How they will get inside our homes!!!(It's starting...)

For those of you who accuse me of taking this out of context, or sensationalizing the issue, just realize that there are only two papers in town, And I provided both versions of the event. The fact is, this law now says that probable cause to enter your home is 5 people, and ONE beer.

This is pretty obviously unconstitutional.

I find this outrageous and the series of events that could result from this is pretty disturbing.

Slowly but surely, the dove of peace and freedom is losing its feathers.

For as long as we can communicate, the light of hope is still alive !
Keep on fighting for your rights people !

Laws are written to make what was not a crime into a crime,laws make criminal behaviour happen,it is a self propagating government trick that is used to make those who are not necessary,seem to be necessary when they are not.
The only way to fix the problem is to stand up against it en-masse,if we stopped fighting with each other about stupid issues,and could agree on what we need to survive without being selfish little childlike consumers,seekers of shiny things like stupid birds...we could make this a better world to live in.
Governments justify themselves by creating crime,governments are the true criminals here.
The only law giver that has any real power is the force of nature,do you see a group of animals ruling over the wilderness?...I thought not,because rulers are only out to place themselves above others to make it easier for themselves to get what they need to survive.
The powers that be are the most helpless,worthless forms of life on this planet,they are lazy,fat rich scum,who survive off of the backs of slaves,and waste the fruits of yours and my labor.
I may have seemed to wander off of the topic,but in reality,there is a much more deeply seated and un-recognized problem here.
Too many People are too stupid to realise they are the holders of the key to free themselves from their bondage.........
Really,only minimal government is necessary.
Dudes,we have them out-numbered by many times,let us stop fighting with each other and run their lazy fat asses off!.

Chip on Both Shoulders, read "lord of the flies" and you'll understand why we need government.

there are two very easy ways to avoid this law completely

1) throw your party properly, tell your neighbours you are going to be throwing a party so they can be out of the area or at least prepared to deal with the noise. get a party permit , that is, if they exist in America, i'm an aussie, so maybe it's different over your way, but over here you can get a permit that allows you to have your music up until about 1 in the morning and no-one can stop you until then. however you usually get the cops rolling around at some point to make sure it isn't getting out of hand.

2) don't break the god-damn law! if the cops turn up to your party, and you all offer up id's, and no-one's underage, there isn't a bloody thing they can do. they'll leave and you can all have a chuckle about it later.

honestly, the only people who need fear the law are those breaking it, and in aus i'm not even allowed to carry a gun to enforce said law, so you guys already have an advantage on your side.

I can see alot of differnet perspectives on this. First, 5 people under 30, and 1 beer, means the police can look at I.D.'s Where are the police going to look at the ID on the porch? no most of the time they are going to come inside the house. This means they are allowed to search the house. If my 12 yr sneaked a sip of wine, then he can now arrest me, and my 12 yr old for, and fine me.

The law is there for unreasonable search and seizure. This new law, while I can understand why it could help the police in massive parties, has the implications to break the 4th quite easily. You're saying that if the 4th is broken I can go to court and sue. I am saying, I shouldn't have to go to court and sue, because the law violates the 4th, or has the ability to and therefore shouldn't have been passed, or implemented.

The police have enough laws on there books to use in policing the citizenry, they don't need more.

As far as my neighbors calling, or for that matter me calling the police, well, I live in a town with 2 police officers. I am very good friends with one, and his wife watches my kids. If some idiot down the road was throughing a party, and keeping me up(which has happened on several occasions) I go down, have a beer, and explain, hey, its 3:00 am, I got to work tomarrow, and you just woke up my kids. Most people will turn down the music and take it inside. If not, thats when I get aggressive, and take the power cord off of it, or "accidently break" the sterio. Thats only happened once (1 power cord) and 1 smashing the damn sterio, the power cord, they became more obliging afterword. The sterio, well, what can I say, its the 3rd time I went down there, and they kept turning it back up. Life sucks, but are you really going to call the cops at 3 am for a guy that smashed your cd player, with 50 there all drinking, and possible drugs? You know what, they didn't and next time they through a party, they turned the music down at 10pm, and I didn't here it at all after 1am.

Moral of the story, if your rights are being violated, it is your responsiblity NOT the police, to do something FIRST. If it doesn't happen after that, then bring the police in. Most partiers can understand and actually turn the music down, there not there to be a-holes, they're there the have fun.

Just my 2 cents,

Camain

reply to post by camain


I want to hug you for saying what you just did.

This is the point I've been trying to make...

Why should I have to prove a law is possibly going to violate my rights, when it is obvious it will?

It's not about drinking, as I DON'T drink anyways....

It's about having the right to NOT let the police in my home without fearing that thwy will fine my landlord....

California is liberal?

