quote: Originally posted by guyverseven
As a Taiwanese, here is my opinon on the topic:

1) If reunification is a must, then you, china, had better believe that you have to reform to a similar system to Taiwan or the United States. NOBODY is going to block google.com from me. NOBODY is going to take away my home and then build a dam or olympic stadium on top of it to only pay me 100 RMB as compensation. NOBODY is going to shoot me in the head or jail me for 10 years for speaking ill about the goverment. I can stand right here in Taiwan and say "I hate Chen Sui Bian" and I WILL NOT be arrested. That is FREEDOM.

I am not against Re-unification. I am against Re-unification with an Authoritarian government.

2) In the posts I often read: Well, let the chinese people all vote. That gives China the majority 98% Yes on reunification. DUH. Well, how about this? Since chinese in china cannot vote for their president, hell, they can't even vote in a beauty pagent most likely, why don't you let the people of Taiwan vote. Hmmm.... Novel idea. Afterall, we are already use to the "process" of voting. We don't want to teach ALL chinese people "what" voting is and "how" to do it. Takes too much time and under the Authoritarian government, they wouldn't understand the concept.

3) You claim that you are liberating us? From what?! Are you people mentally capable of fathoming the fact that people on Taiwan are HAPPY??? We are not kept in a "cage" as china calls it, like prisoners. Hell, people from CHINA are trying to emmigrate TO TAIWAN. There is a waiting LIST! Now, I don't know what kind of cage that is but sure sounds like a good one to be in if people in china are trying to emmigrate to "the cage." Maybe we have some fun stuff over here huh? You bet. We can start with freedom of speech.

4) Many chinese deny that Taiwan has a "government." Okay, I don't want to argue with cretins so I'll call the "goverment" a "bunch of people running around." Now the "bunch of people running around" have created one of the most prosperous economies not to mention democracy in Asia. The envy of many Asian neighbors. For a "bunch of people running around" on a small island, I would say, that's not bad at all.

5) You say you want to reunify peacefully yet you shoot missles over our heads. Hmmmm..... Don't have to be socrates or a rocket scientist to know that a "threat missle" is mutually exclusive to peace.

6) I have heard the "Let China take Taiwan" argument. Who cares? It doesn't affect me! You will when you go to your local U.S. Best Buy to purchase electronics and that $600.00 HP computer is suddenly $4,000.00. Why? Oh because Taiwan manufactures the majority of computer components for Televisions, Electronics in general and Computers. So why is the computer so much?! Well, the factory that makes the motherboard has been bombed. Thus, they can't ship the motherboards to HP. Thus, HP doesn't know when they can complete production of the comptuers so the ones that are out now, we'll just jack up the price. Don't get me started on LCD, Plasmas, Digital Cameras, etc... Sony, GE, Toshiba, Samsung, whatever, they all have components from Taiwan. Oh and if the Taiex (Taiwan stock exchange) goes down, that WILL affect the economies of the world. One thing Americans hate is HIGH PRICES, like the rest of the free world.

Enough ranting... I'm going to get on google.com to search for stuff.... can you do that? If you can, your not in China =)

Oh by the way the PRC BANNED doreamon... HAHA a cute little cartoon featuring a blue robotic cat with a propellor on his head. It's EVIL. HAHAHAH. Time for the Chairman Mao's learning hour children. Featuring.... The dancing little red book! Yeah!!!

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1)We get arrested for saying some government official is stupid? I have said it in front of a police and they did nothing.

2)Block google? I use google everyday my freaking god

3)Take away your home? where are your facts? My cousin live in the place where they will build the Olympic village, they built many MANY condominiums else where and gave them a house to them as compensation. Don't talk about China if you don't know it ok?

4)Liberating? Taiwan IS CHINA!! It can never be changed. I bet millions of you have relatives in China. I have like ten Taiwan friends. They don't like Chenshuibian. they said Chenshuibian=War

5)Reunification is only a matter of time believe me. 80% of your rich people have already moved to Shanhai or one of the supercities because they know with Chenshuibian as president, its only a matter of time until war.

6)You technically DOn't EXIST because UN does not acknoledge (forgive me for my spelling)you.

7)Hey about the missiles. We don't aim there for no reason. With the current 600 billion TWD military purchase and the anti radar missiles WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO AIM AT YOU.

8)And about the high tech things, all the major companies are transferring to mainland because of fear of war and raising mancosts so 600 dollar computer for 2000 dollars? You crazy? you'll be lucky if the price doesn't drop.

