China Release New Fighter. The J-10.

The F-86 versus MIG-15 saga is an interesting one and large quantities of salt probably have to be taken with regard to both sides claims.
The US, incidentally, had far more than one squadron of Sabers.
It's also worth remembering that the F-86 entered fairly late in the conflict - the main jet previously, the F-80 was outclassed by the MIG's.
The war began largely with prop-driven planes and the US confronted jets only after the N.Koreans were aided by Rusia and China. also one needs to consider the US losses of planes other than the F-86.
The topic is an old favourite of plane-buffs and there is much to search -quite a nice little discussion board link here:
pub131.ezboard.com...

Let's not forget that the best pilots flying the Mig-15 during Korea weren't Chinese or North Korean, they were Russian. I remember a famous comment by a Sabre pilot ( after a dogfight with supposed Chinese migs ) - " I ain't never seen a red haired Chinese before "

16 Soviet pilots of the 64th Fighter Aviation Corps made ace. The highest scoring was Evgeni Pepelyaev, with 23 confirmed kills (12 F-86s, 6 F-80s, 4 F-84s, and one F-94. Most of the Soviet pilots that were sent to Korea were veterans or aces of World War II. Ivan Kozhedub, a 3-time Hero of the Soviet Union with 62 German kills to his credit, was one of those sent.The 64th was secretly sent to fight in the Korean War in Nov 1950. They did quite well, shooting down 1,300 UN aircraft of all types while losing only 345 of their own. MiG-15s piloted by Soviets outscored the F-86 guys at around 2:1. However, MiGs in the hands of North Korean and Chinese pilots were knocked down at something like 13:1 by the USAF.
There doesn't seem to be any Chinese or Korean aces.

Russian Aces in Korea

[Edited on 4-3-2003 by mad scientist]

China - 1 billion 200 million poeple

US army even wit htheir technology cannot defeat them

Originally posted by Replicator
China - 1 billion 200 million poeple

US army even wit htheir technology cannot defeat them

Yeah right so every Chinese person is going to pickup a gun and fight - GROW A BRAIN.
Dude they can't even feed themselves. Do some reading pal because obviously you no nothing about military affairs.
Your comment must have been posted 10 times in this thread, don't youn read any of the answere ?

LOL
Maybe not 1.2 Billion though the Chinese Liberation Army is the largest Single Army in the world.
Being able to mobilize 2 million troops with in a matter of days.
I'll tell you now that if the U.S. and Allies or what ever tried to invade China, they wouldn't be able to.

They need masses of men to suppliment their lack of advanced weaponry. As for invading China, I don't see why anyone would want to. The only resource they have is cheap labor.
China will probably self destruct some day anyway, it would have shattered into different states by now if it weren't for the iron yoke of communism.

No you�re right.
I saw a documentary on the CLA and combating the floods of winter, dams breaking etc.
These Army men, along with the local people had a comradeship that we could only dream.
Locals concerned were ripping these Army guys working 2 days straight with no rest, just solid work off the front line with their safety.
Locals coming out to greet these Workingmen with food, drinks etc.
Were do you see that in the civilized world?
People pull together in time of need.


[Edited on 5-3-2003 by barba007]

I commend the current discussion. Very interesting.

Now I am not as versed as you all are in this situation so bare with my response here. Im only curious and seeking some answers, knowledge and or insight.

Correct me if Im wrong but Chinas economy (or lack there of) is dependent on agriculture... which is hard to build a superpower from. However are they not moving towards cloning and isn't that how they will reach super power status? If so what does that mean in terms of comparing them to U.S. in a war? They are poor now but if in the future they become rich through cloning will this change the tide? Again... I am not versed in this I am only curious and seeking some direction. If I am in correct on anything I have said please do correct me for I desire to be set straight and for truth be told. I will appreciate any response to this so that I may understand more.

Can anyone give me a good link on the F-22?

personally it is my belief that any war with China would be a stalemate, we would decimate there Navy and Air Force, but any invasion we tried would be halted by massive manpower, and any invasion of a country we defended by them would be halted by superior technology


and stalemates between nuclear powers are not good


krossfyter I have heard about the cloning thing, i will research that

www.fas.org...

I know its been a while since i've posted but i've got some free time so why not.
U.S.- China war would end up with U.S. victory. That is if there were no allies. Men per gun in China is very slim, and then half the time they won't know how to use them. Considering that China mainly consist of an Air force and police men, you can't rule out possible take over of the country. Technology is everything these days. Plus there are countless of unknown things. Possible weapons of new. There is always a chance that the U.S. could loose but chance are very slim.

