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Where did our existence come from ?!?!
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Either the universe has been here forever or it came from nothing. Both options are completely illogical and according to what we learn in school,
impossible. By learning that our existence is impossible, we learn that we do not exist. Some people like to say God created us, but then we still
have the same problem in regards to whether God has been here forever or came from nothing.
According to the math we learn in school, one over infinity is treated as zero because it is infinitely small. (1/infinity = 0) We are finite beings in an infinite universe. That means that we are infinitely insignificant, and therefore; do not exist.
If you really believe that we do exist, can you prove it? Since the universe of opinions and ideas is infinite, there are an infinite number of arguments that can be made to disprove our existence. Although you may assume that we exist, it is infinitely impossible to refute all arguments that say we don’t.
[edit on 4/20/2008 by billyjoinedat2k8]
According to the math we learn in school, one over infinity is treated as zero because it is infinitely small. (1/infinity = 0) We are finite beings in an infinite universe. That means that we are infinitely insignificant, and therefore; do not exist.
If you really believe that we do exist, can you prove it? Since the universe of opinions and ideas is infinite, there are an infinite number of arguments that can be made to disprove our existence. Although you may assume that we exist, it is infinitely impossible to refute all arguments that say we don’t.
[edit on 4/20/2008 by billyjoinedat2k8]
Math is just a language to describe our physical nature laws. You cant describe thoughts with math. Or imagination. Or anything that makes us more
than just machines.
We are not even acknowledging that there may be more to this world than the physical stuff.
So can we say with certainty if we exist or not? I think thats impossible with our current understanding.
[edit on 24-7-2008 by Copernicus]
We are not even acknowledging that there may be more to this world than the physical stuff.
So can we say with certainty if we exist or not? I think thats impossible with our current understanding.
[edit on 24-7-2008 by Copernicus]
Originally posted by Copernicus
Math is just a language to describe our physical nature laws. You cant describe thoughts with math. Or imagination. Or anything that makes us more than just machines.
We are not even acknowledging that there may be more to this world than the physical stuff.
So can we say with certainty if we exist or not? I think thats impossible with our current understanding.
[edit on 24-7-2008 by Copernicus]
ye i know what you mean like we dont understand the universe enough to say whether something is real or not or whether something is there or isnt there
1/infinity doesn't equal 0, it approaches 0. Those are very different concepts. .00000000000000000000000000000000000001 is absurdly close to 0 but
it is still greater than 0 and still exists as a real number.
[edit on 24-7-2008 by Nessosin]
[edit on 24-7-2008 by Nessosin]
From my point of view, just sitting here typing this post demonstrates that we exist. Granted, it is certainly not mathematical proof, but it does
demonstrate that we are here, in some form.
Could the entire universe, us included, be some sort of simulation running in a massively powerful computer of some sort? I'm sure it could. I don't see any way to prove or disprove that, especially considering our (limited) current understanding of the nature of reality. However, in such a scenario, we still exist, just in a different paradigm.
Could the entire universe, us included, be some sort of simulation running in a massively powerful computer of some sort? I'm sure it could. I don't see any way to prove or disprove that, especially considering our (limited) current understanding of the nature of reality. However, in such a scenario, we still exist, just in a different paradigm.
reply to post by Masterson
well maybe we do exist maybe we dont maybe life is just an illusion maybe not but maybe life isnt what we actually think it is.
think outside the box.
well maybe we do exist maybe we dont maybe life is just an illusion maybe not but maybe life isnt what we actually think it is.
think outside the box.
Originally posted by billyjoinedat2k8
By learning that our existence is impossible, we learn that we do not exist.
