A Word to the Third Party and Non Voters

reply to post by LLoyd45

Words can have more than one meaning as we have clearly seen in the last few months. I've been fooled myself many times over during the course of this presidential race.
Politicians are typically lawyers, and their language is not necessarily that of the common man. Though you may believe they said something, when you go back and carefully disect their statement into their component parts, you soon realize the language was very vague, and left plenty of room for later revision. It's very easy to misconstrue meanings and take things out of context nowadays..

I agree with what you said above. However, doesn't that really imply deception on the politicians' behalf?
At a minimum, I would think that it would mean that they don't really want you to know what they truly believe, but are leading you to believe something that is not their position. To me, that is reprehensible.

reply to post by jam321


im sorry, i may have phrased that wrong. im completely for every individuals right to vote, and i do believe everyone should have a fair chance in the election...but i really just dont think its possible for a 3rd party candidate to win unfortunately

reply to post by ledhead


No problem. I thought that might be the case. But I honestly feel that if there was ever a chance for a third party to win, now would be the moment. I'm willing to bet Jesse Ventura would win because not everybody is pleased with the other 2 parties. it would be most interesting if there was a strong candidate as third party. They wouldn't be able to ignore him or her.

Originally posted by Hal9000
Well coming from someone in Ohio where the 2004 presidential election was stolen, I will say that I now have more confidence in our voting system than before. The reaction from the last presidential election was a higher price to pay than "they" imagined. Ohio has been traditionally a republican state for a long time, but in 2006 because of what happened, almost every local republican lost in the election, including republican Secretary of State, who was responsible for the distribution of the new voting machines. He ran for governor and only got 30% of the vote. This showed me that we still have a voice. This radical shift would not have happened if "they" controlled it all.

The new democratic Secretary of State, has recalled all the touchscreen voting machines and they were replaced by paper ballot readers across the state. We now have more oversight in voting than ever before, and no one is going to be able to get away with anything. Of course not every state has solved all the voting problems, but I'm sure changes have been made to improve things.

That's odd. I live in Ohio and I voted on a touchscreen not more than three months ago. They do print out a paper ballot...more of a cash register tape, really....that you can read through a window before it goes onto the roll. But, its not chad time here anymore.

I always go vote. Sometimes there are people or issues I want to vote for. Sometimes there are only those I want to vote against. But, if you believe in a conspiracy of any sort, then sitting out is simply admitting that you've been beaten. Just my opinion, of course.

I'm a one issue voter. 2nd amendment. That's the one that secures all other rights. With that in mind, I'm voting for the old boring guy this time. One change I definitely don't want is my gun rights eroded away.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Well written BH I see your logic, however I feel I'm doing more politically by exchanging thoughts/ideas here on ATS than I would by penciling in "option A or option B" on a ballot. I wrote this in the other thread, and I'll share my 1/2 ass logic (in this thread) as to why I won't be voting in November.

The reason I won't be voting in November is because I really don't believe in the current two-party system. I think this country has become a place where people want money, power, love, and anything else which is considered by the average citizen to make one feel very good. Rational thought and theory seem to be non-existant in many circles. I.e... my mom and dad always voted republican so that's how I vote. The flip-side of that are super liberal types who grew up in a republican household. Usually some other underlying issue causes them to be angry with one more of the parents so retaliate by going polar opposite on the political spectrum (from their parents/guardians). Or even scarier are people who won't vote for someone based off their skin color, gender, religious values etc.

Given the vast amount of people who formulate decisions based on what I perceive to be nonsense and the fact that I'm one in 100 million people (voters), I find it pointless to pencil in "option A or option B." I believe people do that to make themselves "feel good" about exercising their perceived freedom. But that doesn't mean I don't like political discussions and hearing other peoples beliefs and concerns.

Believe me... I live in Washington State which will definitely going to Obama so it wouldn't matter how I voted. If anything I might jump back on the democracy bandwagon to help elect local leaders who would have more impact on my everyday life.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Rather pessimistic this morning, aren't you?

.

Actually, I think she's being rather too optimistic. Five percent is far too high, in my opinion.

I still have to read the entirety of this thread, but a few quick points to my friend BH.

Who are "they"?

Just curious, because I've never quite believed in some hidden cabal sitting at the top pulling ALL of the strings. I've always seen it as just a substantial helping of corrupt (and for the most part, decentralized) interests cheating and stealing their way through existence...but maybe that's for another thread...

With regard to your principle point concerning the 5%... That too is part of the self-delusion you describe, and I'll tell you why.

We have utterly failed in our responsibility to hold accountable those who have done wrong. That is evident in our politics...and in our economics.

A democracy without accountability is a DEAD SYSTEM.

Neither candidate will matter because neither will hold the principals of the past accountable for the mess we are in. If anything is to change, the number one issue can NOT be what we do in Iraq moving forward....or the debate about environmental or energy policy...or the causes and proper response to the economic slowdown...

THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE NEEDS TO BE ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY! Without it, our future has no real chance.

Who would have believed impeachment or even simple investigation would be off the table for the opposing party?

Who would have believed NO consequence for the explicit contempt of Congress or the courts?

Who would have believed an Attorney General would advance the position that not all violations of the law are crimes?

We are no longer a nation of laws. The mental patients run the asylum, and most of us are either too unaware or remain blissfully complacent on the sidelines eating our popcorn and believing that all of this will eventually fix itself.

