Fierce Fighting Breaks Out Along India-Pakistan Border

Fierce Fighting Breaks Out Along India-Pakistan Border

news.ino.com

Fierce fighting broke out between Indian and Pakistani troops along the border that divides the disputed Himalayan region of Kashmir on Monday, said Indian military officials.

Indian defense officials said that the fighting broke out after about 15 Pakistani soldiers crossed the border in Jammu and Kashmir's Kupwara district and attacked Indian positions, killing at least one Indian soldier in the process.

Indian officials said that they were not aware of any causality in the Pakistani ranks, but added that the Pakistani soldiers retreated to their side of the border after being challenged by the Indian troops.

This is the first major violation of the five-year-old ceasefire along the Line of Control between the two countries after the two sides signed a cease-fire accord in November 2003.

(visit the link for the full news article)

And both sides have lots of nukes....

news.ino.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

This is indeed a volatile region of the world. I recently suggested here that the dispute is not in the long-term interests of either party.

Let's hope this was just a brief local flare-up.

Maybe you could keep your eye on the situation and provide updates if a tit-for-tat ensues.

reply to post by Terrapop


Occurs they have lots of Nukes, but because they have no oil our government doesn't care in who's hands they may fall.

The irony, well let them fight their fight and let them nuke each other.

Oops, then how are we going to get our computers problems fix? India is our troubleshooter technical support.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Terrapop

 

Occurs they have lots of Nukes, but because they have no oil our government doesn't care in who's hands they may fall.

The irony, well let them fight their fight and let them nuke each other.

Oops, then how are we going to get our computers problems fix? India is our troubleshooter technical support.

Glad to see you did your homework before speaking.

fas.org...
www.fas.org...

Oops! Looks like you didn't.

I have waited long time this old friend of newsman to wake alive again: Kasmir. It was silence so many years, and US invading in Afghanistan silenced this regionfor many years.

Now Musharraf is broke, and Kasmir is back. Interesting to see what is going to happen there now, but more interresting is to send there group of journalist and ask, what has happen there in all these years!

Kasmir was long time the real option to escalating a great war to east. Now the name is back on the table.

Hopefully it will be short lived, it is most likely just more control tactics to keep people in fear and compliance.

Originally posted by Terrapop


And both sides have lots of nukes....

news.ino.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

i tend to think we all know, as people of the world, just how dangerous nuke warfare can be and therefore is mainly used as a defense tactic and not so much aggressive, excluding what we did to hiroshima, i think the world learned from that

i dont think itd come to that just yet, look how many years of war, israel and palastine have been fighting and nothing

Us has been the only one to really use that much destructive force in that split of a second, so it makes me think its highly unlikely itll revert to this, if it comes close, i think other countries would step in to aid or fight either side before this would come to pass

I have several friends who are second and third generation Indian and Pakistani extraction and, for fear of grossly generalising, I think it's fair to say that they truly despise each other with a passion.
There is an inbred hatred that stretches back centuries.

No-one dare intefere, not because no-one cares or because it won't harm western / world economic affairs but simply due to the fear of being accused of neo-colonialism and no-one wants to face up to the fact that races other than White Caucasians can be racist.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Terrapop

 

Occurs they have lots of Nukes, but because they have no oil our government doesn't care in who's hands they may fall.

The irony, well let them fight their fight and let them nuke each other.

Oops, then how are we going to get our computers problems fix? India is our troubleshooter technical support.

Perhaps one of the more ignorant comments out there.

Do you think the USA has not TRIED to get into their mess ? It CAN'T ! Imagine getting into something a million times the mess Iraq is and you would come close to Kashmir. Each side has more than half a MILLION tropps! ALL of them are heavily trained and battle hardened from fighting terrorists and each other. Both of them have nukes. And both of them are sufficiently sophisticated that without using nuclear weapons, the USA would have a hard time "winning" (if there is such a thing in war! ).

Even if there was a freaking Oil lake there, I doubt the USA would want to jump into that mud pit. Its not worth the hassle. Besides, with neighbors like China and Russia, that region is a true "HOT SPOT". The only people in the world who can solve those problems are the Indians and the Pakistanis. Nobody else.

Its not Palestine where we can "quieten the kids down" with our military.

As for nuking each other. The nukes are what are keeping the Indians from wiping out the Pakistanis and the Pakistanis from launching a full scale guerrilla campaign on the Indians.

Originally posted by Freeborn
There is an inbred hatred that stretches back centuries.

India and Pakistan have been around for only 60 odd years.

The hatred is more fundamental than simply one people against another. It is about many many things.

It is about land, religion, ideologies, betrayal , revenge, vengeance, rivalry etc. With so many points of contention, there can be no quick fix.

Yes, in name they have only been around for a relatively short time, but their cultures and societies have been around for millennia and they truly despise each other!

I know it's a gross generalisation and it's not quite PC, but it's true, regardless how much spin people try to wrap around it.

