Please prove me wrong

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posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 07:36 PM
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I LOL'd when I read this.

From now on, "Prove me wrong" wordfilters to, "I'm never right."




posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 08:04 PM
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Look
I hope you guys aren't thinking of to simple a model.
I wasn't intending getting rid of government altogether.
You need some kind of legislative, economic, judiciary,education, ect ect.
The point I am trying to get across is. The people have the final say. Each branch can purpose whatever they want. But without a majority vote from the populous, it does not get passed.
There are a million finer points you can make, I can not explain every single one. Think common sense.
I am in no way suggesting we go lock the doors to congress and fire them all. What I am saying is take away their ability to make decisions that the majority do not agree on.
What was Congresses last approval rating 9%.... you telling me that we cant do better than 9%?
Do you know what 9% means?
It means I don't give a f@#$ what you think



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by MahNameABorat
 


Look read what this guy has to say
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Your concerns are not being addressed.
The system is broken. The decision making has been bought and paid for.
And you didnt buy it.
Vote for whoever you want. Enough money can get to anyone. Be it bribe blackmail or bomb



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by foremanator
 


Hey Foremanator. I like the idea, except for the following problem I have with it. The governance of the common man should not be in the hand of the common man. Most folks with access to the internet are too busy looking at porn or You Tube to be bothered with the many subtleties and nuances of self-governance. To prove that... Look at the condition we've let our government get in while we gorge ourselves on nudie-flicks, naughty pictures and practice the fine art of voyeurism while watching the show offs making and taking pratfalls, and other assorted tomfoolery on Youtube.

And all aside, with our country having been put in the position it is in by the people who voted the government into office, I am often reminded of the words of a great Kung Fu Master that I have the honor of knowing:

YOU CAN NOT FIX STUPID...



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by sigung86
 


Absolutely I couldn't agree more.
One of the points I made earlier addressed this " where people get their information"
I think the fact that people who haven't cared enough to be educated or informed on the issue at hand wouldn't bother to vote. So in a sense the uneducated opinion becomes null and void.
That's not an absolute, but numbers drown out the odd balls.
I do appreciate your positive post though. It sure seems like I am attracting a lot of negative ones with this LOL.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by foremanator]



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by foremanator
 


Because we are a republic not a democracy.. if you want to incite civil war than it could be done



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by jamie83
As a side note, the banks are in trouble because the people who borrowed money did not repay the banks -the banks didn't steal from them.


If I may add. Lenders, who are supposedly "experts" in the field of making loans to people, did a horrible job. They took shoddy appraisals, shoddy income verification and allowed ratios for many loans that you could see the trouble comming a mile away.

Let's see, stated income (which you basically "told" them what you made) or a no income verification loan, an appraisal that inflated the value of a house and some tweaking of the "numbers" to get your ratios right to get your loan appproved without much oversight. I wonder why the loans defaulted!?!?!?!?!?!?



Let's not even get into the non conforming mortgage backed security aspect...... I just ate and don't want to vomit.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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I would say - it si worth discussing what other alternatives besides delegating decisions to corrupt politicians do we have?

What technologies could be used and how to insure fraud is minimized?

Nice start



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 09:58 PM
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I'd say as average citizens, we're more than capable of making important decisions requiring critical thinking. The proof:

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

The word "DOOMED" comes to mind for some reason.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 10:36 PM
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While I applaud you thinking outside the box on this I am forced to disagree.

The US is not a Democracy it is a Constitutional Republic. It is set up this way to ensure that the will of the majority cannot impact the rights of the minority. If the simple majority is allowed to make all the rules, this country would not be the place it is now. Just imagine what may have occured immediately after 9/11... Allowing control of laws to the majority would lead to a mob mentality. Im not saying that we would have death camps the next day, but, IMHO, things would quickly go south and many of our freedoms would slip away in the name of security, safety, etc...

Not saying that Congress is doing a good job, they stink.


EDIT- Also, many of your examples, namely allowing the majority to approve measures could have the same effects. As example, many civil rights movements would have been squashed fairly quickly... just my 2 cents

[edit on 26-7-2008 by XTexan]



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by XTexan
While I applaud you thinking outside the box on this I am forced to disagree.

The US is not a Democracy it is a Constitutional Republic. It is set up this way to ensure that the will of the majority cannot impact the rights of the minority. If the simple majority is allowed to make all the rules, this country would not be the place it is now. Just imagine what may have occured immediately after 9/11... Allowing control of laws to the majority would lead to a mob mentality. Im not saying that we would have death camps the next day, but, IMHO, things would quickly go south and many of our freedoms would slip away in the name of security, safety, etc...

Not saying that Congress is doing a good job, they stink.


