China Release New Fighter. The J-10., page 5
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reply posted on 7-5-2003 @ 03:12 PM by $tranger
Originally posted by mad scientist
Aeroking

Half the facts you have stated above are completely wrong.

  • The Sabre fought the MIG-15 during the Korean war not the MIG-21.

  • Russian cruise missiles aren't the most advanced, they merely travel the fastest. However their accuracy is no where near the Tomahawk Block III.
    One Moskit could damage a carrier but it wouldn't take it out. Fleet defences are easily sufficient to take care of a few Moskit missiles. Considering they were designed to knock down mass attacks by the much faster Soviet AS-4 and AS-6 ASM's.

  • The submarine in The Hunt for Red October is not a diesel Kilo class, but a Typhoon class Russian SSBN. Anyway Kilos are 1970's techology, I believe a Chinese Kilo crew was lost just the other day.

  • Your much vaunted ' Xia ' class SSBN, is the worst design ever to go to see. Extremely noisy and dangerous to the crew. USS SSN's have tracked these submarines in the 3rd convergence ( over 150 km away). The JL-2 ( 'Great Wave') missiles they are armed with are unreliable and suffer from many technical problems.

  • You also seem to forget that while the Chicoms are producing the J-10 the US is beginning it's first production run of the F-22. A plane which could fly rings around the J-10 and Russian Sukhoi's.

  • Almost forgot your beloved Sovremmy's. If they attempted to venture into blue water they would be sunk before getting within 500 km of a CBG.



PS. It always helps to know what your talking about before you post




2, and what about all the other cruise missiles? and what if the mosquito will be equiped with the 200kt warhead?

[i dont know much about subs tho]

5.the f22 is far too much costy and wont be produced in large numbers.


6, they will probably use fishing boats with antiship missiles to overcome the usa navy


reply posted on 7-5-2003 @ 05:57 PM by Aeroking
Ah, sry about the misinformation on the Mig. It has been a long time since i enter any kind of forum like this and I got a lot messed up. Anyway, as for the Moskit. China most likely won't use a conventional warhead (nuclear is great at sea, I believe they can also use a neutron since that only blast a couple of miles). But I am pretty sure that a Moskit can do enough damage to take out a carrier, that is not saying actually sinking it but as for doing enough damage to take it out of battle and there are no defenses against it. Also, AS-4 and 6 is faster doesn’t mean it is better. I said clearly that Moskits are Mach2 and sea skimming WITH END GAME MANEUVERS that are designed to evade countermeasures and they are near impossible to jam. Anyway, even if there are defenses, I believe a target only has less than 20 ( I remember less) secs to counter it. I am sure that the U.S. cruise or at least anti-ship missile tech is at least one generation behind the Russians. The destroyers are not a defending platform! It is purely designed to start a NUCLEAR war. I never said they won’t be sunk. Their job is to fire their missiles and die. China is trying to buy two more of the destroyers which have better survivability. Also, the J-10 is a no comparison to the F-22 but I doubt many F-22 will be produce with its such high price tag. Looking at China’s production record, you will see that she cranks out jets in the thousands. Even today with obsolete J-7s and J-8s (which has been upgraded by quite a bit). China might still come out on the winning side (win as not in conquering but win a regional war). I remember reading an article some time ago that kind of proves that 2 (maybe 3) J-8s can take out 1 F-16 or F-18. This might not be great odds but you have consider how many of those jets China have (QUITE a lot). Anyway, the J-10 suits the needs of China very well since China’s main aim is to take over Taiwan and become a regional power before actually challenging the U.S. Which means that the jet won’t be facing any F-22 soon, or else they can just buy a few new Russian jets in testing stages right now. The PLA is getting a lot of money from the Chinese government. Her most likely opponents are F-16 and Mirage 2000. The J-10 is better or at least on par with those two jets. As for the subs, I am sure that it was a kilo class and I believe Kilos are newer than the 70s (not sure). The Typhoon is way bigger than a Kilo and I believe older as well. Anyway, most subs takes years to develop, just cuz it might be a bit old doesn’t mean it is bad. The F-16 has been around for quite a long time. As for the Xia, I admit that sub is a loser. But it is really a testing prototype (I don’t believe the U.S.’s first nuclear sub fared any better). There is strong evidence that China has a new sub or version of Xia that is based on Russian help. It was believed that the prototypes were undergoing sea test during the spy plane incident and that is the reason the planes are there in the first place. The main point of what I wrote is that U.S. won’t be going to war with China anytime soon and doing so might not mean the U.S. is gonna win.


reply posted on 8-5-2003 @ 04:17 AM by barba007
You might find this interesting.




The primary objective behind the Virginia class (NSSN) was to produce a submarine that offered an approximation of Seawolf performance at significantly reduced cost.
The primary sacrifices were a reduction in warload (from 52 weapons on Seawolf to 22+12 on Virginia) and being more suited to clandestant and coastal operations instead of the blue water concept of the more potent and expensive Seawolf's.
Tthe first of class will be named SSN 774 Virginia and the second SSN 775 Texas.


www.warships1.com...

These boats form the backbone of the U. S. Navy's nuclear-powered attack submarine fleet. Their primary missions are to hunt enemy submarines and surface ships, launch cruise-missile strikes on land-based targets and gather intelligence.
The final 23 submarines of the 62-ship class are known as improved 688s. These are equipped with BSY-1 combat systems, as well as retractable bow planes and hardened sails to break through ice during Arctic operations.

www.warships1.com...

Only a single boat of this class was built before it was decided to go with the larger Los Angeles class. The turbine-electric drive installed in this boat for testing purposes, limits speed to less then 30 knots submerged. This boat has now been decommissioned and scrapped.

www.warships1.com...

