--- Calling all Christians ---

Someone tell me how they KNOW God exists and guess what? No one will be able too, because no one KNOW'S he exists, they just think he does.
And just because you think something is real doesnt nescessarily make it so.

Why I believe in God exists?

I am a scientific person and everything should be explained by facts and evidences.

The verse that peaked my interest is this one:

Peter 3:8 NIV

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

....

One might ask, how can a day be a thousand years and a thousand years be a day? This sound rather absurd. But, using scientific knowledge, this becomes possible.

Its called relativity.

Here is a mathematical explanation:

Say, if a spaceship traveling at 80% the speed of light for 1 hour, how much time has passed by relative to Earth?

t1=Gamma x t2

where gamma is

1/√ [1- (v/c)² ]

and the t1 and t2 are the times to each observer.

So, say that we're at v=0.8c

Gamma is going to be

1/√[1-.64] or 1/√[.36] which works out to

Gamma=5/3

If the spaceship sees one hour,

t earth=(5/3) x (1 hour)

The earth experiences 5/3 hours or 1.667 hours.

Simplifying everything, we have:

Δt' = γ Δt
. . = Δt / √( 1 - v² / c² )
. . = ( 1 hr ) / √( 1 - ( 0.8c )² / c² )
. . = 1 hr / √( 1 - 0.64 )
. . = 1 hr / 0.6
. . = 1.667 hr


Therefore, the spaceship is effectively traveling to the future as 1 hour on the spaceship traveling at 80% the speed of light equals 1.667 hours on Earth.

Adding the scriptures here, to the Lord 1.667 hour is like an hour (…a thousand years are like a day). Science has explained that time dilation is possible according to Einstein’s Relativity.

Reading the verse again (Peter 3:8), how fast is the Lord traveling so that a thousand years on Earth is like a day with Him?

Solution:

Δt = t_0 / √(1 - v² / c² )
1000 years = 1 day / √(1 - v² / 299,792,458² )
365250 days x √(1 - v² / 299,792,458² ) = 1 day
133407562500 x (1- v² / 89875517873681764) = 1
133407562500 - 133407562500v² / 89875517873681764 = 1
- 133407562500v² / 89875517873681764 = -133407562499
- 133407562500v² = -11990073767863191518066568236
v² = 89875517873008072.672541095531972
v = 299792457.99887640380956453724992

The answer is 299,792,457.99887640380956453724992 m/s. The speed of light is exactly 299,792,458 m/s. It strangely gives a result of near the speed of light at 99.999999999625% of unbelievable accuracy.

In order for time to move, the Lord should be traveling less than the speed of light because at exactly at the speed of light, time will be zero at infinity, at eternity. The verse strangely registers just a tiny hair away from the speed of light to enable for time to move, otherwise, it will stand still at the speed of light and there will be no time to measure in this case. The strange accuracy of the verse should be well noted. It could compute for any random number resulting less than the speed of light, like say, 129,324,987 m/s, but, strangely it chooses a resulting answer digit for digit accuracy of the speed of light except for the last digit in order to make a point. It is as if it is trying to get our attention of the accuracy of the Bible. The first quantitative estimate of the speed of light was only made in 1676 by Ole Christensen Rømer.

....

There! This is not the only fact I have discovered in the Bible, there are even more! How can an ancient Bible knows about time dilation and the speed of light even before Einsteins theory of Relativity??? Very strange. One leads to conclude that Einstein copied his ideas from the Bible. Did Einstein plagiarise?

The Bible contains both, faith and fact. In faith, so that you believe without evidence, in fact, so that you believe.

reply to post by amitheone


Interesting that you should use a spaceship in your proof. I could also infer that this means that "God" is an alien capable of traveling at very close to the speed of light...

In fact, if one reads The Terra Papers, this is quite likely. But you make your own call.

(Terra Papers linked in my sig.)

Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by amitheone

 

Interesting that you should use a spaceship in your proof. I could also infer that this means that "God" is an alien capable of traveling at very close to the speed of light...

In fact, if one reads The Terra Papers, this is quite likely. But you make your own call.

(Terra Papers linked in my sig.)

