The Questions U.F.O. skeptics can't answer, page 9

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 04:46 AM

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As always I feel compelled to point out that skepticism does not mean not believing or making assertions contrary to positives, i.e. stating negatives as facts (__________ do not exist, etc.) To be skeptical means to doubt, to question, and above all, to have an open mind. A skeptic can't make assertions without proof. A skeptic can say "I personally don't believe that _______ exist or that ________ occurs, however I do not know with certainty that they do or do not, and thus cannot state for a fact that they do or do not exist or occur." To say, "__________ do not exist" is not skeptical; it is pseudo-skeptical.

I have to add that 1) I don't like labels or pigeon holing people, and I like semantic games even less, but in this instance it's people labeling themselves something (skeptics) and then acting contrary to the definition of the word, and 2) that there's nothing inherently "wrong" with being a pseudo-skeptic; it just isn't the same as being a skeptic and should be called what it is.

Skepticism means to refrain from accepting or asserting facts without proof, including facts that state the nonexistence or nonoccurence of things or events. Since evidence isn't the same as definitive proof and because one cannot definitively prove a negative, a true skeptic cannot assert as a fact the belief that something does not exist or occur. A pseudo-skeptic can, however. I consider myself a skeptic. I don't know one way or another for certain whether these things occur or exist. I don't believe they do definitively, but I accept the possibility. There is insufficient proof either way for me. I have had my own unusual experiences however which make me wonder.

[edit on 7/27/2008 by AceWombat04]

atlasastro

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 04:58 AM

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Originally posted by polomontana
You say that you know or think that extra-terrestrial/extra-dimensional beings can't or don't exist, are you saying that the eyewitness to an event can't know these things either?

I think it would be fair to say that most skeptics base their view on the available evidence. In this case, maybe you should ask, why is their such a lack of conclusive evidence in regards to extra terrestrials/extra-dimensional beings?. Most reports of ET contact are eyewitness accounts backed with little other evidence.

Are you limiting another person's sphere of knowledge based on your pre-existing belief on these issues?

Are you asking people to base their beliefs on faith? The fact that one person may be limited in providing evidence supporting their belief should then not require another to be viewed as limited for simply needing more substantial material to help them accept what you believe.

Example: If a high ranking government official comes out and says he has first hand knowledge that these things exist, do you limit what he/she can know based on your pre-existing belief on these issues?

No. Once again it is up to the person making any claim to support it with evidence. What we know and accept is limited to what can be shown and proven, otherwise we must accept it in faith.

If a person you know to be credible comes to you and says they were visited by these beings and this person has never been known to make up stories, do you say these things could not have happened based on your personal belief about these issues? Are you saying that your friend couldn't know and experience these things based on what you believe?

Why is it that when we have credible scientific people offering alternative explanations for Alien Abductions, Alien Contact and Experiences they are ignored by those that believe in these experiences, yet when a person who is credible makes incredible claims that is not supported by anyother evidence, those that are skeptical are viewed as being limited or biased due to their own beliefs(which are based on what they observe and experience). Could we not reverse this scenario. When a credible person says to a person who believes in Aliens/ET/Extradimensional beings that they have had no experience with these therefor they do not exist, are not those who believe in ET etc limiting themselves in not accepting this as being true, even though the person that does not believe cannot prove conclusively that aliens etc do not exist.

If so, how is this logical? Are you saying that nobody can know about these things because you believe these things don't or can't exist?

Your whole arguement is illogical. Sorry. You seem to be argueing that those that are skeptical are limiting themselves to those that are making claims purely because those making claims have limited evidence to support their beliefs of Extra-alien, extra-dimensional beings existing.

If you are, then you are limiting others sphere of knowledge based on what you believe about these issues.

What sphere of knowledge, these are beliefs you are talking about. There is no overwhelming evidence supporting the existence of ET or extra-dimensional beings. This is where i believe the belief in aliens takes on a new and updated role of age old religious beliefs. As the majority of evidence comes from personal testimony and heresay and requires others to place their beliefs on these alone, not unlike spiritual and religious experiencesAlien Abduction and Contactee experience: A new religion?
This thread has many links and posts relating to your OP. Alien Abduction and contact groups as well as academic and university research groups looking at this topic and why some believe, and why others don't and explanations why.

flice

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 05:13 AM

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reply to post by Malevolent_Aliens

That's the typical lame believer excuse... you cannot compare something that we can't go see when we want to, to something like a country we could visit anytime we want.
It's two completely different scenarios. I'm gonna be blunt... I don't give a # if you were abducted, have "helped" abductees or what not BS. As long as you don't give tangible proof you just the next freaking wannabe UFO celeb, and I don't care if you are not doing this for fame... Everytime a believer like you opens her mouth and spills BS, God kills a kitten. And he will continue killing kittens till one of you guys come up with some real proof other than words.
Stop pestering the cause with idle statements and claims...

