Do we really want to elect a Communist?

[

As for 'selling out' this decade - The UK has been evolving social policys since the 1800's when the US was still wetting itself, metaphorically speaking.

"Evolving social policies" - are these the same ones that put you in the same war as the US?

Your right, the US does not view socialism the way the rest of the world does. We don't need the government to coddle us. We take care of ourselves just fine. The majority of Americans have health coverage and there are clinics available to those who don't. We do not have the sick and the poor wandering all over the streets the way some would like you to imagine.

reply to post by slicobacon


DONT include me in the 'same war as the US' bull****. I was and still am against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Unfortunately we had a US lapdog Tony Blurrr as a PM which incidently I never voted for and when asked by the US to jump, he replied ''how high''.

The LOT we have in office right now are just as bad as your lot that are in office. The sooner they leave the better .... for everyone.

Originally posted by Wotan
Now you will probably hate me for saying this but ..........

THe US seems to live in the past, especially the ''this is what we were founded on''. Move on, it was a long time ago, things evolve. Until you can get rid of that baggage the US will be stuck up its own arse.

Not to be argumentative Wotan, but if America is living in the past, then I'm proud to be a relic. Our approach to the World around us is what made us a superpower. Nobody owes anyone a free ride in this life. If you want something you should be willing to work for it or at least make some contribution towards obtaining it.

I don't have much personally, but everything I do own, I bought and paid for with the sweat of my own brow. Nobody gave me anything.

WW2 was a bloody long time ago - We in the UK have moved on. Its totally irrelevant nowadays. Jeez, we dont go on about the battle of waterloo, trafalgar etc etc.

WWII was a long time ago, but it was a critical turning point in history. Most of Europe would be speaking German now if we Americans hadn't thrown our lot in to stave off the Axis forces.

When has North Korea or Iran ever been a threat to the US?

I don't perceive them as a real threat, but it never hurts to remain vigilant against those who may wish to do you harm. Those who do not learn from the past are certain to repeat it..

For a nation that has the amount of wealth the US has, it is very selfish with it. Dont you care about your own citizens? It doesnt look like it from this side of the pond.

We care about our people, but we also expect individuals to try to help themselves out as well. Theirs a difference between wanting a 'handout" and asking for "a hand".

To me, the US is a third World Country with money.

I have to say, you couldn't be further from the truth. If we were so bad, we wouldn't have thousands of foreigner immigrating to our country every year. I do think it's time we closed our borders though, and took care of ourselves.

[edit on 28-7-2008 by LLoyd45]

Well, Communism (whether you actually meant Socialism or not) seemed to have worked out pretty well for China. Seems they're holding the Olympics this year. Oh, not to mention, they seem to OWN the U.S. economy.

Maybe we should take a hint.

Remember when Russia and China were the "enemies"? And Communism was an evil wicked thing? I do. Thank God that's been transfered over to Iran and North Korea. LOL. But, alas ... China is our friend. It seems we now could care less about whether or not they're Communist.

So, what's the big deal. Every politician in the world wants you to believe that this country is Democratic. When in actuality, we were founded as a Republic. But, that would mean the power belongs in the hands of the people. They couldn't have that ... so, we're referred to in every use (even using the word when "spreading Democracy" to Iraq/Afghanistan) as a Democratic country.

We were never meant to be a Democracy.

"Hence it is that democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths... A republic, by which I mean a government in which a scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking."

(James Madison, Federalist Papers, the McClean Edition, Federalist Paper #10, page 81, 1788)

[edit on 28-7-2008 by tyranny22]

reply to post by Cthulwho


Oh My...

Capitalism created the need for welfare? There is no need for welfare with Socialsim? What color is the sky in your world?

Socialism IS welfare.

Welfare is..."I am entitled to (enter your desire.)"

Capitalism is "I want it so I will earn it or create it."

If you are entitled to something then you will not work for it. That is why Socialist countries always have and always will be a second tier nation, living off the crumbs of others.

reply to post by mirador


But the numbers do not really tell much of the story. Where I live, Long Island, New York, there isn't much problems, on the contrary, prosperity is rampant and eaven the housing prices have gone up...but in the Southern states...
I have been to New Orleans, before the hurricane, and traveled a bit up the Mississippi River to Baton Rouge, to visit someone we all know, and in some places I though I was some in a Third World Country. That as been my only "southern" experience, and I loved it, but if the South is like that I would not want to live there...

Just goes to show, in the same country you can have extreme wealth and poverty (depending on the places or regions you visit).
Since the hurricane I am told things are far worst.

reply to post by Wotan


He who does not learn from the past will be condemned to repeat it. Moved on indeed. No doubt why you are having the "politically correct" problems you are having now. Don't count on us to save your bacon this time. Ungrateful louts.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Wotan

 

He who does not learn from the past will be condemned to repeat it. Moved on indeed. No doubt why you are having the "politically correct" problems you are having now. Don't count on us to save your bacon this time. Ungrateful louts.

Then why do you keep making the same mistakes? hmmm.

spoilt brats.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
As for socialism, yes, most Americans despise it. This country was founded on the principles of working hard to get ahead, not working hard so that someone who doesn't work hard, can benefit from your work.