Give me a moment so I can laugh here! lol

I grew up in the midwestern bible belt. And I thought California would be a more liberal place to live. After moving there, I definitely found out that it's the opposite.

I lived in a small town most of my life in the midwest and was never mistreated by police. Surprise.

When I moved to Ca. I had some of the WORST experiences with police there. I have already posted about one of them.

One time when I was 9 months pregnant, ready to have my baby, my husband made a last min run to the store to pick up a few things before I had to go to the hospital.

He took our old volvo, which happened to have a large dent in the drivers side door.

He ran into the store, and as he got back to the car with our groceries, two officers approached him and asked him what he thought he was doing. He told them. They said they had a report that someone who had been robbing the Safeway's of liquor that day was driving a volvo with a dent in the door. Immediately he was suspect.

Because he ran off without his ID, and just had a $20 dollar bill in his hand (he was nervous, first time dad), the police immediately built up a case on him claiming he just left his ID behind so he could hide.

They handcuffed him, hauled him to jail clear off to another city, 45 min away. They impounded the car as evidence.

I had to take a cab all the way over to the next city just so I could bring his ID in.

We had to pay impound fees. It was absolutely freaking ridculous.

Times, they are changing. Sorry, but.... they are and it's getting worse with the police and these laws.

You are guilty in this country, until you prove yourself to be innocent.

California has got to be the worst state I have lived in when it comes to overzealous police officers.

OH let me tell you guys what happen to me last night. Last night reminded me of how much i hate cops and i do hate them more now. Ok last night someone tried to steal my dads truck from the side of our house. I was in the room and my mom was int he living room watching her shows. So she heard a noise from the front of our house and she turned on the front porch light and saw our truck in the middle of the street. She came and got me and i went out and seen the truck out on the streets so i knew someone tried to steal it because we always park it on the side of the house. So i called the cops and they showed up. I told them what happen and told them about a guy i saw the day before walking by our house and looking at our cars. After i told them that they said they are going to keep an eye out for the person in the neighborhood. So after all that the cop ask me: "So did the dispatcher take all your info down?" i replied: " I just told them my name and my address." So the cop decided that he wanted more "info" on my and i dont know why. So he ask: "well do you have your i.d. on you?" i said "nope its in the house probably." Then he told me to go get that so he can get [our] information down. And right when he asked me that i knew in the back of my mind that this cop is being a Dick and is trying to f*ck with me. So i told him ok ill go grab it out of the house. 1 minute later i came back out and i told them: "Oh i must have left my wallet at work." Playing there little games back. Then i looked at the cops face and he knew i know that he is f*cking with me. Then he asked for my name.. then he asked if i know my drivers license number i said: "no." then ask for my social and i said: "No i dont remember it." playing dumb. And his face i remember looked shocked taht i didnt give him that info. F*cking cops. Im the victim and the cops trying to get info on my like i was the suspect. What a bunch of bull#.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by mrfire9]

[edit on 26-7-2008 by mrfire9]

[edit on 26-7-2008 by mrfire9]

I love the source headline:

S.B. May Crack Down on Parents Who Give Minors Booze

I love the indecision of the county.

reply to post by jasonjnelson


I read both your sources and nowhere does it state that police can raid your house for 5 people and 1 beer. You are being overly dramatic. Please cite a source for the legislation.

The non-alarmists in this thread (and society in general) are much more disturbing than the so-called alarmists. Nothing to see here.... move along. RIGHT!

This happened to me in my fair city of 100,000:

I called the city non-emergency line to report a car that had been parked in front of my house for a couple of weeks. The car was blocking me from parking and I wanted the car removed. I specifically told them not to come to my door because I was leaving for work and my wife was still sleeping.

Long story short..... when the cops arrived, they kept knocking on my door until my half asleep wife answered the door. The two cops PUSHED THEIR WAY INTO MY HOUSE and started looking around! My brother was living with me at the time and, unbeknownst to us, had some parphenalia sitting out on his nightstand in his bedroom.

The cops threatened my wife with Child Protective Services and wanted to arrest ME, because I was listed as the tenant. They said they'd be back at 6PM and, if someone didn't claim ownership of said paraphenalia, someone (ME) was still going to jail.

You can imagine my dismay when I returned home from work to see the car in question still sitting there blocking my parking spot, then hearing about the whole debacle from my now sobbing wife. My brother ended up spending three weeks in jail as well as supervised probation and classes. Better him than me or my wife and/or daughter.

So.... YES this kind of thing does happen in the good ole U.S of A. Star, flag, and kudos.

reply to post by Nowalive


Um, it's quoted on the first p[age. A gathering is gauged as consisting of 5 or more people. It's in quotes. And you're right, At least TWO of the people must look under age. Other than that, what can I say? I actually live hear, and have been following this for weeks. I am not oversensationalizing the truth. I even quoted BOTH of our papers...But thats what google is for, right?