The single boat in this class was built to test the new S5G nuclear reactor, which uses convection currents to circulate cooling water through the reactor to the heat exchange.
She still is serving with the Atlantic Fleet as a research vessel.
She will decommission in January of 1999.

www.warships1.com...

Originally named Thresher class, this was changed after the first of the class Thresher was lost while doing test deep dives in Apr./63. These boats had an improved tear drop shape and established the basic design for all later submarines.
Designed from the start with a mission that leaned heavily towards anti-submarine warfare,this was later changed when Harpoon missiles were fitted into these boats.
They have all been discarded.

www.warships1.com...

This submarine was the only one of its kind in 1961. The Halibut had the distinction, for the U.S.N., of being the only nuclear powered submarine that was a launch platform of Regulus I and II missiles. This missile system later proved to be unsatisfactory due to improvements in ballistic missile technology.

www.warships1.com...

Triton was originally conceived as a radar picket submarine able to operate on the surface at high speed, but well ahead of a task force, to provide information concerning enemy air attack, electronic surveillance and to control fighter interception. Triton could then submerge to avoid attack and operate as a fully operational submarine.
To be able to achieve this high speed, Triton was designed with a two reactor propulsion plant (the only United States nuclear submarine ever to have been thus built), a very sharp knife-like bow and given a high reserve buoyancy.
When originally designed, Triton's reactors' output was rated at 34,000 horse power, however she achieved 45,000 horse power on sea trials, and attained a speed of over 30 knots on the surface.

www.warships1.com...

The first series production nuclear attack submarines in the US Navy. These utilized some of the technologies forged in the Nautilus and Seawolf.

www.warships1.com...

The second nuclear powered submarine in the US Navy. The Seawolf used a different reactor then the Nautilus, but this was changed to a style morelike today's submarines in the late 1950's. The Seawolf set many records for nuclear powered submarines that still stand today.

www.warships1.com...

These submarines are the first new top-to-bottom attack submarine design since the early 1960s and will be the fastest, quietest, most heavily armed undersea vessels in the world. This class performs a wide spectrum of crucial military assignments - from underneath the Arctic icepack to littoral regions anywhere in the world.
Their missions include surveillance, intelligence collection, special warfare, cruise missile strike, mine warfare, and anti-submarine and anti-surface ship warfare.

www.warships1.com...

A very successful design that every other submarine design has been compared to. They have now been succeeded by the Los Angeles class and all will be gone by 2001, except Parche which is in use as a research vessel.

www.warships1.com...

The Tullibee was a submarine with many firsts, she was was the first turbo-electric
nuclear sub, a technology that made Tullibee far and away
the quietest SSN in the world until the Lipscomb was launched many years
later. First SSN to have a bow sonar, first to have the torpedo tubes moved back to accomodate the bow sonar. She was designed for a very small crew, with lots of automation. The Thresher/Scorpion disasters forced the crew count up towards 100 making it very cramped. Her small size did make her the stealthiest boat in the world.
The design was an experimental design that really became the basis for future subs.
The "Shark fin" is in reality the PUFFS sonar that she was fitted with for tests

www.warships1.com...

The first series-produced subs with the now familiar tear drop shape. These boats utilized some of the technologies forged in the Nautilus and Seawolf.

www.warships1.com...

This submarine was the United States Navy's first operational nuclear submarine and was used as a test bed for later submarines. Many of the design features of this boat are still featured on today's high tech underseas platforms.
She has been preserved as a museum.

www.warships1.com...

A completely new design of SSBN sharing very little with the previous classes, these are the famed Trident Ballastic Missile Submarines, the largest submarines ever built for the U.S. Navy. These vessels pack more firepower then many countries.

www.warships1.com...

The first Lafayette class boats were deployed in 1963. Essentially a larger and improved version of the previous Ethan Allen class.
The James Madison class are identical except for being fitted with the longer range Polaris A-3 ballistic missile when built.
The Benjamin Franklin's were James Madison's also until the early 1980's when it was decided to upgrade these boats with a quieter propulsion system and longer range more powerful Trident C-4 missiles.

www.warships1.com...

These are in fact James Madison class SSBN's that have been modernized to carry the Trident C-4 ballistic missile and have had a quieter propulsion plant installed.
All have been removed from service, except two that were converted for special operations. These two will be decommissioned in 1999.

www.warships1.com...

Designed from the outset as missile submarines, these were well designed with very deep diving abilities and were quite quiet for their day.
Under the SALT I treaty some of these boats had their missile tubes removed and were redesignated attack submarines (SSN)

www.warships1.com...

Identical in every way to the Lafayette's and originally to be part of that class, these boats were originally fitted with the slightly longer range Polaris A-3 over the A-2 installed in the first 9 boats.
The Benjamin Franklin's were originally of this class but when they were refitted with new propulsion plants and more potent Trident C-4 missiles, their class designation was changed.

www.warships1.com...

George Washington was the US's first submarine to be armed with ballistic missiles. The navy ordered the just-begun attack submarine Scorpion (SSN 589) to be completed as a missile submarine on December 31,1957. This hull was actually cut apart to install the missile compartment. The hull was redesignated SSGN 598 and completed as George Washington.

www.warships1.com...

George Washington was the US's first submarine to be armed with ballistic missiles. The navy ordered the just-begun attack submarine Scorpion (SSN 589) to be completed as a missile submarine on December 31,1957. This hull was actually cut apart to install the missile compartment. The hull was redesignated SSGN 598 and completed as George Washington.

www.warships1.com...



[Edited on 9-5-2003 by barba007]
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