Originally posted by KKing123


krossfyter I have heard about the cloning thing, i will research that

www.fas.org...

thanx



ill await your response.

the true power of our forces will never be known until we are invaded on our own continent. almost every battle we have fought has been over seas, save the clonial wars and the civil war, but every modern war, we have had little to do on our continental US, pearl harbor was the deadliest attack by an organized gov't, sept. 11 was deadly but it wasn't by a military power. just a group of smelly old muslims.

once we are confronted in a town by town type situation, then our true power will be put to the test. no more bombing raids, or other heavy weapons, it will be urban and maybe some backland type warfare in places. if any force was ever organised that is. our greatest threat is our freedom and law helps it none. the freedoms by the constition are what will allow a group to organize and destroy this dragon in it's stomach

I think if China had some sort of new technology, they wouldn't post it on CNN.
The Chinese government controls everything including obviously New Technologies.

omg ph33r
www.sinodefence.com...

US AMRAAM missile, it has over a 90% kill probability from 50km.

look at the russian r-77 missile

but isnt china's new fighter called XXJ?

Jinchuu!

Check this out.

www.sinodefence.com...

I just found this post off Yahoo and all i see is a bunch of China vs U.S. posts. WTF! Some pips here are way too confident of the U.S. military. The U.S. might have the best military overall but there are fields, like aerospace and cruise missile tech that is lacking behind country like Russia. Russia has the most advanced cruise missles (Yakhont and Moskit) and some QUITE good planes (Su-27, Su-30 and the new Su-37 i think and there is also a new Mig). In a war with China, Russia will definitely be involved. In fact, there is a military treaty that will drag Russia into the war no matter what. Russia has traditionally been excelent in hard military and its fighter jets (Mig21) was a whole ton better than the U.S. Sabre in the Korean war. Even now, with the collapse of the U.S.S.R.. Russia still has a lot of expertise and the Su-27 is superior or at least equal to the F-16 and Su-30 in the same degree to F-18. Also, the new Russian jets should lv the playing field between U.S. and Russia (Russians military development are now funded by the PLA). The Chinese J-10 fighter is a great fighter. According to some U.S. military analyst, the J-10 is comparable to early versions of the F-18 and is a lot more agile. In fact, it is more agile than the F-16 . This is cuz the Chinese took U.S. tech and combined with the Russian Saturn engine and other components) It also have some of the most advanced radars and avionics (Israeli and Russian). As for being ugly, I don't think so, even if it is does that matter? If it can kill, no one gives a damn if it is pretty or not. As for U.S. subs taking out whatever subs the Chinese have. That is bs as well. Sure, the Los Angelas class is a VERY silent sub but the Chinese is operating the Russian Kilo class submarine which is one of the stealthiest subs in the world (there is a movie on it "Red October"). It will be VERY VERY hard to track it down. Also, the Xia class sub is VERY advance (Russian tech on it as well). It can launch ballistic missiles under the protective shield of land base fighters. The PLAN bought 2 Sovremnmy (ah the names) destroyers as well. Each carry 8 Moskit anti-ship sea skimmers. One of them can easily take out a aircraft carrier (high explosive ammunition) and the rest can wipe out the whole escort. The Moskit was DESIGNED TO TAKE OUT AEGIS and there are no ways to stop it currently (it is MACH 2, sea skimming with end maneuvers, also nuclear capable). The more advanced Yakhont is even more scary. It is faster, smaller (a ship can carry more missiles) and impossible to intercept. Anyway, the U.S. military planner won't be considering an atk on China anytime soon. They know that China is a harder nut to crack than most pips think.

Aeroking

Half the facts you have stated above are completely wrong.

• The Sabre fought the MIG-15 during the Korean war not the MIG-21.
  
  
• Russian cruise missiles aren't the most advanced, they merely travel the fastest. However their accuracy is no where near the Tomahawk Block III.
  One Moskit could damage a carrier but it wouldn't take it out. Fleet defences are easily sufficient to take care of a few Moskit missiles. Considering they were designed to knock down mass attacks by the much faster Soviet AS-4 and AS-6 ASM's.
  
  
• The submarine in The Hunt for Red October is not a diesel Kilo class, but a Typhoon class Russian SSBN. Anyway Kilos are 1970's techology, I believe a Chinese Kilo crew was lost just the other day.
  
  
• Your much vaunted ' Xia ' class SSBN, is the worst design ever to go to see. Extremely noisy and dangerous to the crew. USS SSN's have tracked these submarines in the 3rd convergence ( over 150 km away). The JL-2 ( 'Great Wave') missiles they are armed with are unreliable and suffer from many technical problems.
  
  
• You also seem to forget that while the Chicoms are producing the J-10 the US is beginning it's first production run of the F-22. A plane which could fly rings around the J-10 and Russian Sukhoi's.
  
  
• Almost forgot your beloved Sovremmy's. If they attempted to venture into blue water they would be sunk before getting within 500 km of a CBG.
  
  

PS. It always helps to know what your talking about before you post