9)Doreamon? DoreaMON? THAT WAS THE FREAKING CARTOON I WATCHED WHEN I WAS GROWING UP!! Please, don't be stupid.

10)TAIWAN IS CHINA! WE HAVE EVERYRIGHT TO BUY HOUSES AND LIVE IN TAIWAN OK?????

I have heard of a fourty percent layoff rate if you declare independance because you are economically tied to China. Your answer to that?

[edit on 28-10-2004 by COWlan]

[edit on 28-10-2004 by COWlan]


[edit on 28-10-2004 by COWlan]

The Chinese will never get air superority, Germany tried it,Japan did to and look what happen to them. Russia could but won't and tiawan is just tryiny to stay alive with the hope of freedom. We give them our old destoyers and other equipment under the table, and they keep afloat. I feel that we are the keeper of the peace and we try to do what we can for other countries and even though everybody owes US money that we will never see the US doesn't ask them for the money they owe us. We are suckers for everybody. Sorry people but the truth is the truth. Area51, Loon Lake are for the USA to protect it's territory, People can think what they want on all these topics,but face the truth aliens aren't real,space ships are government made with material from space. I know to much to let it all out, pilots who have worked there got scared and left because it was a death trap for themor others.

everybody owes US money that we will never see the US doesn't ask them for the money they owe us. We are suckers for everybody.

Oh how wrong you are, I fully expect someone to give you a very detailed dressing down as soon as they see this silly comment. BTW the UK for one owes you nothing other than loyalty and friendship, which we are happy to give.

following the post, talking about taiwan.

taiwan's economy is as vulnerable as a light bulb, you hit it hard with hammer, it breaks, like in war; you shut off its electricity for a day, its stock market will crash in a blink, it has a poor agriculture and the money is made on electronics and bulk CDs, no heavy industry, it can not perform like a country. It needs a backbone, that is China, not USA, believe or not, Taiwanese will never deserve as much respect than Japanese as watchdogs of US in Asia, trust me, and Japan's economy is very much influenced by US and expand relentlessly, Japanese relies on other countries to import their products, and US have military base is there, you know what happens if US shut off Japan's imports and exports; Tokyo and other big cities real estate price has been sky rocketing, and please check out the bosses behind the curtain: Wall Streets, exactly what they did to Italian indigenous estate owners years ago: crash the business with loads of money, buy in and sell high; Taiwan deserves better.

Read the exports report from Taiwan, you will see how much China has purchased from Taiwan, the trade is beneficial for both sides, so it is good, however, China can live without Taiwan if things get bad, interesting thing is, taiwanese is using that money to buy off-age weapons from US, what an interesting logic, if it is called logic at all, maybe it is just hard to realize how an ant could fight with an elephant, PRC is founded while being weaker than any others, how could you threat it when it is strong? I don't know what President Chen is thinking.

But from another point of view, China gets taiwan for the protection, from US, so that US won't have a huge carrier in front of Chinese's doors, Taiwan gets much better radio signals than japan too. Either way, Taiwan won't get better part of any of the two superpowered, it is being played either way because it is small and powerless. China is trying to make a peace transition, don't make it hard, remember that either China nor US will fight on their soil, because they don't want 200 or 2000 multiheaded nukes on their land, but battle on Taiwan and taiwan people are the only ones who are suffering.

China's navy is weak and airforce is even weaker, but the army is probably the best in the world both in quantity and in quality. Did you know that the Chinese army's ancient mortar team can make 70%+ hit by analog control? don't even mention the new missiles...

China best army inthe world? Where did you get from? I mean which information source? And wots this mortar by analog control?
All mortar are analog

One young aero-engineer in ShenYang aircraft corporation told the journalist that there do have one "big" project joint developed with ChengDu is working in process. When was asked whether it's something j-13/14 which make friend with F-22, he said:"what i can say is, now we have the ability to copy anything, everything. it's not difficult to rebuild the structure of an aircraft-for example F22- once u have the outline dimensions. Now we don't want to just copy, we are modifying and enhancing. that's all."

links? u2u.

Originally posted by Daedalus3
China best army inthe world? Where did you get from? I mean which information source? And wots this mortar by analog control?
All mortar are analog

check infantry, tank, artillery, missile development information, do some research, of course mortars are analog, I am saying the success rate.

i didn't find it in encyclopedia for sure.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by plutonian]

Originally posted by lmairforce
One young aero-engineer in ShenYang aircraft corporation told the journalist that there do have one "big" project joint developed with ChengDu is working in process. When was asked whether it's something j-13/14 which make friend with F-22, he said:"what i can say is, now we have the ability to copy anything, everything. it's not difficult to rebuild the structure of an aircraft-for example F22- once u have the outline dimensions. Now we don't want to just copy, we are modifying and enhancing. that's all."

links? u2u.

