The result of this election is pretty much already sealed

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Are you an Obama fan? - yes
Do you listen to his speeches? - yes
He talks about sacrifice, what do you think he means? - yes
He is not going to come right out and say "You must volunteer, or die." then how do you draw these radical whacky conclusions?
He is wanting to set up a mandatory two year "service" for every eighteen year old. Havent seen a shred of evidence that its mandatory. More wild and ignorant, immature, conservative speculations
You have to do that, or join the military. Once again - more speculation, Obama has never said anything about Mandatory service
Do you ever listen to the news or pay attention to what is going on around you? Yeah, but the difference between us is i dont take what they have to say to heart, and indoctrinate it into my political religion
I laugh at all democrats who do not realize Obama is a neo-con. i laugh at conservatives who are so scared *snip* less that they create wild conjectures in attempt to discredit the man who will take the presidency
The con is on you. Whatever helps you sleep at night
He already says he has no intention of reducing the military budget, even if we leave Iraq. Why would he ?
I am amazed at all the self delusion in your party. Im amazed at the blind sheep effect of yours
You are not even being fooled. I know. You are the one with the wool over your eyes

He comes out and says what he wants. unlike other politicians who lie to get there, right? Does the acronym WMDs ring a bell?
The end of America and turning it into a taxation region. America is already taxed...what is your point?

[edit on 7/26/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Originally posted by evanmontegarde
I haven't seen any polls that show a Conservative VP would "unite" the base

I have seen polls showing that 14% of McCain supporters are "excited" for his candidacy, compared to 40% of Obama supporters. What that means is pretty clear - Voter turnout will not be as high for McCain as it could be. Evangelical voters (who put Bush in office, twice) in particular are not going to turn out in masses for McCain.

If you want real analysis of the election, I suggest visiting FiveThirtyEight.

You just quoted the polls man. The excitement factor wont be there till a conservative is on the ticket.

This is a Republican country. There just in the shadows until then.

Originally posted by soup_sandwich
This is a Republican country. There just in the shadows until then.

I disagree Soup_

Half the potential voters buy the "no difference" line and don't bother to vote.
Of the half that do bother to vote about 36% more or less belong to each major party.
The remaining 28-30% (varies from year to year) either waste their votes on a "3rd party" or like the "Reagan Democrats"are fooled into supporting one party or the other for one election.

That, currently Republicans make the most noise, does not make them a majority.

They more often win by supressing the opposition's vote than by fielding a more popular candidate.

Libertarians and Constitution Party choose (R) politicians to head their ticket, then after the election, their "3rd party" Leader goes back to being a lifelong Republican.

"The best way to handle the opposition is to control it ourselves." V I Lenin

Obama is the ultimate expression of RNC taking that advice to heart.

Originally posted by TheOracle
And McCain well, for more years of the same thing Bush started. But for many policies dont really matter, they are mostly those who vote out of fear and misunderstanding.

According to you then, anyone who would vote for McCain is doing so under the guise of fear? Or lack of understanding?

Fear of what? Having a black president? The only fear is imagining how Obama's stand on the issues will further wreck our country and it's economy. There is no 'misunderstanding' as you put it. I think conservative voters voting for McCain understand the issues quite well and are voting on those issues.

For example:

I'll take one issue that Obama stands for - energy. Obama is against building nuclear plants, against clean coal plants, against drilling for our own oil. He wants wind and solar and research into more renewable energy.

Fine and dandy, but let me explain this to you which you probably haven't thought about.

* Do you know how much it would cost to build enough wind farms and outfit enough solar panels to make a difference in generating enough electricity to meet the nation's electricity needs? This would be an ongoing project that would take decades, and who do you think would subsidize most of this? Taxpayers! Are you prepared to help make the switch by paying triple what your current electric bill is right now and continue to do so for decades? Wind and solar are also not going to power our cars - not yet anyway. As of right now, when all Americans are feeling the pinch at the pump, this energy stance does nothing to alleviate the pain.

* No nuclear plants? First of all, forget about a nuclear power plant causing an atomic explosion. That can't happen with all of the safeguards out there. Also forget about 3 Mile Island and Chernobyl - those were faulty reactor designs combined with inexperienced crew and extremely unusual conditions. Today's designs are safe. France for example, is so far ahead of us in generating nuclear power that it's not even funny. Do you know how many jobs these new facilities would created, not to mention how much strain they would relieve from an already over-taxed energy grid?

