What makes a man, a man?

I was a member of a different forum a few years ago and this was asked. It wasn't an alternative topic forum like ATS, so the answers were all very stereotypical. I was kind of surprised at how quickly everyone jumped in and filled in their idea of the "ideal man". Yet, no one was willing to jump in and say what they thought made a woman a woman.

Anyways, I was curious what the ATS answers would be.

We all (or most of us anyways) know of a guy who is old enough to be physiologically a man, but still acts like an child.

So, in your opinion, what makes a man a man?

And for extra credit, if you are feeling froggy.....what in your opinion makes a woman a woman?

Are you asking what makes a man and not a boy? And should I define this in terms of people born legally female but grow up and believe in their hearts they are men?

reply to post by Alexander_Supertramp



I am asking, beyond the obvious genetic explanations...ie genitals / puberty. Philosophically, what makes a man a man in your opinion.

For example, would you consider a 30 year old that lives at home with his parents, plays video games all day, has no job... a man or just an old boy? Conversely, would you consider a 30 year old that lives on his own, is raising a family, stands up for what he believes in...etc a man?

Where do you draw the line? Or is it simply, anyone with the correct set of genitals that has gone through puberty is a man...period.

A full-grown reproductive organ, obviously. The rest is al decoration.

Just to be clear i pretty much against stereotyping of anything. Saying a man is a man when he has developed some kind of traits that make them fit in the generally accepted standard of manliness just doesn't work that well. It creates a unhappy bunch of people that are not happy with themselves because they don't have those desired attributes.

So the basics of being a man is just the physical attributes and nothing more.

Good question, I've never really thought about it all that deeply. For starters, I will define what I believe makes a person mature, which I suppose is the same thing as being a 'man.' I'm sure I could think of more, but this should should at least be a good start for conversation..

Someone who can make moral decisions based on life experiences. Granted, each man has his own morals and ideologies, but if one can make quick, effortless decisions based on their personal values, I would consider that person a man.

Someone who is able to show compassion for others, even if those do not deserve it; yet at the same time know when compassion isn't the best medicine. Discipline, specifically towards children, is quite necessary at certain times.

reply to post by Harman


Thanks for the response, this is what I expect to be a fairly common answer for the ATS crowd. And I do not mean that in a derogatory manner whatsoever. Honestly, I am hoping that I don't get judged to harshly for suggesting otherwise.

Maybe it is the best and most psychologically mature thing to not have any pre-concieved notions of gender roles and what not, but I think that most people still have them.

I think it is noteworthy that children who grow up without a positive male role model tend to develop differently than children who do. It isn't always the case, but it does seem to be fairly common. To me, that would at least suggest that there could be something to the "Father Figure".

Anyways, thanks again.

Interesting question I guess.
What makes a man is based on ideology from different perceptions.
You sighted two in your second post. There is also the ‘mans man’ and the ‘Gentleman’ to be thrown into the pot – so to speak.

That is what makes us all so ‘individual’.
The firemen of 911 who rushed into the building whilst all around them was crumbling, are they more of a man than those who were rushing out of the building?
Those rushing out had different agendas to those rushing in. They may have been the only ‘breadwinners’ in the family and subsequently felt their families may not be safe if this was a national attack etc.
Sorry to complicate matters, but in my humble opinion, the definition of a man is defined by those who know him for all his faults and foibles.