I seem to remember that this thread is about people who believe in God.
Not people who believe in the Terra Papers.
Sorry to call you on this. But it seems you are not here to discuss your belief in God as per the OP questions.

I will concede though, that the terra papers and people who claim to have been visited by space beings have many similarities to multitude of visitations and contact witnesses from the Saints, Mary, Jesus and Angels. The Old testament is Full of these. And, Is not the New Testament Jesus' Terra papers, but told by multiple witnesses. While we are speaking of visitations, I remember a story about three children in a place called Fatima, just to name one.
Now, on topic. When the OP asks why do people believe, i think he would like to easily dismiss it as some pathetic attempt at control, or people simply afraid of death. but simply believing does not mean you go to Heaven, you have to Walk it. not just talk it.
take this into account, too, There are nearly 300 saints whose names are associated with diseases or the cure of the sick and this relationship has come about either by some miracle attributed to them or by some aspect of their martyrdom. Some diseases have a number of saints as patrons and some saints have many different patronages.

So, there is just a small slice of why people believe, The Bible, Witnesses sharing their encounters with the devine. Medical miracles attributed to devotely religious historical saints and martyres. Couple this with a personal belief supported by its influence and impact that is evident on a daily basis and your proposition that it is inspired by fears of death or as a device for mass control almost seem laughable. In fact i did laugh when i read that in the OP. Thanks all the same though.
For me personally, my faith is about how i live, not what happens when i die. And most of those that i know who share my faith, also share my views.

Originally posted by atlasastro
Now, on topic. When the OP asks why do people believe, i think he would like to easily dismiss it as some pathetic attempt at control, or people simply afraid of death. but simply believing does not mean you go to Heaven, you have to Walk it. not just talk it.

Depends on who you ask whether belief is enough... The Protestant movement was begun on the premise that Jesus died for "our sins," and that things like Confession weren't necessary as long as you "accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior..." Many sects of that movement believe that all is forgiven, no matter how heinously one behaves, as long as Jesus is accepted as L&S.

Others don't see it that way. Others believe you have to be proactive in your behavior, as well as having a belief in Jesus as L&S.

[shrug]

So, there is just a small slice of why people believe, The Bible, Witnesses sharing their encounters with the devine.

Or presumed divine...

Medical miracles attributed to devotely religious historical saints and martyres. Couple this with a personal belief supported by its influence and impact that is evident on a daily basis and your proposition that it is inspired by fears of death or as a device for mass control almost seem laughable.

Not so laughable. If one presumes the power of the mind is infinite, one needs no god to be the source of the miracles of healing. You call me on my mention of The Terra Papers, but understand that I bring them up for a reason. They illustrate the power religion gives that some - usually a priesthood - use to manipulate and enslave others, and how and why the Abrahamic religions came about.

Believing in Spirit is different that believing there is some greater force "out there." It implies that the force flows the other way - not from outside to in, but from inside to out.

And believe me, religion has been used as a rich source of control and manipulation throughout history. The war-suppliers have promoted and prompted war through setting one "True!" religion against another "True!" religion, to their vast profit.

For me personally, my faith is about how i live, not what happens when i die. And most of those that i know who share my faith, also share my views.

More power to you. I still contend that having faith in an "out there" god is moot at best, and opens many to being manipulated and enslaved.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by amitheone

 

Interesting that you should use a spaceship in your proof. I could also infer that this means that "God" is an alien capable of traveling at very close to the speed of light...

In fact, if one reads The Terra Papers, this is quite likely. But you make your own call.

(Terra Papers linked in my sig.)

if its so obvious that life was helped so as to thoerize that aliens are involved, who helped the development of the alien?

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by amitheone

 

Interesting that you should use a spaceship in your proof. I could also infer that this means that "God" is an alien capable of traveling at very close to the speed of light...

In fact, if one reads The Terra Papers, this is quite likely. But you make your own call.

(Terra Papers linked in my sig.)

if its so obvious that life was helped so as to thoerize that aliens are involved, who helped the development of the alien?

As The Terra Papers suggest... The Universe in happenstance created the first life. It just wasn't here on Earth.

In a Universe where the building blocks of life have been shown to be widely prevalent, why is this a difficult concept to believe?