* Oil. The big evil, oil that Obama wants to get away from. Also fine and dandy, but let me remind you that everything we have right now, today is formatted to use gasoline, which is refined from oil. We can't change a billion car engines overnight to use something else. That's just cars. What about heating? Right now the goal MUST BE to get off our dependence on foreign oil. It's unrealistic to want to switch to renewable energy within the next few years because the technology, the format and the money to make it all happen just doesn't exist yet. This is going to be a LONG process and it takes baby steps. The first step is to quit getting screwed over by nations that want to kill us and quit buying oil from them! We MUST drill for our own oil and secure our economy. Once we do that, then we have to move forward because we know it's a finite resource.

So there's a summarized reason of JUST ONE of the issues and why I support McCain over Obama. How you can say it's based on fear or misunderstanding is beyond me. I think maybe you have been biased by the Obama campaign into thinking one way and only one way.

reply to post by TheOracle

I'd say your incorrect with your statement. When the debates roll around theres going to be people changing sides, i've been into politics since a very young age and it almost always happens.

I'm not going to make a case as to why you should vote for McCain. But a lot of his supporters can't wait for him to get up there with Obama.

Obama may sound like a smooth and articulate speaker, in reality he's almost horrible when he doesn't have a written speech or teleprompter. This in itself will not bode well with Americans.

Its a long shot as i think it may be very close come election time. But I'd say the debates will open up a 15 point lead for McCain.

Originally posted by AndrewTB
reply to post by TheOracle

 

I'd say your incorrect with your statement. When the debates roll around theres going to be people changing sides, i've been into politics since a very young age and it almost always happens.

I'm not going to make a case as to why you should vote for McCain. But a lot of his supporters can't wait for him to get up there with Obama.

Obama may sound like a smooth and articulate speaker, in reality he's almost horrible when he doesn't have a written speech or teleprompter. This in itself will not bode well with Americans.

Its a long shot as i think it may be very close come election time. But I'd say the debates will open up a 15 point lead for McCain.

Well im not a McCain supporter but debates are steak on McCain's plate. The whole 'Im going to give you some straight talk'. Its sounds so geniune. People really relate to it. McCain is really good at town hall formats. The Debates should be interesting. I dont think Obama is going to do aswell as mccain does.

reply to post by soup_sandwich


First off - I don't believe Bush is the most hated, after all he did get more votes than any other presidential candidate in history although his popularity has slipped significantly.

Secondly, Bush isn't running. McCain is very different than Bush with a completely different approach and demeanor. I have a feeling that when the media begins to focus on McCain more, the silent majority will fall more for his humbleness and caring attitude than for Obama's glossy entourage.

I think the comparison as the election gets nearer will be the nice old intelligent man vs. the kid who says what everyone wants to hear.

But then again, I'm voting Libertarian across the board.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

He already says he has no intention of reducing the military budget, even if we leave Iraq. Why would he ?

Because it has bankrupted us and devalued the dollar.
All this war making is useless and counterproductive.
I have to disown my party affiliation because the two parties seem to have merged into one.
I am voting for Nader.

"This is a Republican country."

Nonsense. It's an apathetic country.
45% of voters didn't bother in 2004. That's a greater number than voted for democrats or republicans. The Majority of the US doesn't believe in either party.

"It's not the people who vote that count. It's the people who count the votes." (Josef Stalin)

I bet Stalin would have LOVED Diabold Election Systems paperless electronic voting machines.


I've sided with the Democrats for years but this time around I'm not so sure. I know I don't like McCain, but I don't think I like Obama either.

Since I don't really like either candidate and I really don't think that it matters who I vote for I think I'll probably vote for Cynthia McKinney. She's the Green Party candidate this year. I saw a show called American Blackout where she stood up and asked the hard questions. If anyone deserves to be president it's her.

Half of the potential voters don't bother to vote.
Of the other half, Bush won less than 51%

On his most popular day W was supported by less than 26% of Americans eligible to vote.

Diebold et al
eg:

test:
"run results Bush vs Gore"

Bush =...+1000
Gore =....-1000
result= ..........0

Machine test OK
ready for election

Bush got a pre-programmed lead in each precinct.
In the example, One thousand people had to vote FOR Gore before the machine registered even ONE vote FOR Gore.
Bush still had his one thousand +votes lead though.

FL election 2000 was a sham.
I saw it with my own eyes.

Whites waved through "Safety Checkpoints" in front of polling places, while blacks were pulled to the side and searched.

Bush lost in 2000 by the actual votes cast.
The extreme court had to stop all attempts at an honest vote count in order to appoint Bush in 2000.
In 2004, 2/3rds of voters leaving the polls told pollsters they had voted FOR Kerry.
Machines (as indicated above) had pre-selected Bush again.

2008
When the same fraud is pulled again by amerika's communist party=Republicans
there WILL be race riots.
Obama has already made the threat of race riots when (not if) he loses.