We have surpassed the worst of those qualities associated with the term, "Banana Republic".

FRAUD, WASTE & ABUSE, I'm afraid, is now the American Way.

Yes...5% is far too optimistic in my opinion.... :shk:

Good luck everyone.

Oh, and nice post BH.

EDIT:

For an economic example:



...and just one of the political examples:



[edit on 22-8-2008 by loam]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


BH, I posted this on another thread.

Whether or not to vote in the presidential elections is a hard choice when one is not moved by either candidate.

Not voting or voting "blank" is unrewarding and makes a minimal statement at best, especially when half the country doesn't bother to show up at all.

I have found that many people have their priorities upside down.
We pay the most attention to the elections that affect us the least, and the least attention to the ones that affect us the most.

Personally, I try to find out the most about my local candidates. It's the local elections that impact our daily lives the most.



[edit on 8/22/2008 by schrodingers dog]

People, get out and vote. Your vote is not wasted. Just get out and vote, whether it be for McCain, Obama, Paul, Clinton or whomever, just get out and vote.

BH, you came off a little weak in this and maybe today you're not feeling like your typical self. If you love or like Obama then vote for him. ITS YOUR RIGHT.

justamomma, the first time I saw you post was awhile back and it was in an Obama/Mccain thread and you were claiming to be undecided or sitting on the fence. BullCrap, you know you like Mccain so I didn't see the point of you lying. You like the man so just vote for him.

What I can't stand is the way the McCain folks are attacking Obama on nonsense rather than his policies. Every day I come on this site there is something new attacking Obama. I applauded Obama and wanted him to win because he kept his cool and did not go down to that level and rather chose to debate on Policies. Recently he too has gone on this Attack. I can only assume its like being beaten up by a bully everyday and can't take it anymore. I admit, I wanted him to fight back but now that I see where this is going I change my mind.

Why are the people support McCain so extreme, you make it out as if Obama would be the worst thing to happen to America without giving him a chance. Yet, you want to give Bush his third term.

Why are the people supporting Obama so blind. He has faults too, He should have left that church, he is too inexperienced, he is full of fancy speeches and is doing too much too fast.

Wasting a vote, HELL NO. Third Party should vote with there Heart. Man I wish Ron Paul was the Republican Nominee but to you Mccainiacs out there your party is the reason why he's not there or for that matter even allowed to be at the convention.

Vote whoever you please and whoever you think will make a change.

I for one would like to vote for Ron Paul but he's not on the ballot and I refuse to write anyone in. So with that said,

Yes, Yes I want a change. Obama said he will offer a change and I will grab on to that 1% chance that he might be telling the truth.

Why, Because I don't like wars, McCain is a bully and I don't want a bully running the country, McCain supports Bush almost 100% so they are the same.

And finally this is the first time there's a chance that there could be an African American President and one that is respected by the rest of the World. We have had our fair share of White President, Give the Brotha a chance (kidding). Lets see some change in Washington that is out of the Norm. He would be the first Black President and that's a change to start with.

Ps. I believe that there is one (Among others) who will rise and sneak his way into power and once he's there he will turn against the corrupted and save America from the pit we are in. He/She will need our help and when we see such a person this is when our vote really really really counts. Ron Paul could have been that person but he needs to work on his stealth ability a little more. I'm not saying Obama is that person but I'm saying he could be

RIP. John Kennedy

Cheers and May God Bless America.

[edit on 22-8-2008 by walkinghomer]

Originally posted by walkinghomer
justamomma, the first time I saw you post was awhile back and it was in an Obama/Mccain thread and you were claiming to be undecided or sitting on the fench. BullCrap, you know you like Mccain so I didn't see the point of you lying. You like the man so just vote for him.

Yes I am getting sick and tired of "independent" third party "ron paul" fakers. They complain about the two system but will be verymuch to one side.

Too many people are making excuses to sound impartial.

The primary issue that i examine first and foremost in a candidate is their stance on the second amendment in the BIll of Rights.
Republicans tend to be pro gun and democrats anti gun. Look at the national platform for each of these parties.
The second amendment in the Bill of Rights is the one and only single right the guarantees the rest of the rights in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Religion, speech, due process, search and seizure, stationing of troops, speedy trial, just punishment and so forth.
The Bushes might be a lot of things, but they are pro gun.
Our biggest allies in WWi and WWII were Canada, Britian and Australia.
The powers that be have taken away the guns in Australia, Britian and Canada. That leaves basically the citizens of the USA armed. The armed citizen is a formidable force. For two reasons: external threats and internal tyranny. If you think the democratic party does not wish to disarm the citizens of USA then do some research.
When Clinton took office he increased the cost of an FFL from ten dollars a year to six hundred.
When Bust got in office his Attorney General Ashcroft proclaimed that the second amendment applied to the individual citizen. Plus we have see the right to carry concealed weapons laws and castle doctrine laws being passed in a majority of states during Republican terms in office.
The US flag was created following the blood sweat and tears of persons who actually laid down their life for the freedoms and liberty in USA.
Preceeding the Revolutionary war and up to and including today.
Just on that single issue yes your vote counts and is important.
I wish Ron Paul was running in place of John McCain but I will not vote for him and split Republican votes away from McCain.