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posted on Jan, 10 2003 @ 04:59 PM
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Those who dont understand god are always those who attack him.


I said, "I see God as genuinely loving and forgiving". You'd have to be abnormally thin-skinned to take that as an insult.



he has (no) choice


He's omnipotent. That implies a certain level of choice in all things.




god never says " you dont worship me you burn in hell "

he simply lets you decide and after death if you choose not to believe you (choose) (seperation from eternity.


So... you choose not to believe, you go to Hell. See, I'm still seeing that as the same thing.



is god supposed to say..

You did not believe in me and laughed and mocked those who did, come on in to my kingdom?


He says he's our father. My father never rejected me or turned me away, not even when I mocked my brother. He forgives me when I do bad stuff. He does this because he loves me. And when people love people, they forgive them stuff. But when God loves people, he's still willing to let them burn in hell.
If the people I love are going to Hell, there'd be no point in Heaven to me. How could I be happy when my loved ones were suffering nthe torments of the damned?



would you let a robber in heaven?


Jesus was crucified between two criminals. When one asked Him to remember him, he said "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." (Luke 23:43)

Would I let a robber into heaven? Don't know. But Jesus did. Because he loves, and forgives.




posted on Jan, 10 2003 @ 06:09 PM
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Sure, why not? Well, depends. If the person stole to feed themselves or family, sure. Or if they stole so they could pay the rent so they wouldn't be forced onto the street, as long as other person ok, sure. If he stole to buy new sneakers or drugs or pants five sizes to big, no. Send the b@$t@rd to hell.

Or if a person killed. If self defense, or a common one, a woman being beaten and abused by boyfreind/husband and finally snaps and kills him, ok. If she kills him because he kept eating her bake goods she made for others, and then posioned one and told him not to eat it, but knowing he would, send her to hell.(That was from a book by J.D. Robb, she got off with manslaughter since she told him not to eat the cake)

It all depends on the situation. Say truth stopped being psychotic, and stopped hearing voices. Then he killed someone, hell time. If he still heard the voice of god as he claims he does, and told to kill a Jew or something like that by god, send him to psychoward. Well, up to me, still send him to psychoward. He thinks god talks to him, he sees thing he believes to be "miracles".(Ok, the pizza guy coming in under thirty minutes could be a miracle, but seeing as how he probably lives above it, not to much of one) And my favorites, he gets his info from a site that tells you you are going to hell several times in one paragraph.(The clam shells found closed and whale on end disproves evolution the best of the "information")



posted on Jan, 10 2003 @ 11:00 PM
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"Jesus was crucified between two criminals. When one asked Him to remember him"
Actually he asked for forgiveness. If you ask for forgiveness from God, you believe in God. You accept God's forgiveness and God's presence. It has nothing to do with the discussion of not believing in God and going away from hell. The other criminal chose to laugh at Jesus for dying for a "pointless cause". This criminal chose to turn away from God and deny him. This criminal went to hell for turning away.

Maybe a better way to put it is that God doesn't cast you away from God, but you cast yourself away and choose your own fate.



posted on Jan, 11 2003 @ 03:27 AM
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42 And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

King James version- don't know which version you read from.

Jesus died for that guys sins, right? He was cruelly crucified for the bad things the criminal did. But... the criminal was cruelly crucified to. The criminal did a bad thing. He paid for it. This strikes me as equitable, although crucifixion is pretty harsh. I feel people should pay for their own sins, and maybe learn something. It strikes me as rather biased that the only sin God will not forgive is not believing in and worshipping him. That for God, having reasonable doubt and not wanting to blindly commit yourself is worse than killing your wife or raping your child. I feel his priorities are skewed.



posted on Jan, 11 2003 @ 10:58 AM
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Now, me, not believing in god would go to hell, right?And for not believing in him, I suffer eternal torment, right?

Is it not human nature to doubt, question, and discover?

Essentially what I am getting to is that, well....I am going to hell for being human...Is that fair? For being curious...I suffer eternal torment.

I don't like the idea of a diety who gives out those kind of options. That is why I refuse to believe. I cannot believe a god, or much less a human, could ever do that.

Now I'm not trying to make anyone question their faith, but...Would you, say, follow a king or president(for that matter) that sent people to a dungeon/jail for questioning their decisions? No, you wouldn't, or most of you anyway. There would be a revolution, or the leader would be put out of power. (ie: Hitler, Napoleon, Stalin, leaders of Somolia, The roman rulers, ect...)

Anyway my point is, that is why many won't believe, including me. I have no blind faith. I will not waste my life in hopes I will go to this eternal place of goodness in the afterlife. I will pursue the mysteries of life, always question, no answer is good enough.

"If all evidence points to one and only one conclusion, then it is most likely false and the evidence was planted."



posted on Jan, 12 2003 @ 07:05 PM
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There is no way that we can understand anything beyond us like god or hell so talking about hell or god in our terms is like an ant explaining the working of an A bomb.