Or we learn that there is no such thing as impossible.
reply to post by Anti-Tyrant
im not saying it is impossible we learn that its impossible i
according to what we learn in school, impossible.
actually dont believe anything is impossible if im honest
im not saying it is impossible we learn that its impossible i
according to what we learn in school, impossible.
actually dont believe anything is impossible if im honest
Stop thinking of time as moving in a straight line from the past through the present and into the future. Try thinking of time as a kind of spongy
quality spacetime has, or something like the surface of a boiling pot of water. It doesn't always move in the same direction, bits of it pop out and
drop back in, and so on.
Once you free your mind of that old, inaccurate concept, then you can see that energy, and even matter, has the ability to move in numerous spatial and temporal dimensions, and does so all the time.
That means there's a real good possibility that we (or at least some kind of living thing with enough consciousness to collapse a quantum wave function by observing it) "came from" the future. Or the present, however you want to look at it.
It's not a very Christian concept, but there really is no Alpha or Omega, no beginning or end. Reality is just a big, bubbling pot of alphabet soup.
Once you free your mind of that old, inaccurate concept, then you can see that energy, and even matter, has the ability to move in numerous spatial and temporal dimensions, and does so all the time.
That means there's a real good possibility that we (or at least some kind of living thing with enough consciousness to collapse a quantum wave function by observing it) "came from" the future. Or the present, however you want to look at it.
It's not a very Christian concept, but there really is no Alpha or Omega, no beginning or end. Reality is just a big, bubbling pot of alphabet soup.
I agree completely with that. It is very possible that the nature of our existence is different, perhaps strikingly so, from what we currently
perceive it to be.
However, I still contend that we "exist" in some form.
Regarding the subject question of this topic, this is nearly impossible to definitively answer without knowing the true nature of our existence. It is possible that we came from an evolutionary process that took billions of years. It is possible that we are "digital entities", existing in a computer as I have previously mentioned. It is possible that we exist in the mind of someone or something, perhaps, but not necessarily, the one some call God. There are many other possibilities.
However, in the sense that we perceive a reality, I believe that we exist. This is not dependent on whether "our" (and by "our", I am referring to the mainstream view) perception of that reality is correct. In fact, I think it is very likely that "our" current understanding of reality is incorrect. It is perhaps markedly incorrect.
However, this leads one to the line of questioning such as "okay, if we came from the big bang, what created that? okay, so what created that which created the big bang?", etc. Talk about infinity.
However, I still contend that we "exist" in some form.
Regarding the subject question of this topic, this is nearly impossible to definitively answer without knowing the true nature of our existence. It is possible that we came from an evolutionary process that took billions of years. It is possible that we are "digital entities", existing in a computer as I have previously mentioned. It is possible that we exist in the mind of someone or something, perhaps, but not necessarily, the one some call God. There are many other possibilities.
However, in the sense that we perceive a reality, I believe that we exist. This is not dependent on whether "our" (and by "our", I am referring to the mainstream view) perception of that reality is correct. In fact, I think it is very likely that "our" current understanding of reality is incorrect. It is perhaps markedly incorrect.
However, this leads one to the line of questioning such as "okay, if we came from the big bang, what created that? okay, so what created that which created the big bang?", etc. Talk about infinity.
reply to post by Nohup
Now this is an interesting concept, Nohup. In this scenario, even though we may have "come from" the future, would we still perceive our own individual, "local" if you will, pasts?
Now this is an interesting concept, Nohup. In this scenario, even though we may have "come from" the future, would we still perceive our own individual, "local" if you will, pasts?
Originally posted by Masterson[/i
However, I still contend that we "exist" in some form.
Regarding the subject question of this topic, this is nearly impossible to definitively answer without knowing the true nature of our existence. It is possible that we came from an evolutionary process that took billions of years. It is possible that we are "digital entities", existing in a computer as I have previously mentioned. It is possible that we exist in the mind of someone or something, perhaps, but not necessarily, the one some call God. There are many other possibilities.
