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Where were the victims in Shanksville buried?

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Topic started on 24-7-2008 @ 02:58 PM by cbass

I am truely sorry if this has been discussed before but,
as I sit here with the chinstrap of the newest model of tinfoil hat offered by ACME called the "T.F.H.2000" sinched a little too tight I wonder,

Where were the bodies/remains of all/any of the victims buried on the fateful day of September 11,2001?
More specifically the victims in Shanksville. It may be that I havn't payed enough attention to the whole affair but my curiosity is an honest one.
I have never heard it mentioned before. I have never seen interviews from the family members. I have never heard of the hundreds of funerals that should have taken place. Certainly there were SOME remains of at least ONE of the passengers.We give full funerals and burials to soldiers if all that is found is a finger and a tooth. Am I to understand that not one single bone fragment, was ever found or have I missed something?

And, what of the luggage? Again I am honestly asking, what became of the personal belongings of these passengers? Certainly there was a toothbrush or pocket comb found that belonged to someone. I have never heard of the family members claiming their loved ones belongings after Sept,11. Am I to understand that there was absolutley NO luggage found?
That EVERYTHING got TOTALLY vaporized in a plane crash?

This is bugging me and my questions are not rhetorical. I honestly need someone to shed some light on this for me or point me to a thread which will.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by cbass]

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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 04:58 PM by cbass

Anyone at all?
Is it that stupid of a question? Ohh I feel silly.
The answer may be obvious to everyone else but it isn't to me. I suppose I am just dense.
Has there ever been a funeral for any of the victims in Shanksville?
What were their families told?
I mean there would have to be skeletal remains even in a plane crash wouldn't there? Damn that fire must've been HOT!

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 05:09 PM by ziggystar60

reply to post by cbass

I don't think it's a stupid question at all. I have wondered about the same thing, so I hope you will get an answer.

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 05:24 PM by GoldenFleece

Maybe they're with the passengers they never found at the Pentagon?

[Coroner Wally] Miller was among the very first to arrive after 10:06 on the magnificently sunny morning of September 11. He was stunned at how small the smoking crater looked, he says, "like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash into it." Once he was able to absorb the scene, Miller says, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there. It became like a giant funeral service."

...Immediately after the crash, the seeming absence of human remains led the mind of coroner Wally Miller to a surreal fantasy: that Flight 93 had somehow stopped in mid-flight and discharged all of its passengers before crashing. "There was just nothing visible," he says. "It was the strangest feeling." It would be nearly an hour before Miller came upon his first trace of a body part. The emotionally wrenching impact of what happened to the bodies caused Miller to resolve to seek out and talk personally to every one of the victims' families.

www.washingtonpost.com...

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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 07:20 PM by ThroatYogurt

reply to post by cbass

Every passenger from flight 93 was identified through dental records or DNA.

This does not mean all of the remains were removed from the crash site.

If you would like sources, I will be happy to give them to you.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 07:59 PM by argentus

Cheers and kudos. I think it's an excellent question. I've been asking on this site since I came here......... IF they didn't crash in Shanksville, where did they go??? If they were shot down, there should still be a certain amount of remains. I personally believe that the passengers stormed the cockpit, and struggled for control of the plane, and it was subsequently shot down before impact. I am open to learning/changing my opinion, etc.

But you cut through to the heart of the question. Where were the remains, the effects of humanness interred? It seems on the surface of the question, a rerun of other Shanksville threads, but I maintain that you approach it from a new, and somewhat telling, point of view.

Good thread. Thank you

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 08:12 PM by Jeff Riff

Maybe the plane was shot down and the remains were scattered across the field....Maybe they were flown over the ocean and shot down....we dont know

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 08:26 PM by ThroatYogurt

DNA from ALL Passengers have been identified

Flight 93 victim identification long, arduous

A licked stamp. A used razor blade. A forgotten toothbrush left out of its owner's suitcase.

All over the world, these and other equally mundane items are being sought and retrieved from the desks, dressers and medicine cabinets of the people who were aboard United Flight 93 when it crashed into a Somerset County hilltop two weeks ago.