Here's some things I can do:

I can turn lead into gold
I have a unicorn in my secret underground cave.
I have telepathic abilities and am right now transmitting to Cheney to go take a dump in front of his house.

Sorry... but I can't prove any of it. I lost the receipe for gold, I lost the key to the cave, so the unicorn probably starved to death and as for the telepathic ability, it only works when I'm not rambling and ranting against unbased statements put into text.... that amounts to 99% of my time, so we have to be lucky to prove that.

Malevolent_Aliens

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 05:22 AM

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reply to post by flice

you cannot compare something that we can't go see when we want to, to something like a country we could visit anytime we want.
It's two completely different scenarios.

If you carefully review all that was written I was making a point not literally comparing one to another.

I'm gonna be blunt... I don't give a # if you were abducted, have "helped" abductees or what not BS. As long as you don't give tangible proof you just the next freaking wannabe UFO celeb.

Good for you, I really don’t care what you think and I’m sure your not the only one out there who feels that way. I have nothing to prove to you but I will never deny my experiences.

Everytime a believer like you opens her mouth and spills BS, God kills a kitten.

Do you believe in God? Who is God? What is God? Can you prove the existence of God?

Have a nice day!

AntisepticSkeptic

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 05:34 AM

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One question U.F.O skeptics can't answer:

Are E.T. believers this dumb?

Seriousy. How can you ask for proof about the existence of China? Are you THAT disconnected from reality?

Jeebus go see a doctor or something.

I would have had better luck talking to a wall.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by AntisepticSkeptic]

Lethil

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 05:41 AM

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Why is it that alien believers always assume non-believers or skeptics haven't looked at the evidence? that sounds a tad presumptious to me...anyway....id like to see this proof of aliens...and yet again i'll say a video of a ufo is not proof of aliens...

Malevolent_Aliens

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 05:44 AM

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Originally posted by AntisepticSkeptic
One question U.F.O skeptics can't answer:
Are U.F.O believers this dumb?
Seriousy. How can you ask for proof about the existence of China? Are you THAT disconnected from reality?
Jeebus go see a doctor or something.
I would have had better luck talking to a wall.

Mr. Tinman, clearly you haven't been following this thread if you go over it you will see I used China to make a point. (Analogy)

Talk about brainless, review what was said and figure it out.

"Follow the yellow brick road!
Follow the yellow brick road!
Follow Follow Follow Follow
Follow the yellow brick road!"

[edit on 27-7-2008 by Malevolent_Aliens]

atlasastro

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 05:44 AM
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I'll answer you menguard as you have posted this twice now.

Originally posted by menguard

What is time?
Time can be fast, slow, meaningless and significant. Fun or sad. It can mean a minute, or stretch an age. Internal time, external time. Maybe, though, it is really the time to just stay on topic.

When does a wave of gravity stop in motion?
When you stop assuming that it travels in waves.

At what point did time and space begin?
1. When it was created or 2. The universe is eternal and space and time have always existed. Me persoanlly, i am taking 1.

Why are we here?
To find the best possible answer to that question.

Who created you?
My mother and my father.

How can time not exist?
From a personal perspective, when I cease to exist. Or from an larger existential perspective, when the creator of time decides it is no longer needed as an aspect of existence?

Why are we alien to ourselves?
Why do you assume we are? This is too ambiguous. I certainly feel terrestrial to myself.

Why does the ufology field stop at flying crafts?
I thought it stood for Unidentified flying objects.

Why is everything in the field of obscurity based on falsified truths?
I am unaware of the field of obscurity. Care to point out a few examples. As obscurity implies a level of unknowable characteristics, motives or reason and thus the way it is validated may be limited to say, fasified truths.

Why do agencies make false claims and cover them up with top secret files?
Why do people lie. Make false claims and cover them up by selling books about aliens, top secret papers and govt. conspiracies?

