Reason why Obama didn't visit injured troops.

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by mental modulator

 

Well, if you want a real answer....


I disliked the spectacle of his visit to Germany...

What trip was this? Because campaigning abroad does not make person more "vetted" on foreign policy.

Obama has 300 staffers for this. (fact)

THe problem I have is that the previous peoples who made a stand on that same stage stood for bringing down walls. Never have I seen an AMERICAN buy into media rhetoric, and confirm to the world that we are the problem. That if Obama gets in, the American image will be corrected.

Here's a question for you. What happens now if Mccain is elected? what about all these promises and speeches that Obama made when he had no control over foreign policy?
Will there be riots around the world?
The man is a proven liar. Don't talk to me about Bush or Mccain.


Just answer for Obama's lies.... Please?

What happens now if Mccain is elected?

Well I will be very upset. I think that depends on if there are any voting irregularities.
If it became obvious and widely reported upon that there was, then I think there will be blood in the streets before the morning. The 2000 election has unfortunately made a whole lot of us very volatile on this. Right or wrong many many citizens here would probably die. Thats why both parties have to keep their hands off tallying and tapping about.

Now if it is obvious that Mccain won square,,, I will deal with it. I'm not sure how the world will react, I can't speculate on that.

what about all these promises and speeches that Obama made when he had no control over foreign policy?

Good point ,,, I don't know really,,, I assume that if I can can get over it anyone can.
I have been an admirer of Obama since he was up against Keys.

What do you think, if you had to be objective?

Will there be riots around the world?

I hope not,,, The one thing I know and you have got to understand this! IF THERE IS SOME DIEBOLD COMPUTER GLITCH, A WHOLE AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT HAS PENCILED IN DAVID DUKE OR ANYTHING OF THE SORT... YOU GUYS BETTER BACK US UP AS CITIZENS AND COUNTRY MEN OR THEIR WILL BE NO MORE COUNTRY HERE.

I understand that there is spin from both sides, there is hate and misunderstanding but millions of us feel we were wronged in 2000...
Agree with it or not, is not the point,,, the Point is we believe it,,, If our votes are taken away there is no more point for any of us

reply to post by mental modulator


My view would be;

Beneath all of the talking points the Conservative right has thrown out there, is the truth that Obama really has been playing the same game that all polliticians play, and that he has been believing what the press has been saying. That we are hated internationally.

Let me tell you, I work in a job where I see all different nationalities, and they don't share these anti-american sentiments. Obama believes that people hate us, and he understands their feelings. But seeing as this is NOT the overwhelming truth, His views on foreign policy will not be followed if Mccain wins. Which gives MANY enemies of America the right to then hate us more, citing our "inability " to change. I have written many threads on the subject that are ignored because they involve FACTS, not rhetoric. (not that I'm accusing you, you seem open to a factual analysis...)

I think Obama perpetuates a false image of America...

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by mental modulator

 

My view would be;

Beneath all of the talking points the Conservative right has thrown out there, is the truth that Obama really has been playing the same game that all politicians play, and that he has been believing what the press has been saying. That we are hated internationally.

Let me tell you, I work in a job where I see all different nationalities, and they don't share these anti-american sentiments. Obama believes that people hate us, and he understands their feelings. But seeing as this is NOT the overwhelming truth, His views on foreign policy will not be followed if Mccain wins. Which gives MANY enemies of America the right to then hate us more, citing our "inability " to change. I have written many threads on the subject that are ignored because they involve FACTS, not rhetoric. (not that I'm accusing you, you seem open to a factual analysis...)

I think Obama perpetuates a false image of America...

Ya your sure right about the guy being a politician...

All I can say is I have spent a bit of time south of the boarder--- we are not hated there.

I did have to get on the defensive in Canada a couple of times 05-06.

On one occassion a drunk French Canadian wanted to bust me up for no other reason...

I was in New Zealand in 2004, the folks there don't hate us... the sentiment there is more along the lines of - "What are you guys Doing????"

I cannot honestly say I have the pulse on the global anger level,,, it sounds like you have a fuller perspective. Therefore, I could be convinced that Obama should have used different rhetoric in his speech.

Regardless - I DO NOT think Obama is evil or phoney - maybe cocky, calculated...
I have found that all the negative stuff has made me pay closer attention...

