Originally posted by re22666
where i live (WNY) i keep hearing of firemen going door to door to check for smoke alarms and repeatedly hear that they seem to look around more than go right where directed the smoke alarms are, "have to check dryer vents, furnice, fusebox?, etc. as well."

I've also heard the stories of fire inspectors being pressed to "see and report" more than fire code violations.

The gist is people are much less suspicious of the FD, and IIRC the FD can request entry without a warrant (and not just when your house is on fire either).

I'm having a tough time calling this one. Fire prevention is certainly a good thing, but if the inspector stumbles across bad stuff (drug labs, kiddie porn, bodies, bombs, etc), what should they do?

Although they should NOT go out of their way to find things, i.e. "Let's check all your drawers and closets to make sure there's nothing hazardous..."

Heres a simple solution.(if its just you and a few friends and you aren't playing your music stupidly loud)

Dont open your door. Its that simple, dont go to your door dont open it dont even recognize the fact that they are out there. Turn off your music, turn off your lights and go to your basement.

If you have been smoking ganja in your home recently and the cops are at your door dont even contemplate opening the door.

When i was young I had my home invaded several times on the grounds that they could "smell pot" (even though i never allowed smoking in my house) They just smelled the pot smoke on me, Its simple guys just ignore them. They aren't going to kick your door in unless they have a damn good reason.

They're gonna get inside your homes by foreclosing on them.

Oh yes, I love the little harassment stops.

whats more fun, is blowing off pumped up cops who are drunk on their own power. I mean seriously, I just about bait them with words into uttering my favorite phrase "Well if you're innocent than you should have nothing to hide, right?" and my reply is "Hardly. If I'm innocent than you have no reason to search me. Care to rephrase?"

I get blank looks, usually a shrug and am dismissed.

"have a nice day... officer"

can u imagine when they comes into ya house!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hehehehhe

Jackinthebox: Any family with 2 incomes typically does not need to work 2 or 3 jobs, and that's a sad reason to give for "bad parenting." The kids that this is aimed at are typically from more well-to-do homes anyways. They get together for house parties, their parents are oblivious, or just don't care. While your violen-playing scenario may seem reasonable to you, I think that's bunk. None of my friends I know work 2 or 3 jobs. Only if they are going to school or something, and if you are going to college, perhaps that's no the best time to have kids?

Again, yes, there are bad cops. And I see videos posted of these idiots actions. I never see the probably 100-fold more "good cop" moments posted though, how curious. Just like the gloom and doom forcasts I see in many threads here (it always has to be a flood or a NWO or a giant brown dwarf hurtling into us), the negative gets a spotlight. The positive is ignored.

So again, I don't see a wicked agenda associated with this law. I'd think if they wanted to actually get into folks homes, they'd do something more clever than only targeting kids (or folks that "look under 30"). It has the potential to be abused, but we wouldn't need it all, if all parents actually parented, instead of blithely ignoring what their kids are doing behind closed doors.

Originally posted by semperfortis
It's not a 4th Amendment issue, I'll explain why.

California is VERY liberal compared to many states here in the East. In all three states I have worked in, this law is not needed for one very good reason.

If I get a call about a loud party, I have a citizen complaint and therefor "Reasonable Suspicion"...

When I get there, if I see or hear a party going on with juveniles and alcohol present, I now have "Probable Cause". I'm going in the house, period. Arrests will be made.

Remember that the 4th Amendment, or any other part of the Constitution for that matter, does NOT provide protection for people to break the law. That is NOT it's intent and to subjugate it to that role is a disservice to all Americans.

Also understand that asking for an ID is not a 4th Amendment issue. The Supreme Court has CONSTANTLY upheld the right of the police, (Yeah go figure, police have rights too) to request and even demand an identification from any person being stopped under Reasonable Suspicion or Probable Cause.

Google "Terry Frisk" or "Terry Stop"

Semper

i was going to reply to this post with "dude the cops will do whatever they want, whenever they want." then i read this.

my point is this: your overthinking things. they are concocting elaborate conspiracies to get into your pad because as semperfortis just told you, they can do and say whatever they have to do get whatever they need/want.

it's not a big deal, and it's not really worth looking into OR ESPECIALLY FIGHTING. this seriously enables the police to effectively shut down parties and potentially save a lot of children from danger (drunk driving especially) so you're 'conspiracy theory' as a basis for fighting this could actually prove to be more damaging then helpful.

i'm paranoid too, but i use logic and common sense. think about it man, this isn't even a fight worth fighting.

peace.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
What if I refuse to identify myself?

What if you have no right to know who I am just because you have reasonable suspicion?

Not saying that you are, Semper, but A LOT of police officers will arrest you if you don't present an I.D.


[edit on 25-7-2008 by dunwichwitch]

If you are on private property or even in a parking lot and a cop drives up asking you what you are doing where you are going etc,. you do not have to answer them. If they ask you for an ID and you refuse to oblige, they may think you don't have an ID on your person in which case in many states it is against the law not to carry an ID. In this case simply inform them that you didn't say you don't have an ID but that they CAN'T SEE IT. You have thre right to remain anonymous. Know that any questions they ask are because they are looking for something concrete to make an arrest and if you ARE up to some spurious activity, the best thing you can do is NOT give them the stick to beat you with. Know as long as they are asking questions, they don't have enough to make an arrest. So in this case some questions are best left un-answered by you.

Remember anything you say can and WILL be used against you. Many understand this to be a "may be used against you" when it is WILL be used against you and that means every time every thing you say.

If they ask you why you are not cooperating let them know that you do not have to do their Job for them. In most cases simply asking the cops if you are under arrest during the initial start of any dialogue with them and they say NO, then it is best to keep it that way by letting them know you are under no obligation to cooperate and unless they arrest you you're free to go about your business.

Here is one I know can get many cops in trouble because they do it all the time. During an onsite investigation questioning anyone they think looks suspicious, know that it isn't illegal to look suspicious (whatever that is) invariably they will want to place handcuffs on you allegedly for your own safety and their own. Now this is no time to be timid but INSIST that you know what you are being placed under arrest for. They will again say you are not under arrest and repeat that is is just policy blah blah blah.

Let them know that YOU know the law and remind them if they put those handcuffs on you, your freedom of movement is being impeded and you have officially been "incarcerated" THAT means you MUST be UNDER ARREST so they had better know what they are doing because if they don't have a reason to to incarecerate you, safety or no safety, that YOU WILL SUE them for false arrest.

Most everyone I know who has asserted themselves in this manor, the cops backed off because they know it's true.

Unless you are under arrest, they don't have a right to touch you much less have you answer any questions but the last thing they can do is put you under arrest while saying you are not under arrest and that is EXACTLY what they are doing putting handcuffs on you during questioning you and searching your person to find whatever they can to really arrest you for.

Most of the time, they find it too but you have a better chance to avoid that eventuality letting them know you are aware of this most abused violation of ones rights.

This law sounds more like something to placate a special interest but is basically nothing more the cops are not already within their rights to do.

The OP in my opinion is making a mountain out of a mole hill







[edit on 25-8-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]