How they will get inside our homes!!!(It's starting...)

I realize what Semperfortis and Alightinthedarkness are saying, however I still disagree.

This is about the possible applications of this law.

With the Executive branch already saying that the president can order the military into an area without a warrant,and cease and detain Citizens, under the auspices of fighting terrorism, these types of laws on a local level scare me.

The fact is, I should be able to gather in my nome with a total of 5 people, (and as I pointed out in this college town, 5 is a normal number per household) without fear of random police check ups. What if I didn't bring my I.D. across the street to my neighbors? The owner is cited and fined. But again, it's not about the drinking, it's about the APPLICATION of this law.

There are many things that we all take for granted as being legal now, which might be illegal in the near future, and could be found during these "random" I.D. checks that WILL occur under this new law.

Sounds like NAZI Germany to me.



[edit on 25-7-2008 by jasonjnelson]

My response is, dont answer the door. Without a search warrant, the police cannot come in, period. All this law means is, learn and exercise your rights. I have EVERY right, in my own abode, to NOT answer the door, and unless the police come with a warrant, they have to go get one to enter if you dont answer, and by that time, any thing untoward can be removed or disposed of.

It sounds like the police in this town just want to harass teens, much like most police I have had the displeasure of encountering.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Maybe thats how the law starts out...

And then progresses to reach intentions that the writers ever considered...

I'm sorry OP but your sounding paranoid. You don't have to show your ID, although if you commit a crime in front of them you will be hauled off to jail even if you don't want to show your ID. The constitution does not protect you from being able to escape liability for crimes.

I had to live next to some college kids who would not turn down the music. I don't care what time it is. You don't have a right to blast the music so loud that I can't sleep or concentrate. At that point your rights have violated my rights, and I will use the legal means available to me to stop you.

The police have always had the ability to ask to see your ID, and you can decide to show it or not. If your loud music is so loud its bothering someone, the police could care less who you are. If they have a reasonable suspicion that you are liable for something, they can haul you to jail.

Your sensationalizing this.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


READ THE NEW LAW!!!

How can they ascertain if you are of age without a proper I.D.?

I think you are guilty of not being able to carry this to a logical conclusion...

I don't drink. AT ALL. I am not being paranoid. IT IS AND WILL BE A LAW!!!
That means that they can come in my house, any time there is 5 or more people, and AN IDEA of alcohol! If I refuse, I AM FINED> It's in black and white friend. I waited days before posting it to make sure I read the local law right.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by jasonjnelson]

i think they are over reacting... police being allowed to come in and arrest us on suspicion of "partying" is nothing to worry about. this doesnt mean police are allowed to come in and give us seizures like you mentioned...

even if police do abuse this right, all we need is a couple of good cases, and we take them to court and they lose their job.

reply to post by TornPages


Really.

I'm so happy to see that the recent fights against the use of tasers has gone so well.

And all of the cases of blatant police corruption sure have prevented many others...

reply to post by jasonjnelson


Actually whats funny is I'm being very logical about this. You are the one who is trying to make this out to more than it is. There is nothing illegal or wrong with the law. The police have no reason to come to your door if your not bothering anyone, and if they do, you can refuse to show them your ID. That's it. They cannot search your house without a warrant.

There is no reason to be this paranoid. You just don't like the police, and your looking for something (given your other comments in this thread).

reply to post by jasonjnelson


we need NESARA
www.nesara.us...
www.luisprada.com...



take care

Well, a about 4 years back I was at a good rockin houseparty, well over 50+ people, some were underage about 5 or 6 people at the time, after about 3 noise complaints the police returned to the house... had atleast 3 cruisers and paddy wagon outside, my buddy who owned the house at the time answered the door, the cops asked to turn down the music and if they can come in, he simply said we'll turn down the music but theres nothing to see here officer just a birthday party, and they all left... simple as that, they only get they're hopes up. There was even someone there with a warrent out for they're arrest and they didn't even have a chance, simply because they never got in to see who was attending the shindig... bah they try to hard, should be out patrollin the hood instead of busting contained parties, atleast nobodys out scrapping on the streets jeeze...

reply to post by jasonjnelson


They start with the kids to be submissive then next thing you know we have a whole country of submissive fools!!!!!

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


Actually, I have NO problems with the cops. And if you would take the time to read the law, you will see that they DON'T need a warrant to ask for your I.D. under the guise of "making sure you're a legal drinker" if there is alcohol present.

Far from hating cops, I am currently under application to the CHP.

But thanks for the assumption!

reply to post by jasonjnelson


Sigh. Once again. The law allows for cops to ask for your ID. It does not force you to show ID. You do not have to show ID. It really is just that simple. There are many laws on the books the be paranoid about (eminent domain is one of them), but this is not it.

