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China Release New Fighter. The J-10.

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posted on Sep, 8 2003 @ 12:46 PM
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taiwan is pretty small isn't it? y can't china just level bombard with their mass airforce with napalm or sumthin?




posted on Dec, 16 2003 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by $tranger
russian tanks numbers:

PT-76 - 1100 units.
T-54/T-55 - 10000 units .
T-62 - 8000 units.
T-64 - 4000 units.
T-72 - 9000 units.
T-80 - about 5000 units.
T-90 on low production.


Agghh...I don't even know where to begin with this thread...but I thought here would be as good a place as any.

Please, please...PAHHLEEZ let the Chinese, in a theoretical conflict with the United States, field '54's, '62's or '64's...Short of running over CIVILIANS in Tianamen's Square, the only thing they'd be good for is giving U.S. Tankers a whole lot of practice and satisfaction.

Unless you were to strap explosives to every single T-55 the Chinese own and run them willy-nilly at a brigade of M1-A1(2)'s, there wouldn't be a single scratched fender.

We've seen how well '64's and even '72's fare against truly modern equipment. Even the M3 Bradley's the U.S. deployed to Iraq were titans in the field against '72's. The DU shells on the bushmaster chain-gun mowed through them. The reactive/ablative armor added to the BV variants would provide a moderate improvement, at best.

------

Someone else on this thread mentioned Russia's "automatic" involvement in a confrontation between the U.S. and China? What freaking treaty are you referencing? If you are referring to the Sino-Russian Treaty, then you're flat out wrong. That only ensures mutual cooperation and pledges to not aim nukes at each other. It is not a mutual-defense treaty.

-----

No one is doubting that superiority in numbers is an imposing arguement. "1,200,000,000 to 225,000,000" was someone's statement in this thread. So what? The Chinese have the largest army in the world, topping 2 million. So what? What do they use them for? As someone else in this thread pointed out, they clear flooded out areas and help in reconstruction during natural disasters.

Does China have a tried and true logistical system in the event they have to coordinate all 2 million soldiers?

Does China have an effective fighting force, despite their numbers? Conscription, regardless of number never makes a reliable, high-morale military unit.

Xerxes brought one million men to bear against 100 mighty Spartans and died upon the rocks at Thermopolae... because they believed that numbers mattered more than skill, bravery and knowledge.

Would the U.S. be alone in a conflict against China? In the event of Chinese hostilities towards the U.S., the PLA would find themselves beset on all sides by other countries wanted to take a piece out of a Chinese pie.

More importantly, why in the hell would this "inevitable" conflict take place? The Chinese make billions off of the U.S., their number one importer. Who in the world would shoot a cash cow in the mouth?
There is no reason for war, short of just having it for the sake of killling off in order to kill off a few million in extraneous population.

----

Someone also spouted off about the Moskit missiles or the (properly spelled) Sovremennyy class destroyers or the Kilo class subs. Is it THAT surprising to you that the Chinese have made improvements in their military hardware? Mediocre improvements on the tech from other countries and reverse engineering of stolen assets does not mean the Chinese have miraculously moved into Super-Powerdom.

For God's sake, they have 2 freaking Sovremennyy destroyers and 4 total Kilo (improved included) submarines. The U.S. not only knows of these assets, they can count them on two hands.

So what if they can arm them with Neutron warheads? A satellite tracks when it leaves and which direction it's going, a U.S. carrier group in the theater moves to that general vicinity and launches F-18 sorties until they fix and destroy it. Can't launch a neutron Moskit from the bottom of the ocean. The subs, which are noisier than than my girlfriend after a half-dozen drinks, you can bet are constantly tracked by the U.S. Navy, undoubtedly without their knowledge.

As I said, the U.S. knows of these assets and where they are or you wouldn't. U.S. doctrine prioritizes targets and you can bet the most lethal are at the top of the list.

-----

And by the way....greetings. I'm new to the boards. I love the website. Despite some ramblings, it's very entertaining and educational.

