how comes theres never any proof!, page 4
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reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 11:29 AM by Xtraeme
reply to post by skepticsnake (the OP)



Here's your "proof" ...

During the 1942 Battle of Los Angeles the military instituted a mandatory black out of the entire city of LA & fired 1400+ Anti-Aircraft rounds at a single, quoting the military, "unidentified aircraft." This lasted for more than an hour. Despite numerous confirmed hits the craft remained airborne and eventually flew off without ever being identified. (Read the 1942 LA times article).

In 1948 green fireballs were seen over the south-western skies of the US near nuclear weapons research sites. Famous meteoriticist Dr. Lincoln La Paz declared they weren't normal meteors. In 1949 the USAF started Project Twinkle under the direction of Dr. Anythony Mirachi.

The study concluded in a now declassified report that cinetheodolites had tracked 4 objects traveling at an "altitude of ~150K ft" (~28.5 miles!), were "30 ft. in diameter", & traveling at an "undeterminable, yet high speed." Mirachi went on to later criticize a Time magazine article that claimed there was no proof to support the existence of UFOs.

Mirachi wrote, "There was too much evidence in favor of saucers to say they could have all been balloons. 'I was conducting the main investigation. The government had to depend on me or my branch for information.' He said he didn't see how the Navy could say there had been no concrete evidence of the phenomena." (see here for more details)

Also in 1948 Dr. J. Allen Hynek, a self-proclaimed skeptic, joined Project Blue Book as a scientific adviser. By 1969 when Blue Book was shutdown Hynek did an about face. He wrote several books, particularly, "The Hynek UFO Report" which repeatedly stated that the attitude of Blue Book was, "it can't be therefore it isn't."

He also gave an interview, available on YouTube, where he said, "I was there at Blue Book and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, don't rock the boat, & I saw it [with] my own eyes. ... The cases that were very difficult to explain they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from that." He later went on to found the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS).

July 13 - 29th of 1952, over the skies of Washington DC, numerous UFOs were seen by observers on the ground, in the air, & tracked on radar. The situation escalated & General Samford, the Director of Intelligence of the USAF, held an emergency press conference. When asked by a reporters what people were seeing he suggested the lights on the ground may have looked like they were in the air because inversions act like an "air lens" & bend light rays. He added that something similar could have "tricked" radar in to thinking it was tracking aerial targets. (ufologie.net...)

In 1969 an Air Force scientific report titled "Quantitative Aspects of Mirages" (Menkello, F.G. Report No. 6112, USAF, Environmental Technical Applications Center) made it clear inversion strong enough to create the visual effect described during the 1952 press-conference could not exist in earth's atmosphere.

1956 at Bentwater/Lakenheath an object was sighted by several military officers on the ground while simultaneously tracked on radar at 2 different stations. The object moved at ~4000 mph and was monitored for several hours during which two planes were scrambled.

When the 1st DeHavilland Venom locked on to the object the UFO shot to the rear of the plane. The pilot tried evasive maneuvers, couldn't break free & eventually had to return to base to refuel.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by Xtraeme]


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 11:40 AM by Xtraeme
Continuation of previous post



The 2nd plane encountered mechanical difficulties as it flew within range of the object. The US sponsored Condon Report had this to say, "In conclusion, although conventional or natural explanations certainly cannot be ruled out, the probability of such seems low in this case and the probability that at least one genuine UFO was involved appears fairly high."

Astronaut Gordon Cooper claimed he saw his 1st UFO while flying over W. Germany in 1952. During 1957 while filming at Edwards AFB he stated he saw a UFO land in the CA flats and that the film was confiscated by the military. It's hard to imagine what Cooper would hope to gain from such a story. If you listen to his tone in this interview. I think you'll agree when I say he doesn't sound particularly excitable.

On 1986 flight JAL-1628 there were 3 air-visuals of a UFO the size of an aircraft carrier, 1 air & 2 ground radar confs. This lasted for 30 minutes. Also the FAA chief John Callahan admitted he gave the flight data to Reagan's scientific staff & said afterwards he was sworn to secrecy by the CIA.

Astronaut Buzz Aldrin on 11/24/2007 made an appearance on Larry King Live (youtube vid) and said that as the panels were floating away from Apollo 11 that he, Armstrong, and Collins tracked a point of light in space, that wasn't a star, that was moving and changing directions.

In 1952 naval photographer, Delbert Newhouse, video-taped a flotilla of UFOs while with his wife & 2 small children. He recorded several minutes worth of color video footage. When handed to the USAF it was instantly classified Top Secret. The 1st analysis concluded they were not balloons, aircraft, & unlikely to be birds.

