Originally posted by Gateway
Oh, you mean like how the Democrats promised to hold Bush et al. responsible for a misleading and illegal war, once in power.

Or how your Democratic congress said they would stop or reduce the war, or build-up as soon as they replaced the republican held congress.

Boy things have surely changed have they not, holding people accountable like we have for the last election sure got people what they wanted, would you say? 80% of the American public wants to end this war, yet we still are there.

Snap out of it Hoss, there is a fundamental foreign policy at State Department that transcends ALL party lines which crosses both sides of the isles. You are being duped into thinking that voting will change a foreign policy, but you fail to understand that both groups implicitly agree on said policy.

As for your question about what comes next? Well it doesn't take much of metal exercise to understand that further neglect of the public wishes will only encourage more apathy and distrust, ultimately justly leading to a revolt.

Originally posted by Hal9000
They didn't promise to impeach if they were given the majority. Pelosi said even before the midterms that impeachment was off the table. There were many worried that if we gave them the majority, that is what would happen. I agree they should be impeached so lets vote out anyone who did not support t.

They did promise to cut funding, but did not have enough of a majority to override the ones that supported it because it was "unpatriotic" not to support the troops. Not that I agree, but that is what happened.

You are expecting too much from a congress that barely has a majority to turn this country around in less than two years. They need more seats and more time. How can we give that to them? By voting.

If it is some other entity controlling things and not the politicians, then how will not voting for the politicians help?

You mean "anger and distrust" right? Apathy is what you seem to be complaining about, whom most of us call those that don't vote.

Originally posted by sos37
Something to think about: I'm of the belief that if you abstain from voting in an election, you also forfeit the right to complain about the results of that election no matter how badly you are affected.

Originally posted by Gateway
Holding people responsible, doesn't mean imprisoning Bush or Cheney, what it means is at the very least to investigate "What went wrong", who blew it, and who kept feeding disinformation about WMDs in Iraq, when certain intelligence agencies and other diplomats as well as UN Inspectors all claimed differently. If everyone admits that the truth was known from the outset, why this rush to war in the first place. And the fact that Pelosi, is not even considering this makes her an accomplice to the status quo., not even that for her and the rest of the Democrats except for kucinich will not even dare to mention the word "impeachment". Not one person has lost their bureaucratic job for sending 5,000 Americans to die, and who knows how many million Iraqis.

Look, if they got voted into office already why worry about the "unpatriotic" label, when clearly they were placed in that public office to abide to the will of the people and thus end this war one way or another.

Look, the Republican bums were kicked out for one reason and the Democrats were placed in office to end this war, not to fix some internal domestic policy issue that requires further debate like extending medicare. For two years they'd had a opportunity to put pressure on Bush to at the very least give the American people a timetable for withdrawal. And that's just it, doesn't this mean anything to you? Both again BOTH PARTIES think even giving us a timetable is unacceptable. What can you say when the American people, and even the puppet regime in Iraq is calling for timetables, but our leaders refuse to provide any. If that isn't contempt for the American people's will, then I don't know what is. This is a slippery slope.

I'm not a conspiricist, having said that, I do believe this country is run by a belief that "What's good for the American Corporation is good for America". Meaning that why would we ever go against, the wishes of a corporation when surely they employ thousands of Americans. Thus if we hurt our corporations, then we hurt the American people. Which is a false concept and flies in the face of our founding fathers and constitution that proclaimed this nation to belong to its people not its merchant class. Not to mention that this mercantilism sentiment flies in the face of Capitalism and free Commerce. If Bear Sterns goes bankrupt, who the hell cares? If we believe in Capitalism then some businesses will fail others will succeed. Using taxpayer money to subsidize corporation is corporatism bordering on socialism, if not blatant fascism.

What is apathy if not the disillusionment that your vote will make any difference, ie change. On election day some people will decide to stay home to pick their nose, perhaps not because they are lazy, but because the act of picking their noses makes more of a difference in their life than voting for some guy who will keep the status quo

Originally posted by Gateway

Originally posted by sos37
Something to think about: I'm of the belief that if you abstain from voting in an election, you also forfeit the right to complain about the results of that election no matter how badly you are affected.

To the contrary, if you choose not to vote your are saying that neither candidate speaks for you. On the other hand, those that voted for Bush and will continue to be stupid enough to vote for a warmonger like Mcain and or a socialist like Obama do not have a right to complain if their sons and daughters are drafted into another war, or if we continue to have financial bubbles along with the ensuing depressions that these so-called FED supporters give us.

In other words, you guys that want more WAR, more MORE GOVERNMENT go ahead be my guest and vote for the two shills that will be more than happy to give that to you.

Originally posted by Hal9000
We do know what went wrong. We were mislead. Other than that I'm not sure what your getting at. Your not telling me anything I don't already know and agree with. They should be impeached and because congress did not, they should also be held accountable. Maybe I am missing your point.

I am just saying that was the excuse they used to support funding the troops, not that I agreed with it.

They did have a timetable in the last funding bill and Bush vetoed it. He promised to veto any bill that included a timetable.

Again, your preaching to the choir. You don't have to convince me of any of this.

If they would go out and vote maybe we wouldn't be in the shape we are in. Not only do all Americans need to vote, but they need to vote intelligently. Punching a whole in a card is better than shooting a hole in somebody.