Do we really want to elect a Communist?, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 11 times

reply posted on 27-7-2008 @ 10:11 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by Wotan

If the US and UK didnt go into Iraq in the first place, they wouldnt be getting killed by Iranian supplied weapons now. It was about oil and nothing else.

Wow, that's like saying that if we didn't oppose Hitler, our soldiers wouldn't have been killed. You and Chamberlain certainly do have a lot in common.

It was about oil and nothing else.

If that were true, why is no oil flowing from Iraq into the US, and why is oil $125 a barrel if you were correct?

There is NO country threatening the UK or the US with an invasion as far as I know.

I guess you're not familiar with 9/11. I lost a relative in that invasion.

Some of you yanks ought to get out more and leave your country and visit others instead of learning about the world from the internet.

I have spent a significant amount of time in other countries. Don't make comments to people that you don't know the least bit about.

I do not let what happened in WW2 go lightly, all i am saying is that we do not dwell on what has happened in the distant past. Its over, let it go. We cannot change the past.

Those that fail to learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat
them.

There is NO country threatening the UK or the US with an invasion as far as I know.

I guess you aren't familiar with the 20,000,000 illegal aliens from Mexico that have invaded our borders, and wreaking havoc on our society, or the crimes that those illegals have committed. The Mexican government even prints a guide for those border hoppers, on how to get across, and how to get benefits from the US.

reply posted on 27-7-2008 @ 10:15 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by dgtempe

No one wants to kill us but THIS CURRENT GOVERNMENT-

Did YOU lose a relative in 9/11?

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 12:35 AM by slicobacon

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

I guess Wotan has never experienced freedom, ProfEmeritus. Americans DO NOT want to be socialist! Period. We don't need a government taking care of us like puppies in a kennel. A third world country with money? Your a joke. I have spent quite some time in England and Scotland - Scots are much nicer by the way, and there is no way you will ever convince me the Brits are better off than us third world Americans. London feels like a minimum security prison with all the frickin cameras watching everyone's every move. Socialism or communism is fine for those of you who can't handle freedom and the responsibility that comes with it. I rely on my government for nothing- and thats the way most of us Americans want it. _javascript:icon('

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reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 12:44 AM by TXMACHINEGUNDLR

Look, despite what the media want's you to think....Obama has a snowballs chance in hell of winning. Truthfully one is because he is half black. STRIKE 1. Second is his name sounds and is Muslim...STRIKE 2....Last he is too far to the left. The people who run this country will not let him win. America is that simple, and that is why I love my country.

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 12:48 AM by slicobacon

reply to post by TXMACHINEGUNDLR

I agree with you 100%! The sad part is that the media is making some people feel his election is a foregone conclusion. People are forgetting about the silent majority.

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 12:56 AM by mattguy404

reply to post by slicobacon

I guess Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac can't handle 'Freedom' either. A big government bailout, why that sounds like socialism.

Run for the hills!

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 01:07 AM by AgnosticX

Seriously, i really don't see to much of a difference nowadays between the ever so hated communism and what america is already becoming under king bush. The way i see things is, america is going on the path to having all the worse things about communism and capitalism rolled into one. With the patriot act and all these others "terror" laws being passed taking away americans rights, and american government time and time again showing that it only cares about the most important (I.E. rich) people, the average guy doesn't really have a chance. My opinion is it doesn't matter which of these two guys go into office america is well on its way to being royally F'd up.

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 01:18 AM by jamie83

Originally posted by Wotan For some reason that i can never fathom, the US has this aversion to socialist principles.

[pointing to my head]

Because THIS works.

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 01:33 AM by ANOK

Originally posted by slicobacon
I guess Wotan has never experienced freedom, ProfEmeritus. Americans DO NOT want to be socialist! Period. We don't need a government taking care of us like puppies in a kennel.

Once again that is not socialism. Socialism doesn't require a government at all, because socialism puts control in the hands of the workers, rather than an authority that is not freely elected.

You haven't tasted freedom either mate. Try living your life outside the norms of what we're conditioned to except.