Those items will end up in Rockville, Md., at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology's DNA-identification laboratory -- arguably the best in the nation at analyzing and matching DNA samples. Experts will attempt to match genetic material left behind on those items with DNA found in human remains recovered at the crash scene.

DNA comparison is just one of several techniques to be used by members of the federal Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team, which is charged with recovering and identifying the remains of Flight 93's passengers, crew members and hijackers. All 44 people who were on board died in the crash.

www.post-gazette.com...

Hallowed Ground

As coroner, responsible for returning human remains, Miller has been forced to share with the families information that is unimaginable. As he clinically recounts to them, holding back very few details, the 33 passengers, seven crew and four hijackers together weighed roughly 7,000 pounds. They were essentially cremated together upon impact. Hundreds of searchers who climbed the hemlocks and combed the woods for weeks were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue totaling less than 600 pounds, or about 8 percent of the total.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Four Flight 93 victims identified

SHANKSVILLE, Pa. -- Investigators have identified remains of four of the 44 people aboard Flight 93, the jetliner that crashed here 11 days ago, the Somerset County coroner said yesterday.

www.post-gazette.com...

Coroner identifies seven more victims of Flight 93 crash

Seven victims of the Sept. 11 United Airlines Flight 93 crash in Somerset County were positively identified over the weekend, bringing the number of identified bodies to 11.

www.post-gazette.com...

4 more Flight 93 passengers identified

The Somerset County coroner said yesterday that officials have now identified the remains of 16 of the 44 passengers aboard United Airlines Flight 93, the plane that crashed into a former strip mine in rural Stonycreek Sept. 11.

The addition of four names to the list came through DNA sampling -- the first DNA matches made in the identification of remains, Coroner Wallace Miller said yesterday.

www.post-gazette.com...

Another 14 victims of Flight 93 identified

Investigators have positively identified the remains of another 14 persons aboard United Airlines Flight 93 and Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller said the investigation could conclude more quickly than expected.

www.post-gazette.com...

All Identified

The coroner's assessment came yesterday as he confirmed that the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory has used DNA samples to match recovered remains with the last of 40 crew members and passengers aboard the hijacked jetliner 14 weeks ago when it slammed into a recovered strip mine at around 500 mph.

www.post-gazette.com...

Anyone interested in who was involved in the identification process:

Paul Sledzik, Curator Armed Forces Institute of Pathology National Museum of Health and Medicine
Leader of flight 93 Disaster Mortuary (Team DMORT) Email: sledzik@email.afip.osd.mil

Dr. Dennis C. Dirkmaat, Chief Scientific Advisor to Somerset County Coroner's office in the flight 93 investigation; Director, Applied Forensic Sciences Department, Mercyhurst College, 501 E. 38th St. Erie, PA 16546 Email: dirkmaat@mercyhurst.edu

Disaster Mortuary Team Main office: 1-800-USA-NDMS, ext. 205
DMORT Region 3 office (includes Pennsylvania) 410-676-4600

Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team
January 2002 - Special Edition - Attack on America

The Pennsylvania Team

The response was augmented by personnel from several other DMORT regions, in addition to two new DMORT specialty teams. Local responders and members of the state funeral director association also provided assistance. The team arrived on September 13 at the Somerset County National Guard armory, where the morgue had been organized. After meeting with the local and federal authorities, the team went to work on setting up the morgue operation. The local jurisdiction did a superb job of providing basic equipment for the facility.

www.dmort.org...

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 08:40 PM by argentus

reply to post by ThroatYogurt

Thank you TY. Much to digest in your links, and I will do so. Somehow, this gives me a bit of comfort. It's no easy matter to match DNA samples, especially if conpromised and scattered. I think, if this is verifiable, lends credence to the idea that Flight 93 ended there, whether shot down or crashed, I don't know.

Cheers.

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 08:42 PM by Nonchalant

I suspect they were murdered by the government.

A regular plane crash leaves evidence. Large amounts of evidence.

