A ex girlfriend of mine used to ask me "How do you feel?"

How do I feel about WHAT? Baseball? Ron Paul? My cat?

Used to drive me bonkers. She almost never got to the real point without me having to drag it out of her. She would get on me about something but it really was about something else.

Now, I wasn't exactly the model boyfriend to her either because I was a total drunkard at the time. I did have my problems at the time but that question probably made me want to drink more.

Also, why, if we say to a girl that she is pretty do we have to keep saying it? What, I lied the first time?

I do agree that society has a lot to do with it. There are no ugly women on tv, in the magazines etc. If that keeps getting pounded into their brains that they are not pretty because they don't look like so and so then things like bulimia, anorexia and such occur. The pressure put on women by the establishment, I think, erodes many womens self-confidence.

Truthfully, though, I'm probably not one to be talking about any of this. I haven't been with a woman in two and a half years and am pretty much invisible for some reason here in the big city. I had two girlfriends at different times when I live in the nutty town of Sedona - whose population is somewhere around ten thousand or so. Yet here in Phoenix, supposedly the fifth largest city in the U.S. I can't even get a date. I tried dating sites, Craigslist, I even tried the sex sites a while back just trying to get a date. Nada, zip, zero, zilch. Just a few games and then, nothing. I realize I'm a bit hard to deal with - I am quite outspoken about my beliefs and people, not just women, don't really want to hear it. But hell, I am oftentimes right. Not my fault that people don't want to talk about serious topics and that's all I really can talk about anymore. I'm too aware of what is going on to just let it go. Makes it difficult to meet women when I won't talk in public most times and if I do I just come off as a Loonatic to most people. Then, when I start to talk music, one of my passions, I really come off as more than strange. I can't help it that I think such bands as the Stones, Dead Zeppelin, Bruce Springsteen and the Grateful Dead are boring, sloppy, overplayed and overrated. I hate them and will tell anyone within earshot how much I hate them.That surely doesn't go over well when most of the people I know are musicians. I guess I'm a bit of a a**h*** that way.

I say what I think. Unlike most people IMO. For some reason it doesn't work.

I never played the "game" very well. Someone said to me in one of my whining sessions that I don't have game. Why should it be a game?

Sorry, I rambled a bit off topic there but just being me makes it difficult to get together with women. I think I'm destined to be a bachelor and I've made my peace with it.

Would be nice to get laid once in a while, though, but I don't believe in God and therefore don't believe in miracles. If it ain't a gonna happen, it just ain't Oh well.

I also do wonder about my looks. I'm not good looking nor ugly. Right smack dab in the middle. Short, too. I think I'm not ugly or good looking enough to be remembered. Just my opinion because after almost forty years I sure don't know what women want.

Again, oh well. I am who I am.

Just from your statements alone, I would gauge that your opinions are important to you. But you may not get that respect from a woman if you aren't interested in her opinions as well. Try honing your listening skills, and ask about what they think. Conversation is two way device. If you aren't interested in what a woman thinks she probably will not continue to talk to you and you will never hear what it is she wants.

I agree there shouldn't have to be a game. I don't know the answer to that. If I did I would be a millionaire. I hope we figure it out someday.

Originally posted by intrepid
What's the deal with the shopping thing? My wife CAN'T go into a store and buy ONE ITEM. I even made a bet with her once when she said that she was going into the store for......... I don't remember but it was one thing. She lost. Came out with 2 handsfull of bags. Men don't shop, we purchase.

Very true, except I don't like walmart!


About the diamonds, I don't care about them, but I know some girls won't accept lesser.

It's hard to say what women want, each has their own taste. I can only say what's a turn off: Jealousy, arrogance, self-centered, lying, disrespectfulness, inconsiderate, insensitive and unhygenic. I'm sure this is the same for men also.

A guy who tries too hard to 'get' a women can scare us off. He comes across as desperate, needy and bordering on psycho. Or a guy who asks you out repeatedly, they get all mad when you say no and demand to know why and why they can't be given a chance. If they'd just be themselves and let nature take it's course, not be so pushy, they couild be more attractive. We might like the chase to some extent, but don't want a stalker.

Some woman do like big muscles, it's not my personal taste.

[edit on 30-7-2008 by violet]

reply to post by seagrass


Actually, I'm not a bad listener, really. I just don't talk much in public anymore, when I make it out of the apartment.

It just seems to me, at least the women I meet, they drink, and drink too much. That kind of goes for everyone I meet. I've been trying to not be so judgmental about it but it's hard. People become idiots much of the time when they drink and that's hard for me to deal with. Not that I'm any better, I'm still stupid after three years of sobriety.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, I'll try and remember that if I ever go out again.

Good thread seagrass. This should be a monster when all is said and done.

I think that women are amazing. Very complicated beings. Of course they cover the full spectrum, just as men do. From utterly shallow to brilliant.

My whole life, I have been able to bond with women easily. Maybe it was because I had a good relationship with my mother? I like the compassion and empathy that women are able to show. I think men have the same capacity, but due to social norms they almost always refrain from doing so.

I do not like the catty-ness of women though. The competition they seem to be forced to have with each other is just too much to handle.

I also do not like the pressure that young women seem to have to be stupid. I have noticed that many do this just to be accepted. Jessica Simpson is that type of woman. No way is she as stupid as she pretends to be. Terrible role model.