[quote]Who authorises information leaks through media conception? Those that benefit from the leak.

[quote]Why does the real source of man's potential stop at a routine based conclusion?Is this your conclusion? As it is certainly a routine of yours to post ambigious questions adnaseum.

What is outside of time?
Take a guess.

Why are their growth hormones put into beef?
To help beef grow? just a wild guess, don't quote me on that. Ask monsanto. LOL. BTW, i don't eat beef.

Why is our water sources polluted?
We pollute it. Retoric.

why does the dark government create viruses and who benefits from the weeding out process?
Why is there no light Govt. Why does nature make viruses? What weeding out process?

Why are they trying to get rid of undesirables that are only human not really superhuman?
Who, what, and where do we see this happening?

Cleaning the streets up through bio synthetic viruses which have been spread on our fruits and vegtables, trying to create an aids epidemic?
You left out mass paranoia, fear and delusion leading to beliefs not based on fact or evidence.

How many bases are known to man on Earth that are extraterrestrial?
Why ask that here, no one knows. How many Mcdonalds are there in the world?

When did the Air Force take Nasa as an undercover space program?
Didn't know Nasa was undercover.

Why hasn't the public been told about our (top scientist's) going to moon and mars and cross analysing information to sustain an enviroment and biosphere and biological engineering?
Post all you have on that here and the public will know.

Why did the -Zeta program- get out of hand, the C.I.A couldn't stop the proliferation of the ZETA PROGRAM and neutralize the congress and senate?
Mainly because it was not based on our reality.

TheOracle

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 05:48 AM
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I want the skeptics to explain the
Nazca lines

thats all

re22666

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
I think it would be fair to say that most skeptics base their view on the available evidence. In this case, maybe you should ask, why is their such a lack of conclusive evidence in regards to extra terrestrials/extra-dimensional beings?. Most reports of ET contact are eyewitness accounts backed with little other evidence.

i think you should ask yourself why there is such a lack of evidence that the sun is the center of the universe.

i think you should ask yourself why there is such a lack of evidence that the earth is round

i think you should ask yourself why there is such a lack of evidence the selacamp still exsists

and so on

the lack or preponderance of evidence, as history has shown, depends on the paradigm of the times. how do you kow it is not just something we have no way of observing yet?

Lethil

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by TheOracle
I want the skeptics to explain the
Nazca lines

thats all

Explain what?...ok we have no definitive proof of who created these but the leading hypothesis is the nazca people...but since there is no definitive proof....ALIENS! yip that sounds good n logical,ill sleep well tonight....

AntisepticSkeptic

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by flice
reply to post by Malevolent_Aliens

...Sorry... but I can't prove any of it. I lost the receipe for gold, I lost the key to the cave, so the unicorn probably starved to death and as for the telepathic ability, it only works when I'm not rambling and ranting against unbased statements put into text.... that amounts to 99% of my time, so we have to be lucky to prove that.

Yep. I call it the "My dog ate my evidence syndrome"

It happens again and again and again. In fact it happens every freaking time. FOR MORE THAN 50 YEARS. Doesn't that tell anything?

Surely only a paranoid delusiuonal freak would believe with no doubt whatsoever in the existence of E.Ts with this kind of steaming pile "my dog ate my evidence" B.S. happening EVERY SINGLE TIME in the last 50 years.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by AntisepticSkeptic]

[edit on 27-7-2008 by AntisepticSkeptic]

atlasastro

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by AntisepticSkeptic
One question U.F.O skeptics can't answer:

Are U.F.O believers this dumb?

I think UFO and extra-terrestrail/extra-dimensional beings the OP is talking about should be viewed as seperate. As the existence of UFO does not automatically imply ET or Extra-dimensional aliens exist. We can easily attribute the cause of UFO to man. And in most alien contact experiences, evidence of similtaneous UFO sightings are rare.