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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 09:12 PM by GoldenFleece

Remember that famous "mushroom cloud" photo of the Shanksville crash site?

You'll never guess...

YouTube Link

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 09:18 PM by Nonchalant

reply to post by GoldenFleece

lol good post!

But then I guess common-sense says anything causing an 'impact' that small wouldnt create a mushroom cloud that large.

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 09:51 PM by thedman

I suspect they were murdered by the government.

A regular plane crash leaves evidence. Large amounts of evidence.

Evidence?

Bin contained aircraft debris - they filled 10 of these totaling 60 tons

Fuselage pieces

Small pieces debris

Human remains identification

The FBI has mandated DNA testing to confirm the identities of remains, a process just beginning that Miller said could take four to six months. But using mostly dental records, Miller and staff have identified remains of 12 passengers -- a number that the coroner said might grow with last weekend's recovery of additional remains.

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 10:04 PM by thedman

I mean there would have to be skeletal remains even in a plane crash wouldn't there? Damn that fire must've been HOT!

Are you asking this as a legimate question deserving an answer or
as some kind of insulting kook ?

I (as a member of fire department) walked a crash scene amd marked
with little flags all human remains for the coroner to recover

The recovered remains were identified by DNA or dental analysis
and turned over to the families for burial.

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 10:10 PM by Nonchalant

reply to post by thedman

What happened to the engines and landing gear?

Btw, the approx weight of a 757 is between 90 (assuming it was fueled) & 115 tons.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by Nonchalant]

reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 11:33 PM by cbass

Originally posted by thedman

Are you asking this as a legimate question deserving an answer or
as some kind of insulting kook ?

Are you asking this as a legimate question deserving an answer or
as some kind of insulting kook ?

AboveTopSecret.com is advertising supported.

reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 06:16 AM by thedman

What happened to the engines and landing gear?
Btw, the approx weight of a 757 is between 90 (assuming it was fueled) & 115 tons.

The EMPTY weight of a Boeing 757-200 is 127,500 lbs (57,800 kg) or
over 63 tons. The fuel load would be burned or dispersed on impact.

Operating empty with P&W engines 57,840kg (127,520lb), with RB211s 57,975kg (127,810lb). Basic max takeoff 99,790kg (220,000lb), medium range MTOW 108,860kg (240,000lb), extended range MTOW 115,665kg (255,000lb) or 115,895kg (255,550lb).

Jet engine being recovered

The FBI announced Monday that its investigation of the site where a hijacked jet slammed into a field here is complete and that 95 percent of the plane was recovered.

95% of an EMPTY 757-200 is about 60 tons or equivalent to amount of debris recovered.

Crowley said the biggest piece of the plane that was recovered was a 6-by-7-foot piece of the fuselage skin, including about four windows. The heaviest piece, Crowley said, was part of an engine fan, weighing about 1,000 pounds.

Took pains to recover all the debris

Over the weekend, about 300 volunteers combed a half-mile square around the crash site and found enough debris from the Boeing 757 to fill about one-third of a trash container.

Most of it was little more than thumbnail size -- "no bigger than a pop rivet holding two pieces of aluminum," Miller said yesterday -- that last week's rains washed from trees bordering the stretch of strip mine where the airliner crashed nose-first Sept. 11.

Any more dumb questions?

reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 10:29 AM by PplVSNWO

reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 04:22 PM by ThroatYogurt

reply to post by PplVSNWO

Were you aware of any other passenger planes that were tracked on radar until it's crash in the Shanksville area on 9-11-01?

Thank you.

:TY:

reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 06:22 PM by thedman

I have one, how does 95% of an entire airplane fit into 1/3 of a trash container? Furthermore, how does 1/3 of trash container filled with mostly aluminum scraps come to about 60 tons?
Out of 60 tons of debris, not one peice had a serial number to verify it was from the plane aleged to have crashed?
[/quot]

Had you bothered to read the earlier post would have seen debris
recovered from crash site filled 10 large bins like this

The 5 gal buckets were used by searchers as they scoured the scene
to recover all the debris they could.