Originally posted by Amaterasu
In a Universe where the building blocks of life have been shown to be widely prevalent, why is this a difficult concept to believe?

just because you have a forest as far as the eye can see doesnt mean that its likely a log cabin will appear out of nowhere

Why do I believe cause its true. God and Christ are out there and you wont chance the truth. Nor can anyone change the truth. You just have to follow by faith alone. God and Christ are out there. Life after death is a big gamable and how yo spend it even a bigger gamable. Me I rather live in peace than tortor.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Depends on who you ask whether belief is enough... The Protestant movement was begun on the premise that Jesus died for "our sins,"

It does depend on who you ask, in this case its an interpretation of the significance of Jesus. One could have a similar alternative interpretation of the terra papers that would deviate from the significance you attribute to them, namely that Star Elder is the L&S

" Many sects of that movement believe that all is forgiven, no matter how heinously one behaves, as long as Jesus is accepted as L&S.

Your seem to be stretching it here, and i believe you are trying to infere that any person who accepts jesus as L&S can go about behaving in a heinious fashion. Kind of oxymoronic.
I believe though, that if one did behave in a manner that society or I, would deem heinous, most churches or religious groups, and even individuals who believe in Jesus would still hope that the person who behaved in that manner could still find redemption. Spiritual redemption. Not legal or criminal redemption. That is why the courts and the law are two seperate things these days.

So, there is just a small slice of why people believe, The Bible, Witnesses sharing their encounters with the devine.

Or presumed divine...

Or say you presume someone claiiming their grandfather was visited by aliens is telling the absolute truth. BTW, i think you should look into how saints actually become saints. What i found interesting when looking at the saints, and what christians claim as divine intervention, is the process by which these devoutly religious individuals become saints. A miracle has to be attributed to these saints, when the claim of a medical miracle is put forward, say a person who is suddenly cured of terminal cancer who has been making devotions to a saint in relation to this terminal illness, the roman catholic church will often disregard amazing recoverys if medicial intervention can be attributed as a possible cause of these amazing recoveries, even if that medical intervention is of little consequence when taken into the context of a terminal prognosis, the recovery is not regarded as being a result of devine intervention. So you can imagine how many cases or claims are ignored given the logical use of medicine in todays age. People don't presume it was a miracle, every thing has to be ruled out, and then, as christians, who believe in god, we can then attribute this belief as something divine occurring.

Not so laughable. If one presumes the power of the mind is infinite, one needs no god to be the source of the miracles of healing.

You can make all the points you want based on presumptions. How can the mind hold infinite power, when given the natural mortality of its organic matter, it is finite. How can something that is finite, possess the infinite. Those who attribute miracles to God etc, do so as it is natural and logical to accept the limits of human existence, these limits are evidential in every day life.

You call me on my mention of The Terra Papers, but understand that I bring them up for a reason. They illustrate the power religion gives that some - usually a priesthood - use to manipulate and enslave others, and how and why the Abrahamic religions came about.

Please, this is a boring arguement. Religion does not give people power. People give other people power. Other people then abuse that. These are vices of Humans. People in any position of authority in any ralm of influence or significance can and do abuse that authority. Politicians, teachers, soildiers, police, doctors, lawyers, fathers, mothers. To say it is usual of priesthood is biased at best, and ignorant at the worst. Please, cheaps shots at organisations are only marginally supportive of you, if you want to look at institutionalised corruption within a specific system, in this case the system would be organised religion.

Believing in Spirit is different that believing there is some greater force "out there." It implies that the force flows the other way - not from outside to in, but from inside to out.

true, you could run this senario in any number of variations. Ultimately it comes down to what you believe.

And believe me, religion has been used as a rich source of control and manipulation throughout history.

So has fear, so has greed, so has patriotism. Why are you here, just to smear religion. This is old, and quite frankly, its been done to death, in this instance, poorly.
Ok. Man is imperfect. We have used religion imperfectly. Like we have with science, and politics, and the law. Does that make them bad?

The war-suppliers have promoted and prompted war through setting one "True!" religion against another "True!" religion, to their vast profit.