Beyond that I believe there is no after life as many people think of it. I think that the after life is another step in realty no worse no better just different. I think that god would not judge us in any way if youre a saint or Hitler after all you are a product of his universe nothing you do is truly wrong the point of life is to experience life. Im not saying that we should go out and kill some one just to know how it feels like, we should understand that we are a product of are blood are parents are world, and being a product is just part of the experience. The whole survival of the fittest is just another part of life. So we should stop try to understand things like god and try to understand life. Just let life be and try to enjoy every second of it the pain and the pleasure.



posted on Jan, 12 2003 @ 08:29 PM
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Truth I think it very sad that you would treat your imagination as a vessel for a conclusion that your friend is in hell. A person who has spent all his or her life suffering and in pain, is very likely to conclude that God simply does not exist. Its very apparent "truth" that in relation to this issue you are suffering from a delusion, one which disallows you to see what is apparent. Did this individuals lead a good life? Did he harm others
to further his personal interest???

"Truth" States



But even if one truly does not believe the priest and is (sincere) he can be saved as long as he is just, but
if he rejects Jesus for his own hate without even knowing about him he cannot be saved.

No faithful just man will go to hell, meaning those who live by the commands and truly do not know the church of Christ to be true.



At 17 "truth" had he actually done anything that warranted a sentence in eternity to hell???????



posted on Jan, 12 2003 @ 09:50 PM
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I find that odd toltec you call me delusional when you do not even know
the man im talking about.

have you seen him, have you been to his funeral, have you lived around him your whole life?


Im stating a dream ive had which was truly one of the most scary real dreams ive ever had. i hope to god its not true but it seemed very real.


The particular person did not suffer all his life, infact this problem was not a big problem until he was older and he played sports all
the time with us ect..

All i know is that he did not believe in god by his own will.

i will not judge whaat kind of a kid he was because thats not my choice to judge.


whatever his outcome may be is what it will be, but i was just stating a dream so real that i could actually feel how bad it was there, it was
like i was really talking to him.

the rest only god knows.

peace.



posted on Jan, 12 2003 @ 10:13 PM
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"" how could i enjoy heaven if my family members aare in hell ""?


Ok let me say this.

If you loved god and made it to heaven and your family members hated god, would you love them so greatly and be friends with someone who hates god?

i have a brother and family members who do not love god and his commands. i love them greatly and pray for them, but if they
choose seperation from god and the kingdom of perfection then they will not be family members of mine but enimies to god.

I love god above all else and he comes first, i love my family members but if they dont want a god in their life then they choose a life without me who loves god above (all).


if you pray for your family with love and sacrafice, those who are sincere and love god he will call to his kingdom.


God understands deeply how important our family is to us.


For instance, i love god dearly, if one of my brothers hated god and his command he would not be in my life very much, he would be going against my whole belief and it would anger me to not be with this person family
or not.

if heaven was open to all, then heaven would be a corrupt place of unbelievers.


"" why does god send his children to hell if he loves them ""


because those who dont love him are not his children, by creation they are but not by deed and spirit and they
become children of satan who hated god even more.

This is in the bible plenty times.

his children love him and love his commands and love the just.


God talks about men becoming children of satan in the bible over and over.



hell is not just burning fire, there are different levels of hell.

for those who have not done much evil will have different degrees of hell.


for the pure evil like hitler there will be fire and demons showing you your mistakes for eternity.

whatever you loved in this world by your senses is how you will be punished afterwards by the senses.


there is a hell of darkness which is those whom are seperated from him for eternity and there is hell fire for the most evil of people.


Now ill ask this last thing.

if there was no hell where have hitler and all the evil like him gone?


should god welcome their hate in heaven?

is aa maan like hitler really gods children?


and so if there was no hell there would be no (justice) and bad acts and evil acts would go unpunished and
would be rewarded.

is that a god of love and justice?

These questions never seem to come into the minds of refuters of hell.

peace.



posted on Jan, 12 2003 @ 10:25 PM
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james you are truly something else, your words simply amaze me.

let me point to you two things for the last time.

1. I do not want you in hell and do not think you are going to hell, infact i offer
sacrafices of (suffering) for your conversion and for you to turn around in your attitude.


2. God never has talked to me, i have never seen visions of spirits,, i believe so much baised on faith and miracles.



You have to be the most (un)sincere person ive ever talked to.

and only post to bring distinction to the topic.

why?

other than...

"" you say god talk to you, you think me going to hell, truth post website say
me going to hell five time a minute ""


what brought you to a conspiracy website?

peace.



posted on Jan, 12 2003 @ 11:09 PM
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Just because you don't love God doesn't mean you hate him. There are other choices. Not believing in him, total indifference, quite liking him, having mixed opinions due to the mixed messages in the bible. And others.