My 2c
H

A man takes responsibitly for himself, and if he is a husband, his wife , and if he is a father, his children. He protects, he feeds, and he provides for himself and them. He does not hit, lash out for no reason, he does not complain that his load is too heavy. After a grueling work day he would come home and rub his wifes sore shoulders. A real woman would recognize his plight and pain, and come to his rescue instead though. A real man makes the time to play with his kids, time for his wife, and demands time for himself as it should be. A real man would only live with his parents if it were to be their caretaker, unless illness keeps him from being on his own.

reply to post by space cadet


Thanks for posting. I think that is a good definition. I would imagine though, that it would be met with resistance here. Even in today's PC world we are taught not to place such lables on people. I kind of see it as two main crowds, people with your opinion and people with Harman's opinion. Of course there will be the grey area as well.

reply to post by Havalon


I would consider a lot of the "mans man" type of guys to be only overgrown children. The ones who are really only into their "big boy toys" and drinking beer....etc.
Obviously, many are not and really are like super men, excelling at all things manly.

reply to post by Karlhungis


I would imagine so too Karl. But IMO my definition is what a real man should be, unfortunately not many are that defined as men. But just because a guy is 30 and still in his parents home playing video games doesn't mean that he won't still be inspired to become more than he is today. Usually men tend to step up only when inspired to. Some men learn it from their very smart fathers and mothers. Some men meet a woman that they want to do everything for, and give the moon to, and that drive turns them into a man. Some never learn though, lol!

Originally posted by space cadet
A man takes responsibitly for himself, and if he is a husband, his wife , and if he is a father, his children. He protects, he feeds, and he provides for himself and them. He does not hit, lash out for no reason, he does not complain that his load is too heavy. After a grueling work day he would come home and rub his wifes sore shoulders. A real woman would recognize his plight and pain, and come to his rescue instead though. A real man makes the time to play with his kids, time for his wife, and demands time for himself as it should be. A real man would only live with his parents if it were to be their caretaker, unless illness keeps him from being on his own.

You said many of the things I was going to say, only you did it better.

I'm from an older generation and a "man" take responsibility for his and his families actions why under his protection.

A simplistic view of a woman is that she "takes care" of the man.

In a stereotypical view she is a home maker and care tender to the children and her man. She may not be the hunter / gatherer of the family, but she does provide the meals for the family to eat. Think of the 1950's TV families of "Leave it to Beaver" or "Father Knows Best".

A real view is a woman is part of a two income family. Has no real time for anything but basic needs of children or the husband.

My definition of a man is akin to space cadet's. A man takes responsibility for his own actions, he provides for himself and his family to the best of his ability, he is not afraid to ask for help if he needs it, and is able to show his emotions for those he cares for without fear of criticism or embarrassment.

I think all of the same traits apply to being a woman as well. The only difference between the two are physiological.. i.e. their genitalia, and possibly a size differential.






[edit on 29-7-2008 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Harman

 

Thanks for the response, this is what I expect to be a fairly common answer for the ATS crowd. And I do not mean that in a derogatory manner whatsoever. Honestly, I am hoping that I don't get judged to harshly for suggesting otherwise.

Maybe it is the best and most psychologically mature thing to not have any pre-concieved notions of gender roles and what not, but I think that most people still have them.

I think it is noteworthy that children who grow up without a positive male role model tend to develop differently than children who do. It isn't always the case, but it does seem to be fairly common. To me, that would at least suggest that there could be something to the "Father Figure".

Anyways, thanks again.

No probs, i do think you could slap a minimal description to being an adult and that is being able to be self-sufficient in however you life , no difference in male of female imo. In a relationship you can be self-sufficient as a couple ofcourse but in the end it doesn't matter what the man or woman does to make the relationship work. If the man has a better job/education of the two he becomes main breadwinner and if a woman has a better job/education she can do it. Does it make a man any less a man if he has a part-time job, takes care of any kids and does the most in the household? And if so, why? What rationale can anyone give that it is the case ouside of the reason that it has always been so? That something is done most in a certain way doesn't mean that it always is the best way.

I mean, look at New York, there is a trend going on there that the women are on average better educated and has better jobs than the men and they are having trouble to find a guy that accepts that situation. So there are thousands of hot and rich women that cannot get a man i'm almost inclined to emigrate to the US and life there . A pre-described role of a man is just another dogma and dogma's are not of any use to anyone in any field of reality.