I agree there is no quick and easy solution.

Much will depend on future developments in Pakistan.

This is ANOTHER one of the secnerios that could lead to WWIII...

India, and Pakistan BOTH have nukes..
Both think the teriorty is theirs (Kashmere)


Lets hope this doesnt esclilate like Georgia-Rusia did...

Originally posted by marg6043
The irony, well let them fight their fight and let them nuke each other.

Oops, then how are we going to get our computers problems fix? India is our troubleshooter technical support.

Why would you want India to get nuked?
Unlike the U.S., we've never invaded another country...EVER
So why would you wish harm on a peaceful country?

And haha very funny on your lame joke.
Your country is getting bankrupted by the govt. stealing your money so it can use that money to oppress other nations and you mock india because of businesses outsourcing their tech support to STUDENTS?????

Would you rather prefer Indians set up telemarketing offices and hire many many students and have them call elderly people to try and scam them like the U.S. does?

People like you are lost, confused and ignorant. You mock good things in other countries while horrors is happening in your own country.

Go back to sleep!

btw I am indian and most of what all of you is saying is incorrect.

Yes India has enmity towards Pakistan.
However..... things are chaning.

The youth in India are very different. Last few times I went to India and said some things about Pakistan I was quickly told "you shouldn't say that, alot of them are good people." And stuff like that.

Things are changing, alot of elderly people who grew up in harder times still have animosity, but not necessarily with the youth.

Most young people have no hate towards Pakistan. They blame the govt. more than Pakistan, both govts of both countries, not the people, and even their own govt.

TKZ, Yeah this is a definate potential flashpoint.

There is a big difference between this and Russia - Georgia though.
The victor in that conflict was a foregone conclusion and the major power involved has had decades of having nuclear weapons in their arsenal and is well versed in global politics.
Russia is more than aware of the M.A.D. scenario.
I suspect that USA / NATO were more than aware of what Russia were going to do.
Yes, the usual political rhetoric occurred.
Exactly the same as Kosovo. (who I may add we, The West / NATO, supported their right to self-determination but deny the same right to South Ossettia, slightly hypocritical, but that's for another thread methinks).

As you rightly mention Kashmir is claimed by both countries.
China also rules part of Kashmir.
There is also a movement for independance.
You will be hard pressed to find a more contested area anywhere else on earth.

Added to this there is a history of centuries of religious conflict between Muslims, Hundu's, Sikh's and Buddhist's.
We are all aware of the hatred that religious intolerace can breed, that hatred runs very, very deep here.

I know a few people of both Indian and Pakistani origin and I assure you, the hatred is deep and mutual.
They all get very irate and emotional if the subject ever comes up.
This from some who are essentially westernised and two or three generations removed from their point of origin.
Imagine the intensity of feeling of those in the rural hotbed of the contested area itself.

The new leader of Pakistan will have to show he is strong and be prepared to defend his borders.
He will be facing immense pressure from numerous elements within his country.

The Indian government will be under enprmous pressure to press forth with their claims and to exploit any percieved weakness in Pakistan's new leadership.

Whilst neither country has ICBM both have enough firepower to cause utter devestation within the region.
I also suspect that they would both be prepared to use them if they felt under enough pressure.

Whilst none of the worlds super powers would wish to get dragged into any confrontation, they may not have the luxury of keeping completely neutral.
Sad as any war is, that would be when the major proverbial could start flying with possible dire consequences for all of us.

A potential powder keg indeed.

[edit on 22/8/08 by Freeborn]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You must have posted your thoughts whilst I was writing my reply to TKZ so I never got a chance to read them until now.

What you say is re-assuring.
I am aware that India is developing.
But it is such a big country and so wrapped in tradition that any progress will be slow.
However, it is refreshing and encouraging to hear that the 'circle of hatred' is being broken.
Yet, I imagine this will be in the more populated and modern cities like Mumbai etc.
As you will be more aware than I, India is very, very big with a massive rural population and large poor communities with little or no education.
The old ways still hold sway there.

I imagine the same can be said about Pakistan.

Unfortunately, it is not these young, progressive people who have the power and influence, but the old, established families and religious bodies.

Let's hope that no major confrontation occurs before these people have a chance to influence and move into positions of responsiblity etc.

reply to post by Freeborn

Yes alot of what you say is true.

But some things to keep in mind.

Yes there are alot of poor villages with little or no education.
But there also no TVs or newspapers there, so many of them don't even know about the Kashmir conflict(not talking about every village though).

Tradition and Culture can exist with the absence of ignorance.
In such situations you will find the best of people on earth with the most respectable families.

Alot of youths are very traditional, cultured and religious but have no hatred for muslims, in some cases this rejection of hate sometimes comes from religion, as hindus believe you can go to a church or mosque if you wish, there's nothing to hide.

Less populated areas, as you mentioned, don't really involve themselves with politics, but of course religion yes. This IS a generalization but is what I observed.