The UK is NOT socialist, so why use that as a comparison? The UK is fast becoming a totalitarian country, but don't be fooled into thinking the US is any more free just because you don't see CCTV everywhere.
You only think you're free because the 'powers that be' keep telling you that.

Don't confuse the term liberal with socialism, liberalism is not a political doctrine and both the left and right can be liberal, or conservative.

What you have in the US, and UK, is economic fascism, the control of the population by corporations, AKA corporatism. Italy and Germany adopted corporatism in the 20's, and was highly regarded by many in the US. So the US adopted fascism in the 30's also, except they called it 'planned capitalism'.

Mussolini will be a great thing not only for Italy but for all of us if he succeeds. It is his inspiration, his determination, his constant toil that has literally rejuvenated Italy . . .U.S. Congressman Sol Bloom, Chairman of the House Foreign Relations Committee 1926

Mussolini is continuing the task of Thomas Jefferson. Ezra Pound, US modernist

Fascism was very popular in the 20's and 30's but of course after WWII the word 'fascist' became a taboo, so the name changed, but the system continues.

If classical liberalism spells individualism, fascism spells government. Musllini

Under fascism the government is master, not the servant of the people. Look around you, what do you see?

Your constitution was written by liberals, but over the years fascist influenced government reforms have destroyed your rights and you are falling for it because you're too lazy to find out the real truth.

Socialists want control over their own lives, not some bureaucratic government institution dictating policy.

Only you know what you want, there is no authority but yourself.

[edit on 28/7/2008 by ANOK]

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 01:43 AM by chise61

reply to post by Wotan

Why does it bother you so much that Americans have an aversion to socialism ? Does it effect you personally ? The fact that you perfer socialism doesn't effect me personally. IMO socialism is nothing but a transitional stage between capitalism and communism, and i as an American want no part of it. I'll stick with our republic and our capitalistic society and you can stick with your socialism and monarchy and we'll both be happy.

What does bother me is the fact that you think you have the right to tell us to forget what our country was founded on and to move on, move forward, while you sit in a country that still has a "blueblood" sitting on a throne looking down her nose at the peasants. If that's your idea of socialism, you can keep it.

I choose to remember what our country was founded on and honor the brave people that fought to get out from under the rule of a tyrant so that we could have this great nation. We may have our problems, what country doesn't, but there are those of us that just don't want to see our country sold out from under us. Those that want socialism can move to a socialistic country, because the REAL Americans don't want anything to do with it !

I don't care for Obama's politics, his socialistic views, his circle of friends, his job performance as senator, his desire to disarm us, and i damn sure don't trust his campaign promise of "change". There was another man that ran on the "change" agenda not so long ago, but someone else can talk about that better than i can.

backtoamerica.org... -vs-republic-the-choice-before-us/

You need not read the whole page to see what i'm talking about if you choose to, just the editorial.

[edited to add]

Sorry i just checked the link and it doesn't seem to go straight to the page i was trying to link to, when the page comes up, just click on the blog tab and it'll take you to the right page.

[edit on 28/7/08 by chise61]

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 01:44 AM by NorthWolfe CND

Originally posted by Wotan
I think you may be confusing communist with socialism. As far as I can see most of what he is proposing, the rest of the western world have already. You have to realise that the US style of living is not the norm, it is the exception. For some reason that i can never fathom, the US has this aversion to socialist principles.

Same thing, different spelling. The only difference is that communists are willing to overthrow the governments, by any means possible, while the socialists, "Old" Labor to you, prefer a gradual, parliamentary way of reaching their goals: A Classless Socialist Society.

What I find strange is that, you being from the UK, defend these principles. "Old" Labor, and their puppet Trade Unions, destroyed the British Economy, and Industry. The little industry you have left are all subsidiaries of foreign countries or foreign investment. I hope I don't have to remind you of the systematic destruction of the British Auto Industries, of the two figure unemployment rate Briton had, of the almost third world statistics in Scotland, Wales and so on...

It took Thatcher to save what was left of the UK and to regain some economical and political pride. Even "New Labor" has, in their words, "shelved socialism and trade unionism".