------



posted on Dec, 17 2003 @ 10:45 AM
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But Chinese will not make aircraft of quanitity similar to Eurofighter. 10% of mass produced J-10 will have too much malfunctions to fly and rest will have much more in-flight malfunctions than US or european fighters. And their damage resistance will be not too large. I heard that a F-15E survived a direct hit of sidewinder that ripped of a wing and F-15 landed. i think that J-10 will rip to pieces after hitting by some shrapnells or few machinegun or cannon rounds

[Edited on 20-12-2003 by AdamS]

[Edited on 20-12-2003 by AdamS]



posted on Dec, 17 2003 @ 10:52 AM
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Chinese army isnt too much trained and have equipment that should lie in junkyard. In WWII germans have fighted against much greater number superiority. On a part of front, german force of 28,000 infantry, 36 Tigers and 20 Panthers holded 600,000 soviet infantry and seven armor divisions. I think that US could do more against Chinese. Quality can fight number superior very good. Ant between China and USA is Pacific ocen. And US Navy is much better than Chinese, and here Chinese dont have so large superiority in numbers.

[Edited on 20-12-2003 by AdamS]



posted on Dec, 23 2003 @ 04:05 PM
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go to:
www.fas.org...
to find more information about the J-10.



posted on Dec, 30 2003 @ 07:58 AM
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China and USA,two nuclear superpower,in near future,even if China going to 'liberate' Taiwan one day(Taiwan is just too near to the China).But a small degree/secret military conflict(test water like) is more possible.A 'Korean War 2' or 'Vietnam War 2' is becoming more inevitable.
As we know,Nude-capability of destroy the world one time is equal to ten times when comes to the consequence.China's successful launch of its first Manned Spacecraft this year means it can drop bombs on American more easier now.
We should realize that J-10 itself is not a good fighter compare to F22 or Eurofighter though not that bad as someone said,and more important is that China is catching up,now-how,technology,experience,economy...so on.Mass-production is another headache and the cost of J-10 is merely 10 million.
It is not wise to wage a war against each other,whoever Iraq ,Nk,but for our Nation's sake.
And some small groups of terrists already make the world's sole-Policeman mad,what you can expect when the Red Army battle with US Army,who never win wherever in Nk or Vietnam.
Just Hope there will never have a war between US and China.We just can't afford to lose our nationals.

[Edited on 30-12-2003 by omkao]

[Edited on 30-12-2003 by omkao]

[Edited on 30-12-2003 by omkao]



posted on Dec, 30 2003 @ 08:27 AM
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I 'd better give a small Q:After World war Second,Does US really wage a real war against a real country?We should realize that a real war is completely different with the CNN Living SHOW.

[Edited on 30-12-2003 by omkao]



posted on Jan, 4 2004 @ 05:13 PM
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doesn't look too....stealthy



posted on Jan, 4 2004 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by omkao
China and USA,two nuclear superpower,in near future,even if China going to 'liberate' Taiwan one day(Taiwan is just too near to the China).But a small degree/secret military conflict(test water like) is more possible.A 'Korean War 2' or 'Vietnam War 2' is becoming more inevitable.
As we know,Nude-capability of destroy the world one time is equal to ten times when comes to the consequence.China's successful launch of its first Manned Spacecraft this year means it can drop bombs on American more easier now.
We should realize that J-10 itself is not a good fighter compare to F22 or Eurofighter though not that bad as someone said,and more important is that China is catching up,now-how,technology,experience,economy...so on.Mass-production is another headache and the cost of J-10 is merely 10 million.
It is not wise to wage a war against each other,whoever Iraq ,Nk,but for our Nation's sake.
And some small groups of terrists already make the world's sole-Policeman mad,what you can expect when the Red Army battle with US Army,who never win wherever in Nk or Vietnam.
Just Hope there will never have a war between US and China.We just can't afford to lose our nationals.

[Edited on 30-12-2003 by omkao]

[Edited on 30-12-2003 by omkao]

[Edited on 30-12-2003 by omkao]


neither side won in korea or vietnam, it was a tie basically, the red army was whooped in afghanistan by the cia and american trained rebels if you wanna use that argument about being whipped by chinese and soviet armies, if the UN(which the top military commander was a soviet general) hadnt tied our hands and made us back off bombing chinese dams and other areas by north korea we wouldve cut north korea off and chinese supply lines and we wouldve had your commie asses running home and we wouldve kicked north koreas ass, also in vietnam we were losing to self trained vietcong and not russia or chinese armies(sure they assisted in air defense and such but we werent losing in that arena of fighting even though we had heavy losses).



posted on Jan, 8 2004 @ 06:33 PM
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go to: www.aeronautics.ru... for a lot of information about the J-10A.



posted on Jan, 11 2004 @ 09:59 AM
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I am new from Europe(the netherlands),