[edit on 29-7-2008 by Harman]

Because it needs to be posted... the old medical chuckle is that there is a vas deferens between men and women. Look it up.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Harman

 

I think it is noteworthy that children who grow up without a positive male role model tend to develop differently than children who do. It isn't always the case, but it does seem to be fairly common. To me, that would at least suggest that there could be something to the "Father Figure".

Of course there is. Just as there is something to the "Mother Figure". We are all shaped by our environments in different ways. Our parents, or lack thereof has a huge effect on how we develop as human beings. Both through genes and environment.

The initial question is a good and really hard one. First of all everyone will have a different definition of the word man. What meaning to interpret in the word?

For me 'man' has positive meaning. I suppose I would consider a man someone who has male characteristics and at some point in my life I have looked to and felt; "That's how I want to be when I grow up".

I can remember a line of 'men'; My father(who I lost at the early age of 9), one or two teachers over the years in school, my current English teacher(studying to become an English teacher here in Sweden) the shortest most impressive man I've ever met. The list goes on, but a man, is someone that has had a positive effect on me during my lifetime.

Originally posted by LLoyd45
My definition of a man is akin to space cadets.

I read this last page from the bottom up, so I didn't see Space Cadets response before yours.

That made your statement seem as your definition of a man is that he is akin to a Space Cadet. Sorry, but that just cracked me up.

Originally posted by hinky
A simplistic view of a woman is that she "takes care" of the man.

In a stereotypical view she is a home maker and care tender to the children and her man. She may not be the hunter / gatherer of the family, but she does provide the meals for the family to eat. Think of the 1950's TV families of "Leave it to Beaver" or "Father Knows Best".

Perhaps some insight can be gained by considering a more historical and anthropological view of the roles of men/women.

Simplistically: Men hunt, conquer, and rashly effect change. Women nurture, care for the family, and provide balance and stability against the men's role.

Looking at the United States today, I feel it is still, in terms of business and politics, a male-dominated society. In many ways, men are doing what they have always done -- compete and dominate.

I feel, though, that there is an imbalance. Women are not providing an adequate 'stabilizing' force against the irrationalities of society. Consider environmental stupidity, unfair economics, and unnecessary military aggression. Traditionally, women, as the gender 'responsible' for providing a stable long-term environment for offspring, have acted to 'keep their men in check', by opposing such long-term unhealthy trends.

However, I see signs that many women in America today have given up that role, seeking a new independence. That's not wrong -- change is good, and no one should be placed in a pigeonhole due to their gender. However, there may also a long-term danger to human society. Perhaps by embracing short-term materialism and unchecked consumerism, a necessary balance, traditionally provided by women, has been lost.

In my opinion, a real woman asserts her femininity reflective of the truth she finds within herself, without submission to either historical stereotypes or ideas of what a modern woman 'should' be.

I think what separates a man from a boy is maturity. Not the typical maturity as our society describes it...maturity as described by Immanuel Kant.

Kant defined maturity as a willingness to make one's own descisions. I once read an example that summed this idea up pretty well; it went something like this:
I have a doctor to tell me what to eat, a boss to tell me what to do, a teacher to tell me what to learn, and a psychologist to tell me what to think...what should I worry about?

In this society, people rarely step back from the "responsibilities" of their daily lives and ask, "What do I want?" or "What do I think?" They are practically spoon-fed everything by our society, exactly as the society wants it.

"A man" in my opinion, doesn't have to be male at all. In my view, you could replace "a man" with "a woman" and it really wouldn't matter. The point is, a person goes from "boy" to "man" or "girl" to "woman" (or various combinations of these terms ) by trying to take back control of their lives, for better or worse.

30 year old that lives on his own, is raising a family, stands up for what he believes in, protects his woman and his family from harm from others.
A man that dont belittle and bully others but protects and cares for others while maintaing a strong personlity. thats a man

Yah...just a boy thats went through puberty...your a person,*people* should do what they thinks right, dont follow old dark age *roles* in society of what a man/person should be or do or accomplish...