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


AND IF you don't, then the owner of the property is liable for the fine, and any subsequent ones. It's like not taking a breathalyzer when you are pulled over for DUI. You are automatically guilty.

Seriously, I am not a cop basher, but can you read? did you read the article that contains notes DIRECTLY from the meeting. THIS IS NOT ABOUT COPS!

This is about the cops being allowed to disrupt ANY GATHERING, ANYWHERE, in s.b., as long as there are 5 or more people. I am not a child. I am a thirty year old man, and veteran. You are being condescending on a conspiracy website.

screwed up rich teens trying to act like movie stars, while their parents are out acting like movie stars.
There are enough illegitimate children in the world today, finding ways to stop these stupid teens shouldnt be a problem. When it starst effecting legal age adults then its a problem. imo

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


I'm sorry..I have to disagree here. If the police enter your home ANYTHING in 'plain view' is subject to investigation, e.g. a bong, beer keg, weapon etc. You should also understand MINORS and NON-Residents do NOT have the right to grant police (or anyone) access to you home.

I know, because just such a thing happened to me, I was in a house I didn't own ( I was only a tennant) and I stepped outside and told police I could not give permission for them to enter the home in question. Since they didn't posess a warrant, they promptly excused themselves and left.

However, if they had gone inside, ANYTHING they see could be used against me or even lead to my arrest if it were up to them.

Remember this, Police Are NOT your friends, you cannot reason with them, they have 3 purposes (duties) in their job:

1-Detain
2-Investigate
3-Arrest

So, Don't break the law and KNOW your rights so they don't violate them (or worse let them trick you into violating them or giving them up).

I had an encounter with the police a couple months ago because a neighbor called the cops on me saying I was throwing an "underage drinking party" at my apartment.

I was home alone for 4 hours just chilling to some music on my laptop. I had about 5 officers huddled around my door, telling me it was a noise complaint, asking for my ID, wanting to come inside to look around (fat chance!), and ended up running my license.

Despite the various videos and text files I read about police encounters, I was ill prepared to have half of my towns police force knocking on my door. Later I find out that it wasn't even my next door neighbors, but just some random person in the complex who likes to call CPS and cops on people.

If this sort of law was passed here, my frustration would have been increased ten fold. But this is exactly what they want, neighbor's calling the cops on each other to give them an excuse to search.

My music was not loud at all, my next door neighbor of the apartment "didn't hear a thing".

In New York, it is required of you to show your ID, so I had to comply.

I'm 21, but I look much younger. I also don't carry my ID on me unless I need it (tobacco, driving, etc), so this would obviously cause me some problems if a law like this was ever passed here.

I live in new york, not the city, but an out of the way small town, for clarity.



[edit on 26-7-2008 by DisobedientCitizen]

reply to post by TroyB


I'm afraid the supreme court completely disagrees and has overturned cases on this point. Unless something is a blatant violation of the law, nothing can be done. Yes, if your in the process of shooting someone and the police come in, they can arrest you without searching your home. If your partying and the police search your house and find weed, they will lose any case against you.

Obviously, if something is in plain view they can arrest you for it if its illegal. The illegal search laws do not exist to protect people from illegal activities. I have never said anything different, so your arguing with a straw man.

But of course this is ATS, silly me, we need'nt bring facts into this =) Oh and by the way, but sorry, the police are not out to get you. Your personal dislike of the police does not mean they are after you.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

reply to post by jasonjnelson


You need to really get over this. Just because someone disagrees does not mean they are being "condescending." Police have the right to enter wherever they want if they have a reasonable suspicion that you are up to something that they can prove in court. If they fail to prove reasonable suspicion, the case can be dismissed. Nothing has changed. Oh boy, now the cops can fine a property owner if their tenets doesn't let the cops in on probable cause. As previously refusal to do so would result in additional criminal charges against you, you should be happy about this. Looks like the law is getting even easier on you.

Anyways, it is obvious the OP does not want any disagreement here and frankly a discussion of OMGZ OUR RIGHTS ARE BEING TAKEN AWAY when they so clearly are not and people are in denial about it is no longer interesting to me, so I'll bow out of the thread. Ya'll have fun.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


So now you are saying that we have nothing to fear because we could always challenge this in court...

Ummm, ISN'T THAT WHY I BROUGHT THIS UP HERE?

So I now see that you agree with me that this is a steop towards being able to come in our homes and I.D. us. For what ever reasons, this can easily be abused, and will be the minute they decide to make illegal anything that you do now normally.

This law makes it almost IMPOSSIBLE to negate that there was "probable cause"

"Well, your honor, it looked klike there might have been a beer, and a guy under 21 in the same house. So we just used probable cause, and found this as well....."