Personaly i don't think an war with china would ever happen.there is not an dictator in china in charge right ?,with the chineze you can talk normal with the russians you also can talk normal so war is unlikly,but if it where ever happens an war with China it will be huge but i still think U.S wil win..coz Air suprimacy is the key for winning an war in just a couple of years from now the F-22 will be in the U.S army and we all know that plain beat all the others for some decades
, but indeed perhaps the chineze can make lots of J-10 than in they might outnumber the F-22 plaines ,i think U.S should build lot more 1500+ ,but i think eventualy it will happen.(.probably U.S needs again an slap in the face first),U.S is a little growing lacks on air supromacy, air dominace is the most imprtant thing in an war whithout air dominance ,"nothing else works" ,

500 F-22 against ,1500 J-10 , i dunno what would happen lucky the F-22 can not be detected ,but perhaps in dogfitts lots of F-22 wil be lost ,i dunno....

1 question:
and how about the JSF ,this plain will be produced in more numbers is it good enough to fight & win against , SU37 and J-10 ??? .

BUT also an verry crusial point if U.S ever have to wage an war against the Chineze..U.S will not go alone...theire closest allies (i quess),England and Australia) will absolutly be on the side of the U.S and lots of Europian nations also The Netherlands,Spain,Italy ,Norway,scohland,Ireland ,
Sweden ,etc etc.

France &Germany , devided a little from the usa coz of the Irak war but hey they are after all in the Navo so very lilkly they will standing behind the U.S ,

So that is an huge huge coalition all these fighter plains would kick the chinese airforce out of the sky.
and after you dominate the AIR , you can easy destroy all the chinese TANKS and how much tanks or ground troops they have is irrlevant ,if you dominate the sky!
from the sky you could track them down & attack & destroy them...
and
I think Europe need to get one day an slap in the face (how sad it is...but its neccasery
),coz we have grown way to lacks,we should build huge airforces & millatary equipment we can afford it so i don't understand it why we don't,. Airforce is the most important thing in an war ofcourse also war ships and plain carriers are important without them you can't deploy them . ,

greetzz to all people !
& excuse me for mine English i know its not 100%.

[Edited on 11-1-2004 by Robindutch]



posted on Jan, 11 2004 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by Robindutch
I am new from Europe(the netherlands),

Personaly i don't think an war with china would ever happen.there is not an dictator in china in charge right ?,with the chineze you can talk normal with the russians you also can talk normal so war is unlikly,but if it where ever happens an war with China it will be huge but i still think U.S wil win..coz Air suprimacy is the key for winning an war in just a couple of years from now the F-22 will be in the U.S army and we all know that plain beat all the others for some decades
, but indeed perhaps the chineze can make lots of J-10 than in they might outnumber the F-22 plaines ,i think U.S should build lot more 1500+ ,but i think eventualy it will happen.(.probably U.S needs again an slap in the face first),U.S is a little growing lacks on air supromacy, air dominace is the most imprtant thing in an war whithout air dominance ,"nothing else works" ,

500 F-22 against ,1500 J-10 , i dunno what would happen lucky the F-22 can not be detected ,but perhaps in dogfitts lots of F-22 wil be lost ,i dunno....

1 question:
and how about the JSF ,this plain will be produced in more numbers is it good enough to fight & win against , SU37 and J-10 ??? .

BUT also an verry crusial point if U.S ever have to wage an war against the Chineze..U.S will not go alone...theire closest allies (i quess),England and Australia) will absolutly be on the side of the U.S and lots of Europian nations also The Netherlands,Spain,Italy ,Norway,scohland,Ireland ,
Sweden ,etc etc.

France &Germany , devided a little from the usa coz of the Irak war but hey they are after all in the Navo so very lilkly they will standing behind the U.S ,

So that is an huge huge coalition all these fighter plains would kick the chinese airforce out of the sky.
and after you dominate the AIR , you can easy destroy all the chinese TANKS and how much tanks or ground troops they have is irrlevant ,if you dominate the sky!
from the sky you could track them down & attack & destroy them...
and
I think Europe need to get one day an slap in the face (how sad it is...but its neccasery
),coz we have grown way to lacks,we should build huge airforces & millatary equipment we can afford it so i don't understand it why we don't,. Airforce is the most important thing in an war ofcourse also war ships and plain carriers are important without them you can't deploy them . ,

greetzz to all people !
& excuse me for mine English i know its not 100%.

[Edited on 11-1-2004 by Robindutch]



Mr.Robin,who from europe,must remember what the Nazi did to the England,which survivied from bombs..Just a English Channel,blocked the Nazi germany,which had huge numbers of better fighters.



posted on Jan, 11 2004 @ 02:01 PM
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I am from Mainland China. I found this intereting discussion when I googled "J-10, China".

