Your vote does not count! I don't see why people think this. I doubt your vote even goes through the system and gets counted...

As Propaghandi says "If you're dumb enough to vote, you're F###### dumb enough to believe them."

In principle, our votes represent our 'voice'.

The electoral college removed our voice long ago.

Next time you are at the ballot box, ask how you can 'write in a vote'. The machine will not answer. Pick what was put on the list or be silent.

Some hold to the ideology that voting is an act of violence. The machines will keep your votes where the establishment wants them to be.

I am still going to vote.

There are two realities that even the most entrenched conspiracy, if true, must face. First, people get old and die, including the 'elites', and second, their lust for power and control will make them turn against each other eventually.

Eventually, someone from within could pleasantly surprise us all, (and metaphorically send the elite machinery into a nose dive). Don't look for it from any of the cookie-cutter Hollywood politicians we've been sold as the heroic leader we have all been waiting for. That's just window dressing. It will be someone from within. Someone who, hopefully, will grow tired of the hubris and presumption that self-determination is inferior to submission to elite governance.



[edit on 28-7-2008 by Maxmars]

Originally posted by LLoyd45
Every vote counts

I couldn't disagree more, and I believe this would be an outstanding topic for debate. Unfortunately, I do not have the tenacity to be part of such a feat within the confines of ATS-style debate, but would love to see it debated nonetheless.

Originally posted by Quazga
Actually I saw Bush saying these things as well, but he was never convincing to me.

I didn't believe him, either, but after 9/11, When he stood among the rubble and yelled in that guy's ear with the megaphone, I got a glimpse of what people saw in him. I could almost believe he was sincere.

But the point I want to make about this is that just because Bush was lying about these things doesn't necessarily mean that Obama is lying, too. He could be, absolutely, but I'm not basing anything about Obama on Bush.

Although I know you believe voting doesn't help. But I can't see how you think it would hurt.

I think I'm beginning to understand how some think it would hurt. I don't agree with it, but I understand. If we vote for one of their two choices, that sends a message to them that we are still being "fooled" by their evil scheme. It's a message of compliance. If we refuse to vote, at least we aren't complying with the system.

Is that anywhere close to right, Republic?

Nice to hear from you, so here's what I think:

I will be voting because I can't say for certain that it is totally rigged. Even if it is and I vote there is also a chance that it could be uncovered.

However, my last ditch efforts at civil change are wearing rather thin.

At what point do we put thoughts into action.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
However, my last ditch efforts at civil change are wearing rather thin.
At what point do we put thoughts into action.

Well now that is the question, isn't it?

Personally, I've not reached that point yet, mostly because of the rampant apathy amongst people who should be involved in the process, but aren't. If, and I emphasize "if", a large majority are involved in the process and the results are found to indeed be predetermined, then I've reached my point of no return. ...and it's time to tear it down and rebuild.

So what are all of you doing to change things? Or maybe a better question is what would you do to change things? I'm seeing here, and in other places lots of people saying there are problems, big ones, bigger ones, and catastrophic ones... They're not entirely mistaken, there are problems, both large and small. What I'm not seeing, or hearing, is solutions, or attempts at solutions.

I'm as guilty of that as anyone...I'm ashamed to say. Let's hear some. I'll start.

Political corruption in all facets of the political arena, ok solution number one: Term limits, two terms maximum. Constitutional amendment if neccessary, and it might be; to make it stick.

First off i will be writing in Ron Paul whether its rigged or not. At least I can sleep at night. Second you either vote or you grab a gun. If you are that unconfident in our system then do one or the other. I feel our government is a puppet to the bankers but I still hold out a sliver of hope that certain people can make a difference but the dems and repubs for sure cannot.

Although the fix is probably "in", and TV media has rallied around one guy, almost pretending that the other does not exist (which also happened to Paul), there is a word that can add, or take away SOME of the wind, from the winner's sails:

The word is mandate:
And in Presidential elections, it usually means that the candidate has received either over 50 percent, or has won by a large margin. (Real votes, as opposed to those from the Electoral College).

It is EXTREMELY important, that this terminology not be used at all for either candidate this Season ( except to say that a mandate was not achieved).

This is why I will vote 3rd party. No mandate.

It may not mean much, but in the years that follow, it cannot, and will not be used by Mainstream Media to describe the winner. It's a psychological boost that neither of the two deserve.