However, in the sense that we perceive a reality, I believe that we exist. This is not dependent on whether "our" (and by "our", I am referring to the mainstream view) perception of that reality is correct. In fact, I think it is very likely that "our" current understanding of reality is incorrect. It is perhaps markedly incorrect.
well can i ask you how do u know for a fact that we are here living and breathing and please dont say you know that because your there typing that youre there when we dream we think thats real in the dream world so can you say 100% that you are alive because we dont understand enough of the universe to say for definite of something.
Originally posted by Masterson
Now this is an interesting concept, Nohup. In this scenario, even though we may have "come from" the future, would we still perceive our own individual, "local" if you will, pasts?
Our physical senses and memories have evolved to only see and experience things so they appear to be moving along a line through time. We'd get confused if we became aware of all the local interdimensional looping that goes on. Also, we all only have one point-of-view, which separates out a reality from all the other virtual possibilities. I personally can't imagine what it would be like to have two points-of-view.
So, no, I don't think it's possible. But then again, it might go some way toward explaining some psychic phenomena. Perhaps visualization and imagination are able to accomplish some of that. Hey, even Einstein said imagination was more important than knowledge.
[edit on 24-7-2008 by Nohup]
well can i ask you how do u know for a fact that we are here living and breathing and please dont say you know that because your there typing that youre there when we dream we think thats real in the dream world so can you say 100% that you are alive because we dont understand enough of the universe to say for definite of something.
Well, look at it this way. What's the difference?
If I hit my thumb with a hammer, does it really matter if it's all just an illusion? It really hurts! If you can't tell the difference between an illusion and reality, then there's really no practical difference. If you see bugs crawling on your skin and they make you jump off a building, does it really matter to you if they're real or not? You'd be just as dead either way.
reply to post by billyjoinedat2k8
No, I cannot say that we are "alive" as it is commonly defined. I thought we were talking about existence, not life. It is possible we are just dreams, in someones mind. However, we do "exist" in their mind. To me there is a difference between being alive and existing.
No, I cannot say that we are "alive" as it is commonly defined. I thought we were talking about existence, not life. It is possible we are just dreams, in someones mind. However, we do "exist" in their mind. To me there is a difference between being alive and existing.
Originally posted by Nessosin
1/infinity doesn't equal 0, it approaches 0. Those are very different concepts. .00000000000000000000000000000000000001 is absurdly close to 0 but it is still greater than 0 and still exists as a real number.
[edit on 24-7-2008 by Nessosin]
i said its treated as zero
According to the math we learn in school, one over infinity is treated as zero because it is infinitely small. (1/infinity = 0) We are finite beings in an infinite universe. That means that we are infinitely insignificant, and therefore; do not exist.
[edit on 4/20/2008 by billyjoinedat2k8]
Originally posted by billyjoinedat2k8
Originally posted by Nessosin
1/infinity doesn't equal 0, it approaches 0. Those are very different concepts. .00000000000000000000000000000000000001 is absurdly close to 0 but it is still greater than 0 and still exists as a real number.
[edit on 24-7-2008 by Nessosin]
i said its treated as zero
According to the math we learn in school, one over infinity is treated as zero because it is infinitely small. (1/infinity = 0) We are finite beings in an infinite universe. That means that we are infinitely insignificant, and therefore; do not exist.
[edit on 4/20/2008 by billyjoinedat2k8]
yes but as long as you're claiming that we don't exist I'm going to get picky.
Anyway, treating 1/infinity as equaling 0 still does not prove we don't exist, as 0 still exists. Now if you were to replace infinity with 0, then we would have another story. But as it stands, 1/infinity exists perfectly fine.
well I have been asked this question and I think this correctly states the facts.. forgive me if I missed something.
believe it or not - I dont care
you are made of trillions of self contained "You's"
every cell in you body has every function that every other cell has
in other words - trillions of you's
these trillions of cells for a compound creature with specialized talents - these talents dictate a creatures function in the larger scheme of things.
all animals of higher evolution use this form to exploit their unque talent for survival. you can not expect a cat to act or be like a dog.