We don't want to go into a war with the US anywhere in the world because we want to live peacefully and concentrate on economic development. Also because we stand no chance of a win (or even a stalemate) in a conventional war with world's only superpower, save probably on our own soil. What about a nuclear war? No, we don't want that, too. I am sure the US will be able bomb level our land, while we are unable to do the same to the US. But I guess the Americans don't want that either, because it takes only one submarine or two that shall survive the first strike to bomb the US into a 2nd or 3rd rate country.

So let's live happily on this globe together. Hell why not?



posted on Jan, 11 2004 @ 02:40 PM
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We have always regarded Taiwan as one of our provinces. Taiwan has now its own government, army and everything. All that the people and government of the mainland want is to reunify Taiwan peacefully. Under "one China, two system" policy, like what is being exercised in Hong Kong and Makau now, Taiwan when rejoin its old family will have its own democracy, governor elected by the Taiwanese, army, police force etc, and thus will de facto remain unchanged for centuries to come.

The president of Taiwan, Mr Shui-Bian Chen, has been constantly pushing Beijing by frequentlly re-interpreting what Beijing and Washington and a good part of the rest of the world has long agreed, ie, there is only one China and Taiwan is but a province of it. This is just a trick he uses to gain more votes in the coming election, but this has put the 23 million Taiwanese at risk of a war. Mr Chen has also misportrayed Mainland China to his people and to the rest of world as a corrupted place under cruel dictatorship. But one thing to note is that Mr Chen's fortune has multiplied since his coming to power.

I, as well as most mainlanders I beieve, sincerely hope that Taiwan shall maintain its status quo and desire no war against the Taiwanese, who speak the same language, appreciate the same culture and have the same blood as us. We will do our best to ensure Taiwan's peaceful come-back when time is right. On this we will have full patience and confidence.

I also hope peoples from other parts of the world, especially from the West, understand us: no war, unless really pushed.



posted on Jan, 11 2004 @ 04:06 PM
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Back to the topic...

J-10, according to my google research, is far from a development of Israeli "Lavi". It has a rather different aerodynamic design: different form of delta wing, different air intake, different shape and position of the canards (larger and movable). It looks more like a Mig 1.41. Significantly, J-10 has a substantially more powerful engine than any other delta-wing fighter in service. J-10 also has a Zhuk radar acquired from Russia.

In fact today's J-10 is most likely a transitional model, serving as a prototype in China's development of future air superiority, bomber, and on-carrier fighters.



posted on Jan, 11 2004 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by omkao

Originally posted by Robindutch
I.

[Edited on 11-1-2004 by Robindutch]



Mr.Robin,who from europe,must remember what the Nazi did to the England,which survivied from bombs..Just a English Channel,blocked the Nazi germany,which had huge numbers of better fighters.



Yeah you have got an point ,but you also have to be aware that the bombs got bigger(Daisy cutter ,Moab ,5000 pounders) and also the bomber plains carry much more bombs an B-1 and B-2 bombers can carry an hell lots of bombs...thats one thing for sure...

[Edited on 12-1-2004 by Robindutch]


Nik

posted on Jan, 22 2004 @ 09:07 AM
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The J-10 structer looks obselete... No Stealth characterisitics what so ever, and yeah it looks like a female falcon got it off with a male eurofighter and offspringed a J-10.

And yes, the F/A-22 is the most advanced fighter in the world. But only from what we know. Remember, America like to show off there weaponary. Russians dont, so who knows what Russia have kept secret, and if Russia were smart, they would ask China to fund the Mig-35 project and form a joint program in the MiG-35 production.



posted on Feb, 20 2004 @ 07:46 AM
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They can research and build all that they want. It may make me sound cocky, but I don't think that they'll ever cause any REAL compitition for the US.



posted on Feb, 20 2004 @ 04:14 PM
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I wouldnt waste my time on this subject beccause China is bluffing. There would never be a war between the us and china becasuse both would be severily wounded enconomically. this would reverberate around the entire world and lead to another stone age. in strategy, the us and china take different approaches that are just as effective. dont continue argueing its just a waste of time



posted on Feb, 20 2004 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by projectgeneva
They can research and build all that they want. It may make me sound cocky, but I don't think that they'll ever cause any REAL compitition for the US.


The US can't defeat Iraq with no army, so how would they fare against China? I wouldn't fancy their chances!



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