Young engineers have a reputaiotn of being as patriotically blinded as military youth. Ask me Im a 'young' engineer!!

So now the chinese can build the F-22, F-117 etc etc..?

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Young engineers have a reputaiotn of being as patriotically blinded as military youth. Ask me Im a 'young' engineer!!

So now the chinese can build the F-22, F-117 etc etc..?

not the whole plane, at least not the vector engine and electronics, but exclude those, what else makes it a good plane?

the chinese airforce could have a chance of winning if they manage to make a radio silence combat area over 7000 square miles and dog fight with vast amount of J-7s and J-6s used as auto-pilot multiheaded suicide missiles.

Young engineers have a reputaiotn of being as patriotically blinded as military youth. Ask me Im a 'young' engineer!!

So now the chinese can build the F-22, F-117 etc etc..?

No doubt they can! Ask Lockheed Martin Aeronautics and Pratt & Whitney to transfer the manufacturing lines to China (Shen Yang suggested), then both sides of USA and China will get benefits from it. USAF will deploy raptor cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, more and more and more. Due to the low labor cost and rich of raw materials, China would offer an aweful price to USAF, 0.53m /unit, and buy 3 get 2 free. Imagine 2 or 3 thousand raptors dancing in the sky of USA what the scene it will be.

^^^No fair!! We Indians want a chunk of the goodstuff too!!

Originally posted by plutonian

the chinese airforce could have a chance of winning if they manage to make a radio silence combat area over 7000 square miles and dog fight with vast amount of J-7s and J-6s used as auto-pilot multiheaded suicide missiles.

I don't understand this radio silence 7000 sq miles bit. Ive read about it somewhere else also but I don't get the strategy, its aims and methods of implementation. Care to elaborate?

Also radio silence and auto-piloted aircraft is somewhat of a paradox right?


UCAV ground control IMHO should be easily overidden with a simple jammer/capture signal method currently at least right?

it is a radio frequency jammer net within the combat air space, what else? you won't talk or see anything on radar, I am not sure about B-2 spirit, since it is way up high and strong signals.

good point about the autopilot and silence contradiction, Chinese might thought so too, so they will keep a few channels open.
J-6 is useless in air either way, just trying to hit some ships i guess, 3 or 4 waves of 200-300 airplanes is a pain.

UCAV is still under development I think, although the US has some as camera toys in the sky. It will be nice to see the true UCAV deployed, then US can fight all the way it wanted, (industrial accident, malfunction, hostile identification, being atk, etc) because the computer could not be wrong.

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by plutonian

the chinese airforce could have a chance of winning if they manage to make a radio silence combat area over 7000 square miles and dog fight with vast amount of J-7s and J-6s used as auto-pilot multiheaded suicide missiles.

I don't understand this radio silence 7000 sq miles bit. Ive read about it somewhere else also but I don't get the strategy, its aims and methods of implementation. Care to elaborate?

Also radio silence and auto-piloted aircraft is somewhat of a paradox right?


UCAV ground control IMHO should be easily overidden with a simple jammer/capture signal method currently at least right?

Wow, must have a low wing loading..

Originally posted by Estragon


It shoudln't be too bad a plane if it's ever produced: Russian power-plants inside a Sino-Israeli (i.e. stolen from the US) airframe. F-16-ish, perhaps.

from a single example provided by the pakistanis.

Originally posted by Serg
quote]Originally posted by Estragon


It shoudln't be too bad a plane if it's ever produced: Russian power-plants inside a Sino-Israeli (i.e. stolen from the US) airframe. F-16-ish, perhaps.

[
from a single example provided by the pakistanis.


Now why didn't the US foresee that!!??!!

The twin engine J-10C will have stealth features more advanced than the F-35 but less advanced than the Raptor. It is now under developement and have became a major competitor for the 5 generation Chinese fighter with the J-12 and the J-13. J-12 and J-13 are two different models with different features but serve the same purpose much like the the F-22 and the other American aircraft with 23 in its name which lost in competition with the F-22.

Originally posted by COWlan
The twin engine J-10C will have stealth features more advanced than the F-35 but less advanced than the Raptor. It is now under developement and have became a major competitor for the 5 generation Chinese fighter with the J-12 and the J-13. J-12 and J-13 are two different models with different features but serve the same purpose much like the the F-22 and the other American aircraft with 23 in its name which lost in competition with the F-22.

They're dreaming

Show me the links please