The 2nd analysis by USN Photo Interpretation Lab at Navy's Anacostia facilities was the culmination of a ~1000 man hours of work. There was almost complete consensus it couldn't be birds because there was no fluttering. The P.I.L representative suggested they weren't birds, balloons, aircraft, were "not reflections because there was no blinking while passing through 60 degrees of arc" & were, therefore, "self-luminous."

The third group to analyze the film led by the CIA, the Robertson panel, conceded to Dr. Thornton Page's analysis. His argument was that the images on the film looked similar to seagulls he had seen near his home. This simple ten-second analysis became the official explanation.

In 1969 Page lamented the "excessive levity" he brought to the Panel's proceeding and how he later thought the UFO subject deserved serious scrutiny.

So in conclusion these accounts demonstrate:
  1. that there is something unidentified in our airspace. Project Twinkle definitively proves this.
  2. it's likely more than just a simple aerial/weather phenomena. The 1956 Bentwater sighting, the 1976 Iranian F16 encounter, & the 1942 Battle of Los Angeles strongly suggest intelligence.

    And,
  3. in recent years we're seeing many instances where people who have worked in high-ranking positions in the government are whistle-blowing (FAA Chief Callahan, Astronaut Cooper, Blue Book Dir. Ruppelt, Astronaut Aldrin, Blue Book Scientific adviser Hynek, Lt. Col. Daniel Mcgovern, Gov. Fife Symington, Vice-Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, etc) & they're largely being ignored even though many of them have publicly stated they're willing to testify under oath before congress.


[edit on 25-7-2008 by Xtraeme]



reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 11:51 AM by scowl
Originally posted by sweet_lu
You mean to tell me its hard for you to believe that these grays cannot shift shapes or have the technology to hide their true identities when they travel here probably through time in round spacecraft with unlimited energy, that can defy most of our laws of physics, stop in mid air, and disappear into thin air right in front of our eyes?

I believe that if any beings this capable truly existed, they would not waste their time on our planet. They would not appear in random people's bedrooms at night to abduct them. They would not be flying around pointlessly in our skies at night putting on light shows that no one manages to get a picture of. Surely there are more interesting things to do in the universe than mess around with us.

If they could do these things, we wouldn't know they were here and UFOlogy would not exist. If you're going to use circular logic to propose a theory, you have to close the circle.

If they do exist, the alleged sightings and alleged abductions and all the other reports show that they're not all-powerful. For some reason they can't help but attract attention in the most obvious ways: bright colorful lights (rarely in the same configuration twice) in the night skies over populated areas. So much for our all-powerful creatures. Even we can fly our planes at night without being seen.

Hey, maybe they enjoy practical jokes. If I had these abilities, I would be freaking out humanity big time!


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 12:01 PM by sos37
reply to post by Xtraeme



Very good examples of the grains of gold I was referring to, Xtraeme!


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 01:13 PM by Xtraeme
continuation of previous post



If this isn't enough to convince you something's happening in our skies research Big Sur (1964/09/16), the Malmstrom AFB Missle/UFO incident (1967/03/16), Iranian F-4 encounter (1976/09/19), 1909 plane stands still for 15 minutes in MA (1909/12/24), Denison daylight Texas sighting (1878/01), Discovery Mission 29 (1989/03/13-14) and I have plenty more if you're interested.


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 01:37 PM by kidflash2008
reply to post by Xtraeme



There is also the Flatwoods incident in Braxton County West Virginia. There was physical evidence where the boys and Mrs May became physical ill and an oily like substance found on their clothes and where the craft landed. Skeptics claimed it was a meteor, but the "meteor" moved to another spot and also forgot to leave a crater.
There has been much physical evidence left by landing of objects, too.


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 03:18 PM by Lethil
Originally posted by DJMessiah
Originally posted by skepticsnake
But the thing is, with so many of these so called encounters, why has there never been just ONE single clear close up photo..


Because not everyone has access to a professional camera. If you noticed something that gave you the shock of your life, and you ran to grab your normal camera, would you be able to set up a pod to hold the camera, run tests to see if the lighting is correct so you get the best lighting, and make sure that your camera has a lens that has the right amount of zoom?

No, you get what you can to take the picture. The people who encounter the presence of UFO's aren't professional photographers presence of UFOs aren't professional photographers, and don't have the right equipment that would give them the optimal resolution and clarity. It's your average Joe that be more likely to see one, and unless he plans to set up a photographic session before hand with a UFO, don't expect to get the best pictures all the time.


Yip...aliens dont like visiting photographers apparently... Ok really...seriously? Ufo's? yes lots and lots and lots of evidence....aliens? not a single shred...nothing! nadda! lets think of other things that have no evidence? the sun is marshmallow!...the sea was created when 3 angels cried after losing a 100 to 1 bet at the horse racing! ....etc etc...ok...really,people who actually 100% believe in aliens are about as rational as anyone who believes the above....
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