If at some point I realize I am wrong then I will change my vote. Until then...

GOODLUCK

Thanks for you candor




[edit on 26-7-2008 by mental modulator]

[edit on 26-7-2008 by mental modulator]

I went to France last summer and dude, can tell you, being an American guy there got me so much action. The first night out, i ended up at a hotel with two hot French babes .. it was like a dream .. yet very real

I'm glad Bush didn't screw up my American appealness *that bad* otherwise, i wouldn't have had as much fun as I did!

Talk about Liberal - wow

[edit on 26-7-2008 by jetxnet]

And of course, had Obama made this visit to the wounded, you haters would have blamed him from trying to get political points from it.
Objectively I think he should have gone ahead and visit the troops anyways, its not such a big deal i reckon considering he wants the troops out of Iraq and is not a warmonger like the other candidate trying to put men and women in harms way in an never ending war in the middle east.

Originally posted by TheOracle
considering he wants the troops out of Iraq and is not a warmonger like the other candidate trying to put men and women in harms way in an never ending war in the middle east.

I think you might want to re-check his policies. This is a man who wants to heighten involvement in Afghanistan and who has openly said that he would bomb targets in Pakistan without the approval of the Pakistani government. The statements on his website also imply the possibility of military action in three African countries, particularly Sudan, where he calls for a UN 'peacekeeping' action (and, of course, US troops will certainly spearhead that effort as always).

Obama is no anti-war candidate. That's a myth. He is an anti-Iraq War candidate. Note that I'm not saying that he's wrong in all of these cases. In at least some, he is not...but this idea that he's anti-war and such isn't really accurate. His stated policies paint a picture of a candidate who will govern with an interventionist foreign policy.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by vor78]

Originally posted by vor78


I think you might want to re-check his policies. This is a man who wants to heighten involvement in Afghanistan and who has openly said that he would bomb targets in Pakistan without the approval of the Pakistani government.

and you have a problem with that, but still support McCain?

... excuse me....

maybe you Should go read this . If you hold it against Obama, then you have to hold it against everyone else equally - otherwise be a hypocrite

And i know you're not a hypocrite, vor, im just saying it so it can be read.

Why would the pakistan government "approve" targets to be bombed?

Honestly.

That'd be like the US government bombing a small town in new mexico thought to harbor a few al qaeda cells ..... wouldnt make much sense.

However, in typical American style, you've just condemned the actions of what republicans have been doing for 7 years, in favor of trying to condemn Obama's words.

Bush went in and bombed Iraq without the approval of the Iraqi government!

See the difference?

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Read my post all the way through. As I said, he is not wrong in many of these instances as a matter of principle. I'm simply taking issue with the idea that Obama is anti-war. He is not. He supports an interventionist foreign policy and that is undeniable.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by vor78]

Gawd, you guys are such idiots....

Originally posted by TheOracle
And of course, had Obama made this visit to the wounded, you haters would have blamed him from trying to get political points from it.

So what your saying is that it is more respectable to not visit if there are no political points? Obama is all show and no go. His campaign is a facade whose opulence is maintained only by other's hatred of bush. Whenever I ask an Obama supporter what Obama has to offer all I hear about is how much they hate Bush. To me that's no reason to support the golden child.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Barack Obama was not prohibited from visiting U.S. troops at military facilities in Germany, but it would have been awkward.

That was the suggestion from both the Obama campaign and the military Friday,

I'd say it would be awkward! Given the lukewarm reception he'd already received by the troops in Iraq, Obama would feel awkard indeed!

Esp. when the wounded troops started asking him where his lapel pin was?

Or why he thinks the surge was a failure?

reply to post by jsobecky


Which is more awkward?

1) The accusations of politicizing a trip to a military hospital to see our injured troops.

or

2) The accusations that you skipped a visit to a military hospital because it wasn't a good photo op?

The Obama campaign blew it here. Whatever their reasons, they have no one to blame but themselves for the outcome. Yes, it was, in some respects, a no-win situation and there was a downside to both actions. But there was a right choice and wrong choice. Their choice? Option #2, the wrong one, which had the biggest downside by far and absolutely no upside. Nice judgement call there.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by vor78]

reply to post by Hal9000

Originally posted by Hal9000
Well you conservativfacsist are all out in force today aren't you?