EDIT- Also, many of your examples, namely allowing the majority to approve measures could have the same effects. As example, many civil rights movements would have been squashed fairly quickly... just my 2 cents

[edit on 26-7-2008 by XTexan]

Yes true
But again I point to the fact that we were lied to in the first place about 911 by that exact type of corruption. And again I would like to point out how important it is that we have a true unbiased fair not for profit means of information gathering.
I am sorry but I just cant see how anyone considers main stream news as real news

[edit on 26-7-2008 by foremanator]



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by XTexan
While I applaud you thinking outside the box on this I am forced to disagree.

The US is not a Democracy it is a Constitutional Republic. It is set up this way to ensure that the will of the majority cannot impact the rights of the minority.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by XTexan]

Damn good point by the way.
I must admit I did not consider that



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by foremanator
Yes true
But again I point to the fact that we were lied to in the first place about 911 by that exact type of corruption. And again I would like to point out how important it is that we have a true unbiased fair not for profit means of information gathering.
I am sorry but I just cant see how anyone considers main stream news as real news

[edit on 26-7-2008 by foremanator]


Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that our current situation is a sham, and that the MSM is a joke. I just dont think that giving all the power to the majority is the answer, at least not without STRICT oversight of the majority to ensure the Constitution is upheld. Thats my fear of your idea... a majority rules attitude can lead down a dark path if left unchecked.

I mean, even now, if the majority would just speak up and hound these dirty politicians and hold them accountable a lot of problems could be solved... unfortunately they havent...

EDIT- thanks for the above post, ive heard that stated on ATS by several people before, I didnt know it until I read it myself...

[edit on 26-7-2008 by XTexan]



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 11:00 PM
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You know it could even start off with something simple.
Say a month prior to every election, you send an email to everyone in each specific duerestriction of each congressman. Detailing exactly what they have voted for and against.
Provide the congressman the opportunity to explain why in each instance his rational for voting the way he did.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by foremanator
You know it could even start off with something simple.
Say a month prior to every election, you send an email to everyone in each specific duerestriction of each congressman. Detailing exactly what they have voted for and against.
Provide the congressman the opportunity to explain why in each instance his rational for voting the way he did.


I'd go for that, though good luck getting congress to sign up for it... That information is out there though, except for the why part of course... Id love to get something like that in the mail, however i dont think they'll agree to it, it would give us power and oversight into their inner workings.

I would definitely vote for term limits for these guys, i think that would do a lot for us to get some of these fossils out of there...



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by XTexan
 



They wouldnt have to agree to it.
That information could be compiled independantly



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 11:55 PM
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In a perfect world I could see us all voting by computer.
But we aren't living in a perfect world.
In this world full of liars, thieves, murders, cheats, rapists and politicians (who in my opinion fit all the above catergories), it would be impossible to vote by computer, too much corruption.



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 12:10 AM
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Ok dude, firstly, the main thing about this and the fact that it's a bad idea is:
1. Too easy to hacl a system and sway votes (honestly though, the hackers have only there best interests in mind, but there interests closely match our civil rights).

2. Too much stuff to vote on, people would lose interest pretty quick on it.

3. If there are very, very few votes, what then? Lets say there are only 16 votes, does the bill really matter that much then?

4. What about foriegners? Agian, hackers could easely slip past a system nomatter how many codes or whatever it has and sway votes.

5. I didn't know Jesus_Christ was a member of ATS, he never told me that.

-Jimmy



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by foremanator
reply to post by XTexan
 



They wouldnt have to agree to it.
That information could be compiled independantly


Very true, sounds like a job for the media... Oh wait isnt that what they're supposed to be doing anyways? You know, informing us... Someone should contact Lou Dobbs, he might be willing to get the ball rolling on it...

Also, another 2 cents from me, this should be done every time there's a vote in the house or the senate. Prime time news should ALWAYS show what votes were held on that day and provide details, who voted yes/no, what was the bill, that type of stuff, along with whats is set to be voted on the next day. I know some say it would be boring, and what not, but is this not VERY important?

[edit on 27-7-2008 by XTexan]



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 12:30 AM
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There are so many problems with this:

1) As we know with voting, only certain demographics of people are likely to vote. The impact of the voting population not being representative of the country is lessened because we elected, ultimately, generalists who are responsible for carrying out the duties of all their constituents. Our voting system has some security backups because any elected person who sufficiently angers any voting demographic will spawn a grass roots election campaign to throw them out of office.

2) Who gets to decide what is worthy of being put to a vote? What isn't worthy? If you make people vote on every national/state/local government decision people would be doing nothing all day but voting.

3) There would be no way to institutionalize collaboration or bargaining. The majority would win, and the minority would not be able to form a coalition. This makes tyranny very easy.

4) It costs an eye-popping amount of money to hold elections, multiply that by 365 - it would cost more to run the system than the budgets of most governments.

5) We have a relatively small amount of decision makers at the moment, which makes tracking bribers or underhanded dealing easier. If everyone becomes the decision maker, there is no way to track and punish all of the "cash for votes" and corruption that would emerge, you couldn't even try to fight it.

And on, and on, and on...there are too many reasons to list.





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