This is were the generalised conspiracy of religion gets inflated so as to consume everyone. First you need Religion as the control tool, then you need war, and then the "war-suppliers". So now we have three elements. So its not just religion. Lets test your theory over the last 100 years. WWI fought over religion?. NO. What about WWII?. Um, no. Gulf War? Nope. Iraq war? umm maybe close....oops, no...terrorism and WMD are not religious movements. Hang on, maybe its a control thing. Vietnam? No. North Korea? No. Geez. Hang on, I know. Isreal and palestine?Um....no. Thats over occupied territory of significant lands that also have religious importance to both the former inhabitants and those that have settled there.
War is prevelant throughout the entire history of mankind. So too is Religion. It is only logical to concluded, that given the often violent war like nature of humans coupled with a curiosity in the soul and spirituality(and thus the belief in god), that we would expect to see these two characteristcs influence each other.

More power to you.

Cheers.

I still contend that having faith in an "out there" god is moot at best, and opens many to being manipulated and enslaved.

Contend away. Please point out how people are manipulated and enslaved by faith in an "out there god". I mean if it is moot, how could it also imply predisposition to enslavement and manipulation. Having faith in an Out there alien who spoke to someones grandad, who then passes on the tale after being inspired by a convicted criminal, lets start talking about faith in moot points.



[edit on 1-8-2008 by atlasastro]

Originally posted by Amaterasu

As The Terra Papers suggest... The Universe in happenstance created the first life. It just wasn't here on Earth.

Well i raise your Terra Papers suggesting that and throw in Science supporting creationist theory via the observable expanding universe, big bang theory supported by cosmic backgound microwaves, oh and the bible saying God did it.
What i find funny about the terra papers is that it talks about highly evolved space races who dabble in intergalactic warfare and DNA hybrid experiments who write of the creation of life in the universe as "happenstance". Um. OK.

In a Universe where the building blocks of life have been shown to be widely prevalent, why is this a difficult concept to believe?

The vast majority of the universe is empty space, dark energy and dark matter, about 4% of it is the matter which we are made of. So it is hardly prevelant. I think you need to brush up on what we know about the building blocks of life. What you are refering to is the standard model. This is what makes up matter. Matter that makes up life. Currently scientists do not know what causes energy to become matter. The theory is that there a field called the Higgs field and in that there is the higgs boson that performs this function. CERN will be trying to discover the Higgs Boson(also called the God Particle) with the LHC. I suggest you start looking at more Science Papers, instead of Terra ones.
You are really struggling now.

Deleted




[edit on 1-8-2008 by HIFIGUY]

There are 100s of fulfilled prophecies that prove the author of the Bible is transcendent over the dimension of time. Here is one the most amazing.

The 70 weeks of Daniel




I made this a few weeks ago for my YouTube channel.

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Amaterasu
In a Universe where the building blocks of life have been shown to be widely prevalent, why is this a difficult concept to believe?

just because you have a forest as far as the eye can see doesnt mean that its likely a log cabin will appear out of nowhere

LOL! Now there's an analogy!

I am sure that if conditions were just right (which in any forest *I* know of, could never happen - but then I'm limited to a single planet in an infinite Universe), somehow a cabin could happenstancedly be erected. Given infinite time with infinite forests of infinite variety...

But we're not talking about cabins. We're talking about a single viable basic life form. And I have heard that viable viruses have been created by humans, though I cannot state that I know for sure that that has been done.

Once you have life, it tried to live. And it will find ways of doing that, generation to generation. And yes, I do believe in some form of evolution, natural selection, and freak developments along the way...given an infinite Universe, with infinite planets and infinite time.

That is how I see it. Your Universe may differ.

Originally posted by atlasastro
It does depend on who you ask, in this case its an interpretation of the significance of Jesus. One could have a similar alternative interpretation of the terra papers that would deviate from the significance you attribute to them, namely that Star Elder is the L&S

LOL! I guess... But I see nothing in the Papers other than the mention that Bek'Ti (Star Elder's name) was an alien that crashed here and was rescued by the Hopi. The Papers are very straightforward.

" Many sects of that movement believe that all is forgiven, no matter how heinously one behaves, as long as Jesus is accepted as L&S.

Your seem to be stretching it here, and i believe you are trying to infere that any person who accepts jesus as L&S can go about behaving in a heinious fashion. Kind of oxymoronic.