[edit on 28-7-2008 by NorthWolfe CND]

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 01:59 AM by solo1

Originally posted by Cthulwho
reply to post by jerico65

It's actually the capitalist system which creates the need for welfare. In a true socialist economy there is no need for welfare. Take a look at the current housing crisis, it's capitalism that allowed this to happen, and now many people (and some companies) require the help of welfare.

Well yes capitalists made this happen not capitalism

Capitalism is not bad it is the greedy that turn Capitalism into Fascism or canibal capitalism that is bad
it is the greedy and evil people that killed American capitalism
money has bought every congressman save a few principled men in America

America is moving to socialism under Obama this is my feeling

Scholars can debate this for ever, the people want social programs and safty nets
I am confident most Americans will vote for democratic socialism and the North American Union as a way forward for Americans. based on the Canadian system ( English system)

Capitalism has been beaten by the greedy that have fed from the trough until the country's economy had it's back broken.

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 02:00 AM by NorthWolfe CND

reply to post by Wotan

It is you who is living in the past, or are you forgetting what happened in every Socialist/Communist society, including your own country...

As for the USA being a third world country, what does that make you, fifth word? All of the economic, and social, indicators of the USA are far better then those of the UK...

As for wars, you are British and dare to talk to anybody about wars? What have you been smoking? UK, the most bellicose state in modern history whats to give others lessons on peace???

At least most of USA wealth was earned threw hard work, every bit of wealth the UK ever had was earned throw pillage, plunder and drug trade...

P.S.
I'm Canadian, live most of the time in New York and Plymouth, and I love the UK as much as I love New England and Canada. Just can't believe what you are writing...that's all...no hard feelings, after all we have the same Queen...

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 02:02 AM by ANOK

reply to post by NorthWolfe CND

You have to realise 'old labour' was not really socialist. I fell for this in my younger days and supported state socialism, but state socialism is not true socialism as I have pointed out a couple of times in this thread.

Socialism being a step to communism is a Marxist idea, not all socialists are Marxists. I'm not a Marxist by any stretch. Marx had his own ideas of how to implement socialism/communism.

Libertarian Socialism is the only truly free system, workers control of the means of production without government interference on behalf of the wealthy. That is true socialism. But because the wealthy own the press, and your place of labour, they have a vested interest in demonising socialism and most people, being sheep, believe them.

Who is your leader, which is your flock.

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 02:09 AM by ANOK

Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND
At least most of USA wealth was earned threw hard work, every bit of wealth the UK ever had was earned throw pillage, plunder and drug trade...

LOL most of the wealth in the US was produced during the period of SLAVERY and your land was pillaged, and plundered from American Natives.

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 02:15 AM by NorthWolfe CND

reply to post by ANOK

I think we saw that in the former Yugoslavia, and look where that got them - they where a poor Third World country where nobody worked hard or produced anything of quality, because there was no incentive for it...

Socialism, like Marxism and Christianity all seem to have left out the most important element in their ideologies...HUMAN NATURE. Nobody works hard if he is going to be rewarded the same way as a person who doesn't, thus everybody just gets their pay check every month and work as slow and inefficiently as they can.

Even China, the last remaining bastion of Socialist Maoism, only grow due to their "special economic poles" (Capitalism, at it's worse), such as Macau, Hong Kong, Shanghai and so on...

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 02:30 AM by NorthWolfe CND

Originally posted by Cthulwho
reply to post by jerico65

It's actually the capitalist system which creates the need for welfare. In a true socialist economy there is no need for welfare. Take a look at the current housing crisis, it's capitalism that allowed this to happen, and now many people (and some companies) require the help of welfare.

And exactly is this "true socialist economy" to be found? Maybe on Mars or in your own brain...
It doesn't exist, never did and never will, because it is simply impossible for the Human race to find such a system tolerable...maybe when we are extinct and a new race of "vegetable like creatures" rules the world you will have your socialist paradise. Until the, guess you will have to work for a living.

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 02:32 AM by NorthWolfe CND

Originally posted by ANOK

Social services is not socialism.
Social engineering is not socialism.
Hitler was not a socialist (yes some people do think this).
Russia, not socialist (or communist either).
China, not socialist (or communist either).

You have the right to your opinion, mine differs...

reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 02:37 AM by NorthWolfe CND