Anyways, good thread

Also, I think that guys could do themselves a favor and read Men ar from Mars and Women are from Venus. Obviously, not gospil but it does contain a lot of truth about differences between the sexes and how they think.

reply to post by seagrass

you may not get that respect from a woman if you aren't interested in her opinions as well.

I think there is a very large population of women that really don't care what your opinion is. They only want you to pay attention to them and make them happy.
Those are the shallow ones that I am talking about. Personally, regardless of beauty... I would stay far far away.

Originally posted by theendisnear69
I would like to know why women always pass up the good guy and go after the a$$hole?

Seriously why do they do it? Maybe they have some fantasy about bad guys that turns them on.

Women always say O I can't find a nice guy. And those of us who are nice are standing right in front of them

You may find an answer to this oft-asked question here.

Incidentally, Ian Fleming, the inventor of James Bond, was a man very much of this type - even more so, perhaps, than his celebrated fictional creation.

[edit on 30-7-2008 by Astyanax]

There are just as many men that don't care what you have to say and only care what cup size you are.. I work in a job where I meet a lot of people, and honestly, I've been asked out in pretty much every way you can think of.. The vast majority of the time, those people don't even have a clue who I am, or what kind of person I am whatsoever, since my interaction with them is simply service related... and when I ask what it is they see in me? Physical stuff.

It's really frustrating when you have spent your whole life as an intelligent and thoughtful human being, only to realize the only thing guys see in you is your T&A, and all they want from you is to get laid..

Originally posted by seagrass


They describe us as materialistic, insatiable, inevitable cheaters, and this is just here on ATS.
Why do we have such a bad reputation amongst men? (Never mind the other side of this coin please. Women feel the same about men I am sure.)

Seagrass I have often thought of myself as a hopeless romantic. It's becoming harder and harder in this day and age to really find true love. Sometimes all I want in my life is someone to love and love me in return. But the odds are against me. I am 32 years old and and have spent the majority of those years single and unattached for the following reason. Of all the women I have dated over the years I have yet to find one that understands the concept of honesty and integrity. Thats not to say that honest women don't exist but from my experience they are far and few between. I have found women to be lier's, cheaters, and materialistic. Thats a recipe that seems to fit the bill every time. From my experience I have come to the following conclusion:

Men approach a relationship with a woman thinking "what do I have to offer her?"

Women approach a relationship with a man thinking "what does he have to offer me?"

Now of course, not everyone fits the above description because in every analysis there are statistical outliers. But for the most part, the above axiom is true!


BTW: If there are any single ladies out there looking to meet and decent honest guy please, by all means, hit me up

[edit on 30-7-2008 by LiquidMirage]

Fun Thread, Seasgrass. Lots of chuckles.

In the end, both men and women must know what it is that they want, be willing to express it, be willing to wait for a response, and remember the expressed wants and responsa of others.

No one is a mind reader, and everyone is insecure. So, pay attention!

reply to post by Inannamute


Well, like it or not... we are sexual beings. Ulitmately, most men are looking for a "mate". If they don't find you sexually attractive, then you would most likely only ever be a friend. You need to be sexually attracted to your mate or your relationship won't last at least not in a healthy manner.

So, it makes sense to me that the first impression in a guys mind is, would I want to sleep with her? If yes, then let's see what else she has to offer. Friends are easier to come by than mates.

For example... I was on a blind date once with a beautiful girl. I thought, wow... she is very attractive... good for me The date was your standard dinner and a movie. I was ready to go home after dinner. She was dumb as a post. I think the last straw was when she told me that she thought she was racist. I said really? She said "yes, I really hate slow drivers." I didn't know what to say.

So, first impression was she was attractive to me, but she was so stupid that I really didn't want to see her again. It isn't all about T&A, but it is certainly a part of it. Without being around someone for any decent period of time, of course your first impression is going to be purely physical attraction. How could it be anything else?

I value personality over looks, but I can't have one without the other. Looks you can judge in an instant, personality takes time.

And remember BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER. Everyone is attractive to someone. You just have to find the right person.

reply to post by Karlhungis


...Wow. If she thinks that is racist I can't even imagine how she managed to get dressed and get out the door for a blind date. :|

reply to post by seagrass

You guys have it easy there. How many types of clothes do you have? pretty much everything goes with everything. Dress it a little up or down.

Yes, I suppose there are some men like this. the rest know better.

Just like women, men have different kinds of shoes to go with different kinds of clothes. We don't wear brogues or formal leather shoes with combat pants, or flip-flops with anything but shorts or a sarong. Nothing but leather shoes can be worn with a suit under any circumstances - unless you happen to be a Texas oilman, in which case you may wear cowboy boots under your trouser bottoms in the company of your peers but must expect to be laughed at if you do it anywhere else in the world. More critically, the type of shoe worn must reflect and complement the degree of formality of the suit. You won't wear loafers with black tie. No self-respecting man wears trainers with trousers than carry a crease, not even if they're khaki.

I could go on and on. And colours and patterns matter, too...

Men have dress conventions just as women do. Some of them, especially the ones having to do with traditional Western male attire, are very strict indeed. The only item of male clothing which 'goes with anything' is a pair of blue jeans - but the same may be said, to an extent, about women.

Just for everyones record , womens 'restroom' noises as the same as us blokes, I was having an, shall we say illicit, meeting with a 'girlfriend're married woman in a womens restroom and they are just as bad as us blokes, Telling dirty jokes, crude comments about guys and all bodily noises (inc grunting)