No... I am saying that SOME do believe that, as long as, at the end of one's life, one accepts Jesus as L&S, it just doesn't matter what they did with their life, no matter how heinous.

I believe though, that if one did behave in a manner that society or I, would deem heinous, most churches or religious groups, and even individuals who believe in Jesus would still hope that the person who behaved in that manner could still find redemption. Spiritual redemption. Not legal or criminal redemption. That is why the courts and the law are two seperate things these days.

I understand about the difference and that you are speaking of spiritual redemption. And of course those that believe in the Bible would hope that. Other religions may hope the same relative to their religious dogma. And those who are agnostic or atheist likely to hope they get their [stuff] together and quit being a rectal orifice.

My point was merely that, with a belief that one can be redeemed at the very end by accepting Jesus as L&S, why worry about it now? Have fun and stab people in the back to get on top now, and later, after living a comfortable life gained though poor behavior, one can always do the L&S thing.

Thus my statement that one can do any heinous thing and still be "ok" in the end.

So, there is just a small slice of why people believe, The Bible, Witnesses sharing their encounters with the devine.

Or presumed divine...

Or say you presume someone claiiming their grandfather was visited by aliens is telling the absolute truth.

Well... I presume this because:

A) I can talk to the man himself, and he seems rational, sane and earnest;
B) The story he offers from this alien matches historical records, and;
C) The story answered all of my WHYs about how things operate in this world - which never made sense in any other perspective.

So... [shrug]

BTW, i think you should look into how saints actually become saints.

I understand that sainthood is conferred because of things unexplainable by our present paradigm. Personally, I believe that the power of Consciousness (the mind) is infinite, and if we learn how to use this power, we can do things that are unexplainable by the present paradigm. [shrug]

Not so laughable. If one presumes the power of the mind is infinite, one needs no god to be the source of the miracles of healing.

You can make all the points you want based on presumptions.

No more presumptuous that any claims made in reference to a divine being outside of oneself.

How can the mind hold infinite power, when given the natural mortality of its organic matter, it is finite. How can something that is finite, possess the infinite.

Well... I could fill a number of posts explaining this, but the simple explanation is... Draw a line. Say...3" long. That line is quite finite, n'est pas? Now... How many points are there in that line (mathematically speaking)? If you know the answer, you will know that the finite is quite capable of containing the infinite.

Those who attribute miracles to God etc, do so as it is natural and logical to accept the limits of human existence, these limits are evidential in every day life.

These limits are there because we believe they are there.

You call me on my mention of The Terra Papers, but understand that I bring them up for a reason. They illustrate the power religion gives that some - usually a priesthood - use to manipulate and enslave others, and how and why the Abrahamic religions came about.

Please, this is a boring arguement.

Heh. One, it's not an argument. It is a statement (maybe that's why it seemed boring as an argument...). Second, it is true.

Religion does not give people power. People give other people power.

Well... If you want to get technical, you are right here. Only if one chooses to believe a particular piece of dogma, religious, political or social, can one be controlled.

Other people then abuse that. These are vices of Humans. People in any position of authority in any ralm of influence or significance can and do abuse that authority. ... To say it is usual of priesthood is biased at best, and ignorant at the worst.

You must understand that I am speaking in terms of tens of thousands of years here. Only recently has the focus been more on the political end - "patriotism," as a specific example. They used the dogma of nationalism ("patriotism") to motivate us to accept war with Afghanistan, and even propelled us into war with Iraq (though with lies attached) on that wave.

But even still, for the Muslims who were drawn into the war on the false flag of 9/11, it's religious. And both sides were manipulated by the same force. I say that behind it were the aliens, who have been on this planet for tens of thousands of years, with other aliens before them for a million years or more.

And I say it is the aliens who are behind the promoting of religion on this planet.

Please, cheaps shots at organisations are only marginally supportive of you, if you want to look at institutionalised corruption within a specific system, in this case the system would be organised religion.

No "cheap shots." Analysis with the data I have, only.

Believing in Spirit is different that believing there is some greater force "out there." It implies that the force flows the other way - not from outside to in, but from inside to out.

true, you could run this senario in any number of variations. Ultimately it comes down to what you believe.