each has a function that exploits in order to live or survive - each has a flaw that allows another creature to exploit for its survival all the way up to You and Me - Humaniods ...
what seperates us from our ancestors the Aquatic Ape (?) is two elements that are encoded into our DNA, these two elements did not originate from this planet. so, you can state that we are in a zoo of sorts for ET's enjoyment if you like - we are a science experiment.
any questions - Prey through prayer - you can talk with our creator you have a special gland called the pinal gland... So, GOD must be an alien...
and do you know what that means: ? No, well
in 1947 we figured that out -- and since then we have had numerous visitors to the ZOO... this is a Prison - humans can not escape --
without Alien assistance to get through the Van Allen Radiation belts...
human life would require a shield of Lead almost 5 feet thick... so the moon shot was a hoax.
[edit on 24-7-2008 by BornPatriot]
believe it or not - I dont care
you are made of trillions of self contained "You's"
every cell in you body has every function that every other cell has
in other words - trillions of you's
these trillions of cells for a compound creature with specialized talents - these talents dictate a creatures function in the larger scheme of things.
all animals of higher evolution use this form to exploit their unque talent for survival. you can not expect a cat to act or be like a dog.
each has a function that exploits in order to live or survive - each has a flaw that allows another creature to exploit for its survival all the way up to You and Me - Humaniods ...
what seperates us from our ancestors the Aquatic Ape (?) is two elements that are encoded into our DNA, these two elements did not originate from this planet. so, you can state that we are in a zoo of sorts for ET's enjoyment if you like - we are a science experiment.
any questions - Prey through prayer - you can talk with our creator you have a special gland called the pinal gland... So, GOD must be an alien...
and do you know what that means: ? No, well
in 1947 we figured that out -- and since then we have had numerous visitors to the ZOO... this is a Prison - humans can not escape --
without Alien assistance to get through the Van Allen Radiation belts...
human life would require a shield of Lead almost 5 feet thick... so the moon shot was a hoax.
[edit on 24-7-2008 by BornPatriot]
reply to post by billyjoinedat2k8
See the problem is with human beings, we see things in a linear fashion, logically to us everything has to have a start, a middle and an end.
As someone has mentioned, if you start to realise that the theories governing the universe actually state and talk about space-time then you'll understand the concept a lot greater.
Good post, I don't have time now to write the rest of what I was going to say but I'll come back later. Star from me!
See the problem is with human beings, we see things in a linear fashion, logically to us everything has to have a start, a middle and an end.
As someone has mentioned, if you start to realise that the theories governing the universe actually state and talk about space-time then you'll understand the concept a lot greater.
Good post, I don't have time now to write the rest of what I was going to say but I'll come back later. Star from me!
I know what you mean. many people dont like to think it. But where is the ultimate begining, everything that lead up to the big bang?. where did all
the matter come from?
We just popped out of nowhere? how did it come to be? from the ultimate beggining of history? there logically has to be a beginning where there was nothing, but then where did it all come from? how did it start?.
Did the nothengness, just go bang! this dont make sense there has to be something here... I can go round in circle like this in my mind and it never adds up. there is no answer noone knows, i dont think anyone on our planet or elsewher will ever know. That is your burden of having advanced thought.
I can imaginge the first AI able to fully emulate the human thought scructure, to ponder this and just get stuck in a loop. Or explode lol
[edit on 29-7-2008 by monkeybus]
We just popped out of nowhere? how did it come to be? from the ultimate beggining of history? there logically has to be a beginning where there was nothing, but then where did it all come from? how did it start?.
Did the nothengness, just go bang! this dont make sense there has to be something here... I can go round in circle like this in my mind and it never adds up. there is no answer noone knows, i dont think anyone on our planet or elsewher will ever know. That is your burden of having advanced thought.
I can imaginge the first AI able to fully emulate the human thought scructure, to ponder this and just get stuck in a loop. Or explode lol
[edit on 29-7-2008 by monkeybus]
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