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
This is will allow for AMAZINGLY blatant violations of illegal search and seizure protections as outlined by our Bill of Rights!

In Carpinteria, the new ordinance -- which so far has not been put to use -- means that when authorities stop a party by knocking on the door, they’re no longer limited to merely suggesting that the revelers turn down the music. Now, they can detain anybody on the premises who appears to be a minor, and ask them to show ID, he said.

The Carpinteria ordinance defines "party" as any gathering with five or more people. If at least two of the drinkers are minors, the deputies can issue citations.

Source
This is the basis for the new Santa Barbara law...

County leaders targeted underage drinking at house parties with a 4-1 vote on Tuesday to draft legislation that could levy civil and criminal penalties against party hosts, parents and others responsible for property where minors are caught drinking alcohol.
Known as a social host ordinance, the legislation would supplement laws already on the books that make furnishing alcohol to a minor illegal.

Second source

Here you go!

Saves you having to look back two pages...

Originally posted by CombatDrug
Chip on Both Shoulders, read "lord of the flies" and you'll understand why we need government.

there are two very easy ways to avoid this law completely

1) throw your party properly, tell your neighbours you are going to be throwing a party so they can be out of the area or at least prepared to deal with the noise. get a party permit , that is, if they exist in America, i'm an aussie, so maybe it's different over your way, but over here you can get a permit that allows you to have your music up until about 1 in the morning and no-one can stop you until then. however you usually get the cops rolling around at some point to make sure it isn't getting out of hand.

2) don't break the god-damn law! if the cops turn up to your party, and you all offer up id's, and no-one's underage, there isn't a bloody thing they can do. they'll leave and you can all have a chuckle about it later.

honestly, the only people who need fear the law are those breaking it, and in aus i'm not even allowed to carry a gun to enforce said law, so you guys already have an advantage on your side.

This kind of thinking really disturbs me.

Every time a law is made or changed, it doesn't mean the government is out to get you. I suppose a board like this however, is the place to overreact....

There really is a problem with younger kids drinking now (and drag racing, and acting like they are in their mid-20s), much more so than when I was a kid.

If they start raiding the homes of folks say, in their 30s, who might have their radio on a bit too loud, and demand IDs, and seach the premises, you don't think those 5 people will do a thing? I would. Regardless of these alarmist posts saying we are losing all our rights, we actually still DO have rights, on a level that is laughable compared to many countries. When you learn martial arts, you are taught to pretty much never use them unless you have no choice, since even a thug entering your home can sue YOU if you injure them with a kick to the head. Funny, but true. We are the land of ridiculous rights.

Trying to crackdown on partying kids doesn't make our government a sinistar communistic force. If they abuse it once it goes into effect, by all means raise a fuss. Othewise, stop panicing over silly things.

Let me ask you.. how would YOU handle the issue with teens partying and drinking? Should they just continue as they are? How would you right that law, if you were trying to make it easier to stop this sort of thing, what would you do?

If there is a problem, it's people not doing something AFTER their rights have been violated. If you were a group of 5 that got raided, asked for IDs, and your home searched, and you did nothing, that's your own fault. The laws actually do protect your rights, if you choose to pursue justice.

And corrupt / power-hungry cops are nothing new. If they violate your rights, call them on it.

Originally posted by semperfortis




When I get there, if I see or hear a party going on with juveniles and alcohol present, I now have "Probable Cause". I'm going in the house, period. Arrests will be made.


Semper

If you get a call about a loud party and see teenage girls in bikinis and happen to spot a camera in the house, does that equal PC to believe that underage porn is being filmed?

Given your definition, a kid blasting music while his parents are out of town gives you PC if the parents happen to have a well stocked bar in their home.

Sorry, but that doesn't equate to PC.

Just out of curiosity, how do you feel as an LEO about enforcing unconstitutional laws?

An interesting point, from a european perspective, is that this is SO not going to happen in the EU. For all the US jeering about "old europe", this sort of law would be laughed all the way to oblivion.
You guys are slowly turning into joyless automotated crypto-fascists.....Enjoy...

This is an issue for parents to handle, not police.

What really disturbs me is that so many people don't understand how disturbing this is.

It is ridiculous to say, "Well if police abuse this power it will get handled."

That is completely idiotic. Giving police this kind of power is completely and obviously unconstitutional. Entering homes on suspicion like this is ridiculous. This will obviously lead to more than just asking for IDs.

People partying and keeping it under control, should not be #ed with. And even if it gets too loud they should be warned. The idea the cops can enter homes like this so easily is really sickening.

I'll bet when the Nazi governor of CA or any cronies throw a party and make noise, they'll be exempt from the laws and searches when a citizen complains of there shenanigans. These freako laws are made to stamp the little people down, and not the wealthy, influential, and movers.