And what you believe stems from your analysis of the data you have. [shrug]

And believe me, religion has been used as a rich source of control and manipulation throughout history.

So has fear, so has greed, so has patriotism. Why are you here, just to smear religion. This is old, and quite frankly, its been done to death, in this instance, poorly.

Oh, good heavens! I am here to offer my perspective. You seem to be getting defensive.

Ok. Man is imperfect. We have used religion imperfectly. Like we have with science, and politics, and the law. Does that make them bad?

Did I say they were "bad?" I said they were constructed initially to bend our search for spiritual satisfaction into a useful tool of control.

The war-suppliers have promoted and prompted war through setting one "True!" religion against another "True!" religion, to their vast profit.

This is were the generalised conspiracy of religion gets inflated so as to consume everyone. First you need Religion as the control tool, then you need war, and then the "war-suppliers". So now we have three elements. So its not just religion.

Very true.

Lets test your theory over the last 100 years.

I believe this falls into the realm of "recently, relative to tens of thousands of years...

(BTW, Hitler was contacted by aliens... He was used to advance war to the profit of those supplying both sides.)

War is prevelant throughout the entire history of mankind. So too is Religion.

And I say they are both alien-directed. They have been here through all our history, both remembered and not remembered.

It is only logical to concluded, that given the often violent war like nature of humans

Humans, by nature, are NOT warlike. They have been prompted into war, goaded, if you will. That humans are warlike is a lie they use to get us to accept the wars they create.

More power to you.

Cheers.

I still contend that having faith in an "out there" god is moot at best, and opens many to being manipulated and enslaved.

Contend away.

I do.

Please point out how people are manipulated and enslaved by faith in an "out there god". I mean if it is moot, how could it also imply predisposition to enslavement and manipulation.

Well... There was (is) tithing - work to support the priesthood. That is slavery. There is being told that it's ok to kill, because others are "heathens" or "infidels." It's ok to revile (or even kill!) homosexuals, because it's "against god..." It's ok to bomb abortion clinics... There's a few.

Having faith in an Out there alien...

LOLOL! FAITH!?! No... I have an acceptance that the history, that is offered through a man I can consult with, is true - based on my analysis of the data I have, NONE of which requires FAITH! Only education about history, economics, psychology, current events, and other matters concerning the reality I find myself in.

...who spoke to someones grandad, who then passes on the tale after being inspired by a convicted criminal,

Now THAT was a disingenuous (and untrue) shot. There was no "inspiration." Only a realization that the info was out there and need not be hidden. I roll my eyes. (out of room

[edit on 8/1/2008 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by atlasastro

Originally posted by Amaterasu

As The Terra Papers suggest... The Universe in happenstance created the first life. It just wasn't here on Earth.

Well i raise your Terra Papers suggesting that and throw in Science supporting creationist theory

Oh! There's science? Do tell me of it! I have seen not one shred.

via the observable expanding universe, big bang theory supported by cosmic backgound microwaves,

Ohhhhh. That supports creationism...how?

oh and the bible saying God did it.

Seems to me there are other books that say other things. Which to believe, which to believe...

What i find funny about the terra papers is that it talks about highly evolved space races who dabble in intergalactic warfare and DNA hybrid experiments who write of the creation of life in the universe as "happenstance". Um. OK.

So? I guess I'm missing a point there.

In a Universe where the building blocks of life have been shown to be widely prevalent, why is this a difficult concept to believe?

The vast majority of the universe is empty space, dark energy and dark matter, about 4% of it is the matter which we are made of. So it is hardly prevelant.

Ah geez. There are proteins, enzymes, and other such life-stuff identified in space and beyond. Don't be playing semantic games with me.

I think you need to brush up on what we know about the building blocks of life.

Do ya then? (I know you'll say "yes...") Heh.

What you are refering to is the standard model. This is what makes up matter. Matter that makes up life. Currently scientists do not know what causes energy to become matter. The theory is that there a field called the Higgs field and in that there is the higgs boson that performs this function. CERN will be trying to discover the Higgs Boson(also called the God Particle) with the LHC. I suggest you start looking at more Science Papers, instead of Terra ones.