If that is your defination of socialism, then you have no clue at all as to what it means... there are many forms of socialism, and most of the countries that practice it (like most of Europe) are not only parlimentary democracies but capitalist societies as well.

Besides all of that this is a pathetic piece of fear mongering and nothing more.

The owners of this country are not about to allow anyone to get elected in this country who would jeprodize their interests... the very fact that he has been allowed to get this far proves my point. If he was as much of a threat as you seem to believe, he wouldn't have been allowed to win the primaries... something would have happened to shoot him down just like the hoopla over Howard Dean's scream... a non issue if there ever was one but because the press (was instructed to) make a big deal out of it, it effectively killed his campaign.

Don't believe me look at Obama's doaner list... all those Wall Street firms would not be giving money to a communist.

This thread is knee jerk fear mongering at its worst.

Hey, John McCain LIVED with communists for 5 years! Wonder how much rubbed off on him?

I just laugh when i think of all the religious in the US chanting Jesus name but when it comes to share a bit of that paycheck so everyone has something to eat its a big F off.
And in Europe there are no such things as free rides or handouts. there are benefits for the poor but that is barely to keep them off the street and with a meal, also there are aids for people with lower wages to be able to pay their rent every month. Its help not handout.

Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND
I think we saw that in the former Yugoslavia, and look where that got them - they where a poor Third World country where nobody worked hard or produced anything of quality, because there was no incentive for it...

Sry but again you are using comparisons that don't fit.

Yugoslavia? Don't make me laugh. You are confusing cultural problems with political. You ever been southern Europe? They are lazy by nature, not politics. They were also under control of the Soviets, if they controlled this country I'd be lazy to.

The incentive under true socialism (libertarian) is more direct than in capitalism. If your work had a direct effect on the money you make, wouldn't you work harder? Most people under capitalism either work for very little pay, or don't work at all, because capitalism requires a poor cheap labour pool, someone has to do the dirty work right?

You can't compare true socialism with any other country because it has yet to happen in any country, except Spain during the 1936 revolution when the workers organised and profited without government along libertarian socialist (anarchist) ways for a couple of years. Until the fascists took over with help from Italy, Germany, the UK and other countries.

People are still chasing carrots hoping for success that most don't find. When all along you could have a system where your labour actually directly benefits you and your community.

Community, have you all forgotten what that means?

I think that Obama has some Socialist leanings, but to be honest so do I.

Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND
You have the right to your opinion, mine differs...

That's not opinion it's the truth. Go do some reading or something...

Socialism does not mean government or state ownership. It does not mean a closed party-run system without democratic rights. Those things are the very opposite of socialism.

"Socialism," as the American Socialist Daniel De Leon defined it, "is that social system under which the necessaries of production are owned, controlled and administered by the people, for the people, and under which, accordingly, the cause of political and economic despotism having been abolished, class rule is at end. That is socialism, nothing short of that." And we might add, nothing more than that!

Source

Originally posted by Wotan
For some reason that i can never fathom, the US has this aversion to socialist principles.

Because socialism is unconstitutional! Socialism attempts to provide the federal government powers that the U.S. Constitution left to the individual or to the state. Socialism attempts to lay on the shoulders of the people the responsibilities that belong solely to the individual. It promotes and garners a growing sense of irresponsibility. The only purpose of socialism to gain more power for government; lest the people (and the individual) become to powerful. Socialism is all about control and enslavement of the people and the individual by the deciders at the top of the totem pole. And you were right about the U.S. being the exception in the word. Allowing socialism in the United States of America would destroy us and the values under which we were founded!

Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND
Of course, only you know what "Socialism" is. And all the world leaders that have proclaimed they where Socialists where just morons who didn't have the smallest notions about politics.

You are just being naive. Governments LIE to control you.

Socialist government is an oxymoron. A good example was the Nazi's who called their party National Socialist, socialist it was not. Governments will do anything, and call themselves anything, in order to control the population.

Please do some reading...Here it is again case you missed it that last dozen or so times...

Socialism does not mean government or state ownership. It does not mean a closed party-run system without democratic rights. Those things are the very opposite of socialism.

"Socialism," as the American Socialist Daniel De Leon defined it, "is that social system under which the necessaries of production are owned, controlled and administered by the people, for the people, and under which, accordingly, the cause of political and economic despotism having been abolished, class rule is at end. That is socialism, nothing short of that." And we might add, nothing more than that!

Remember: If it does not fit this description, it is not socialism—no matter who says different. Those who claim that socialism existed and failed in places like Russia and China simply do not know the facts.

Source

You simply do not know the facts...

[edit on 28/7/2008 by ANOK]

Originally posted by exfiler
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill.

Winston Churchill was part of the ruling elite, and supported Italian fascism, so is it no wonder he said that?

Winston Churchill wrote in 1927 that "If I had been an Italian I am sure I would have been entirely with you" and "don the Fascist black shirt." As late as 1940, Churchill was still describing Mussolini as "a great man."

Source

Please Choose one!:

1) Socialist Communist

or

2) Fascist Dictatorship

Personally I would prefer 1 please.

just say nooooo to McBush.