In the same way, I feel there might be other choices than heaven or hell.
You say Hitler shouldn't go to heaven. But if, at the end, he repented his crimes and believed in Christ- then he's in heaven, right?

I feel the thing about love is that when you love someone, you don't want them to sufffer. Those who are a danger to others, yeah, segregate them. But what's the point of them burning in hell forever? It's not like they're going to get the chance to do it again anyway, is it? It's punishment for the sake of it. And that makes God sadistic, as far as I can tell.



posted on Jan, 12 2003 @ 11:11 PM
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Heaven and Hell are only mechanisms which keep disgruntled church goers from leaving.
Truth as for your claims, get a life, stop making up bull#.

I could ramble on like you, but what's the point.



posted on Jan, 13 2003 @ 02:07 PM
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Also, where hell? Where heaven? People made a tower to reach heaven, which god knocked down in the bible. But we know heaven isn't in the sky, so he had no reason to knock the tower down.

Hell, it was said to be underground. But it just dirt, magma, so forth, no hell.

So, where are they? Is heaven on planet Zeebwes and hell on Tyrosan? Where is it truth? God talks to you, so you should know. Also, where is my remote? If god knows all, he should know where it is. This is HELL having to get up and go to tv to change the channel.



posted on Jan, 13 2003 @ 05:13 PM
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How can one prove that heaven, hell, god, or satan even exist. If you cannot experience out of this realm of reality, how can you prove that there is another realm?
Have you been there? No, you haven't.
Until someone comes up with definite proof that there is a god, heaven, ect... besides personal or mass faith, I will assume that it cannot possibly exist.
So, Truth, you prove it...(I'm listening)



posted on Jan, 19 2003 @ 01:18 PM
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mad scientists your ignorance knows no bounds.

you dont have the slightest clue why i have faith and believe in god.

and never will unless god does something dramatic in your life.

ill give you these words..

An athiest fears no god all his life until he comes to reality of the death bed that will come to us all, then he thinks
and thinks what will be next, the moment of fear arives at the last moment of death and all the days of laughing ay believers and
mocking them will be on their minds and they will have been in misery.


Nothing else i can say to you guys filled with hate.

JH, proof will be given aafter death when reality of eternal life is granted, all will come to the death bed and all
will see proof of what im talkin about.

proof on earth is to easy and would consist of no faith.

maay saints have witnessed hell, the people at fatima have witnessed hell, whaat i saw was as real as anything.


choose not to believe in (sincerity) is better then saying it dont exist.

because you dont know the same as i dont know what does and does not exist.

i believe in the saints and the miracles and what they and i saw, and this is why i believe.

proof will be given after death.

peace.



posted on Jan, 19 2003 @ 01:52 PM
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The similarities among NDEs are too great to be ignored. My own research has revealed the following statistics representing the similarities among 50 experiences:

(69%) experienced overwhelming love.
(65%) experienced communication through mental telepathy.
(62%) experienced a life review.
(56%) experienced a tremendous ecstasy.
(56%) saw God.
(46%) were given unlimited knowledge.
(46%) experienced different afterlife levels.
(46%) were told it was not their time to die.
(44%) were shown some aspect of the future.
(42%) went through a tunnel.
(37%) met Christ.
(31%) received and remembered forgotten knowledge.
(27%) experienced fear.
(21%) described it as a "homecoming."
(21%) were told of their past lives.
(19%) experienced some form of hell.
(17%) saw a "City of light."
(13%) saw a "Temple of Knowledge."
(10%) saw spirits dwelling among living people.
(6%) of these NDEs are the result of a suicide attempt.
(0%) saw the Devil.



www.near-death.com...



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 05:38 AM
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Are you sure this dream you had didnt have something to do with some type of guilt you had at the fact that you were a healthy kid and your best friend was dying, maybe their was something you could have done, probably not. But the fact that your subconscious added religion into the dream probably means your not strong enough mentally to handle losing a friend and had to use god as a excuse not to accept the fact the kid was born with a bad heart, my car came with a broken CD player, if it believed in heaven will it start working up there?


If god is all good, all knowing, and all-powerful then why is there evil? (Oldie but a goodie)



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 09:28 AM
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Because good cannot exist without evil. Up cannot exist without down. Left cannot exist without right. Cold cannot exist without hot.



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 11:25 AM
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Truth, I am willing to wait until I die. Until then, I will try to make some improvement on this miserable little planet we call earth.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a faith, as long as it teaches good morals. But, sadly, religion keeps people apart. People of different religions tend to hate each other, thinking one is wrong, and one is right.

Wars have been fought, people have been killed, all because one group thought their interpretation was better.

How do you explain the Native American, Hindu, and Chinese religions? Are they wrong, because many of their ideas contradict your own.



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 08:44 PM
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JH, don't ask him that, he will condem you to hell. Then it will happen for god talks to him. I feel sorry for anyone who lives near him. You say something wrong around him, his god might tell him to kill you.






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