Ahhh. Clearly you didn't know what I was speaking of. My apologies for failing to make myself more clear. And BTW, you are telling me nothing here I don't already know. FYI... I read science avidly, and especially physics and cosmology. I suggest you get off your snide horse.

You are really struggling now.

No. No I'm not.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
There are 100s of fulfilled prophecies that prove the author of the Bible is transcendent over the dimension of time.

I'll watch it in a moment, but do want to point out that if I handed a species who were my slaves a document with prophesy, and saw an opportune moment to make it come true... Heh. If it worked to my advantage, keeping the slaves in line, why, I would surely make the prophesy come true!

Just a thought.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Wow. Given that Daniel lived at an approximate time, I'm having trouble figuring out how it is concluded that anything happened "exactly" some given number of days from his prediction...

Or is someone taking on faith that Daniel made these predictions EXACTLY in 300 BCE (Jan. 1st, perhaps?)?

Not to disparage your faith - you are by all means welcome to it, and rightfully so. But I can't help but see a deception in this particular piece.

Maybe I missed something...

Be that as it may, Joshua (Jesus/EA-SU) knew that a teacher was expected in or around that time, and was groomed for it along with his cousin, John the Baptist. John who was older and first in line for the role was beheaded, and the role passed to Joshua.

He knew the prophesies and used them to enhance his position in the Tribes.

Just because he fulfilled these prophesies does not mean the one who prophesied really had a clue. It might mean that someone took hold of the prophesy at an opportune moment, deliberately fulfilling it, and using it to further current goals.

It could be either way.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
I am sure that if conditions were just right (which in any forest *I* know of, could never happen - but then I'm limited to a single planet in an infinite Universe), somehow a cabin could happenstancedly be erected. Given infinite time with infinite forests of infinite variety...

you are a fool if you cant tell the difference between design and "nature". i dont mean that as a insult. but we are talking about something that is so simple to figure out. if you had said, "maybe a shelter by happenstance was erected" i would say possibly, although odds are its unlikely too. but a shelter can be anything. a hole can be a shelter. but we are not talking about a hole are we, we are talking about a log cabin with interlocking joists and doors and widows

But we're not talking about cabins. We're talking about a single viable basic life form.

which is astronomically more complex. a single cell's functions have been likened to cities because of how complex they are.

And I have heard that viable viruses have been created by humans, though I cannot state that I know for sure that that has been done.

key word, "created". i have absolutely no doubt that one day humans will be able to create life, but it will be in a laboratory in controlled conditions with design. are aliens capable of this? i certainly dont see why not, if they are technologically advanced enough. but it still raises the question, who designed the alien?

Once you have life, it tried to live. And it will find ways of doing that, generation to generation. And yes, I do believe in some form of evolution, natural selection, and freak developments along the way...given an infinite Universe, with infinite planets and infinite time.

the once you have life is the big part which noone seems to be able to answer. even evolution depends on graduality but this is lacking in the first forms of life. all evidence shows they suddenly appeared in many varieties

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Wow. Given that Daniel lived at an approximate time, I'm having trouble figuring out how it is concluded that anything happened "exactly" some given number of days from his prediction...

its not from his prediction, it is from the time the king of the medes declared the rebuilding of jerusalem which does have an exact date.

Just because he fulfilled these prophesies does not mean the one who prophesied really had a clue. It might mean that someone took hold of the prophesy at an opportune moment, deliberately fulfilling it, and using it to further current goals.

It could be either way.

not if there are several hundred prophecies that need to be fulfilled. also, why would anyone do that if they knew that they would be killed for it? its makes absolutly no sense

"God" could be attributed with saying any damned thing the PTB wanted Him to to get the people to do what the PTB wanted out of them."

I think it's all about common sense. Observe:

You shall have no other gods before me

-->What's the point of worshipping someone/something that doesn't have anything to do with how ya got here or where you're heading when ya leave?

You shall not make for yourself an idol

--->What's the point of worshipping a rock or a little figurine, when you can talk to the Main guy, Himself?

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God

--->Tell me, would you like to be associated with things you had nothing to do with?

Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

--->Take a break silly. All work and no rest, makes you a walking time-bomb



[edit on 2-8-2008 by undo]