So while there are many UFO sightings, there is also many that are explained by a rational explanation.

re22666

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by AntisepticSkeptic

Surely only a paranoid delusiuonal freak would believe with no doubt whatsoever in the existence of E.Ts with this kind of steaming pile "my dog ate my evidence" B.S. happening EVERY SINGLE TIME in the last 50 years.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by AntisepticSkeptic]

wow 50 years?????

that seals it.
thank god people didnt "KNOW" that the earth was flat for as long as 50 whole years. whew. that was close.

re22666

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro

So while there are many UFO sightings,

there is also many that are explained by a rational explanation.

that would make them NOT ufo's wouldnt it?

just being a jerk because its late and ya skipped over my response to you to reply to one that kissed your butt so i thought id poke with one more sharp stick. i am genuinely curious how your logic and my logic get along in a room together.

atlasastro

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by re22666

i think you should ask yourself why there is such a lack of evidence that the sun is the center of the universe.
There is now overwhelming observable evidence pointing to the sun being the centre of our nine planetary solar system, but not the universe as a whole. We know the earth is not the centre of the universe, we can see that the sun is not the centre of the universe.

i think you should ask yourself why there is such a lack of evidence that the earth is round
There is now overwhelming observable scientific evidence that the earth is round. We know as fact that the earth is round, we can see that the earth is round.

the lack or preponderance of evidence, as history has shown, depends on the paradigm of the times. how do you kow it is not just something we have no way of observing yet?
Lets be specific, in relation to the OP, there is a massive lack of evidence, relating it to issues where there is a perponderance of evidence available, is just rediculous and illogical. SO, so until the time comes when there is overwhelming evidence of ET/extra-dimensional beings, people will continue to be skeptical. You offer nothing but, might, maybe, perhaps. Again you rely on faith for belief, which is cool. But the OP is asking specific question on those that are skeptical to this topic of Aliens/extra dimensional beings. Which explains my answer.
I think you need to ask yourself why you need to imply that one should believe without evidence, purely because in the past, other people did. Is it because, factually, you have no evidence, other than the hope that in the past people held onto truths purely on belief. Please. Read the OP.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by atlasastro]

atlasastro

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 06:23 AM
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Double post
Sorry Mods

[edit on 27-7-2008 by atlasastro]

yankeydooddle

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 06:24 AM
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why does someone who has observation need skepticism?
does the skepticism makes him or her a better person
?

atlasastro

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by re22666

Originally posted by atlasastro

So while there are many UFO sightings,

there is also many that are explained by a rational explanation.

that would make them NOT ufo's wouldnt it?
YES, but only to those that accept the rational explanation. How often do we see threads die here when people post UFO photos etc that are quickly explained by science or observation, only to have them pop up again and again offered again as evidence of UFO, and by proxy proof of ET.

just being a jerk
If you say so.

because its late and ya skipped over my response to you to reply to one that kissed your butt
I have no idea what you are on about here.

so i thought id poke with one more sharp stick. i am genuinely curious how your logic and my logic get along in a room together.
I am more interested in the OP and the topic in general, than how you or i get along. BTW, your stick is pretty blunt and by your own admission you are a jerk, prone to petty jealousy when individuals "skip" or fail to reply to your posts. Your insecurity then leads you to posting what? The above.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by atlasastro]

re22666

posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
Originally posted by re22666

Originally posted by atlasastro

So while there are many UFO sightings,

there is also many that are explained by a rational explanation.

that would make them NOT ufo's wouldnt it?
YES, but only to those that accept the rational explanation. How often do we see threads die here when people post UFO photos etc that are quickly explained by science or observation, only to have them pop up again and again offered again as evidence of UFO, and by proxy proof of ET.

just being a jerk
If you say so.

because its late and ya skipped over my response to you to reply to one that kissed your butt
I have no idea what you are on about here.

so i thought id poke with one more sharp stick. i am genuinely curious how your logic and my logic get along in a room together.
I am more interested in the OP and the topic in general, than how you or i get along. BTW, your stick is pretty blunt and by your own admission you are a jerk, prone to petty jealousy when individuals "skip" or fail to reply to your posts. Your insecurity then leads you to posting what? The above.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by atlasastro]

ok thanks for again missing my point and ignoring what i actually said about paradigms. i see you arent open to an actual discussion if it does not support you. ok nevermind. i thought i was replying to someone smarter, not another, "um post again what you rere asking so it is clear..." i dont know why i keep thinking i will find an actual discussion here. you people are so good at replying without responding to what is actually said.

hint- its at the top where i mentioned evidence and what is known... anyway it was about the OP and your responses to it. if you cant respond to it, that is ok. somene smart enough will.

[edit on 7/27/2008 by re22666]

[edit on 7/27/2008 by re22666]