I'm surprised you had to resort to name-calling, HAL9000. Now where's your other half to defend you?

reply to post by jsobecky


And i'm not suprised that you resort to personal attacks, and off topic posting....again....


Obama gave his reasons for not visiting the troops, and BH showed us those reasons, so i have to ask, why are we still discussing this as if Obama had no reason to not visit on a presidential campaign run?

reply to post by vor78


My biggest beef with this is the fact that he lied and tried to blame this on the Pentagon. As a matter of fact, this was the Pentagon's response:

Obama Staff Blames Pentagon For Candidate’s Failure To Visit Wounded Troops

Obama for President campaign spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters that Senator Obama had every intention to visit wounded troops at the U.S. Military Hospital in Landstuhl, Germany, but then the Pentagon voiced concerns.

The Pentagon said on Friday that it did not prevent an Obama visit.

“Nobody denied Senator Obama the opportunity to visit our wounded being cared for at Landstuhl. Obviously, as a sitting senator, he has an interest in that and can certainly visit in an official capacity,” said Bryan Whitman, a spokesman for the Pentagon, who added that there are “restrictions on what you can do as a candidate for political office, that stems from trying to maintain political neutrality and not have the military involved in politics.”

“The senator’s staff was informed of the limits on what the military can do with respect to a political campaign and how we could support a senator’s visit to Landstuhl and, quite frankly, I expected them to have the visit,” Whitman said.

johnibiii.wordpress.com...

So there you have it. Straight from the Pentagon. Obama could not make political capital out of a visit to the wounded troops so he decided to play basketball and go to the gym instead.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Obama will get very little respect from the troops if he becomes CiC. And he does not deserve any.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin


And i'm not suprised that you resort to personal attacks, and off topic posting....again....

So his other half showed up...

Get your facts straight, wiggins. HAL9000 attacked many members of this board with his name calling.

Obama gave his reasons for not visiting the troops, and BH showed us those reasons, so i have to ask, why are we still discussing this as if Obama had no reason to not visit on a presidential campaign run?

Maybe because we don't believe Obama, BH, or you?

Obama tried to blame his non-visit on the Pentagon. HE LIED. Face it.

reply to post by jsobecky


I agree with you 100%. Whatever his reasons were for canceling, his campaign's attempts at blaming the military and initially saying that they denied him access is complete bunk. Their handling of it has been a political disaster, and before its all over with, its probably going to be a political disaster of epic proportions. Its all over talk radio and the internet. People are going to find out even if the MSM buries it, and ironically, as bad as it already looks, if they try bury it, we all know going to get distorted to look even worse.

Once again, this is just another situation where he could save himself a lot of grief by admitting that his campaign blew it here. He could've saved himself a lot more grief by just visiting the place to begin with. The inevitable charges that he was politicizing his visit absolutely pale in comparison to what his campaign is going to face over the next few weeks as a result of this. Oh well.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by vor78]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Obama gave his reasons for not visiting the troops, and BH showed us those reasons, so i have to ask, why are we still discussing this as if Obama had no reason to not visit on a presidential campaign run?

Which brings up another point: presidential campaign run?

What the hell is he doing campaigning in Europe and the ME?

What is he running for? Leader of the World?

reply to post by vor78


If he would have visited the troops, and then faced those who said it was for political gain, he could have answered something like this:

"You know, I don't care what people think of my motives. I visited the troops because I wanted to thank them for their sacrifice for our country. Even if I may not fully support the Iraq war, I fully respect the efforts and sacrifices our brave men and women have made for their nation."

I could have respected that. But I had little respect for him before this, and now I have absolutely no respect for him.

reply to post by jsobecky


Agreed. If he had visited, most everyone, even the partisans, would've known deep down that what he did was something that can't itself be construed as a negative. The criticism would've faded very rapidly and it would've been over.

Now? He's probably going to be facing fallout from this from now until election day. This has probably been the biggest mistake his campaign itself has made so far (not including statements and acts by his associates) and, regardless of anyone's opinion on the matter, you can bet that his detractors aren't going to let him or the public forget this incident.

With that one act, he probably destroyed any chance he had left of winning the national security vote, for the very reason you stated. The military is very likely to lose all respect for him.