Stop Raising The Minimum Wage & Stop Whining

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posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by Solarskye
 


Lord Almighty! I have been over this one in my head all day (I have a hard time letting go of issues that I don't understand). I have been looking at websites to explain how all this works from the inside out and the outside in. I have had a business owner friend give me his view..

It wasn't until I was posting this that it really hit me that all this talk about the middle class being erased would and could be accomplished. Here is it... right in front of our faces. I am hardcore back to my original stance, but now I fully understand why.

Work for your money. Don't expect it to be handed to you. The more prices go up, the rich will get richer, the poor will get more poor, and those of us who were just working for a decent life are gonna be dragged down in the process.




posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by DINSTAAR
 


Out sourcing has benefited our economy and theirs as well. Would you rather the company that outsourced go bankrupt or move to Mexico?


Well thats just it some of these companys wouldnt go bankrupt they are just penny pinchers.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by DINSTAAR
At some point there was a factory of workers that built robots, only to lose their jobs to those very robots.


Now that had to really suck!! But what do you do? Cry about it or go and get another job.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by Solarskye
 


You go get another job but the bills dont wait on that.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by ncuncfan2006
reply to post by Solarskye
 


You go get another job but the bills dont wait on that.


And that right there is the problem. Instead of figuring out how to better your situation, you use childish mentality tactics. I have seen a lot of childish behavior on this board, but this one takes the cake for me.

"you go get another job"...... that is what you have to say?



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:16 PM
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Out sourcing has benefited our economy and theirs as well. Would you rather the company that outsourced go bankrupt or move to Mexico? Either way jobs are lost, but with one way we can at least benefit other nations as well as ourselves. Lets try to not be spiteful and say "if we can't have these jobs, no one can".

Thats not the point the point is someone gave 20-30 years of loyal service to have the rug pulled out form under them because a company is greeedy and wants to save a little money instead of cutting costs elsewhere.


You say your in the airforce? How would you like to get in a accident lose your legs and have them tell you served your purpose your useless now.

Youll get nothing from us now be on your way.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


No im saying i have sympathy for people who give loyal service and hard work to be left in the cold cause a company wants to save a few dollars. I Just recently saw this happen to a few people i know. It takes time to get a job and a few of them had to stay at friends house. Living pay check to pay check is a bitch thankfully you prob never had to do it.


I have a heart though unlike some people.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by ncuncfan2006
 


Why aren't those people who are working hard doing something beneficial like planning ahead? You dont even have to invest much every month, but its very easy to build a nice little nestegg for yourself with about an hours worth of research.

Obviously if they are such a "company man", they will most likely take part in an employee stock ownership program. If the business decides to outsource in order to cut costs, they will see a rise in profit, which will benefit said shareholders including the employee.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by xEphon
 


Why does someone with zero job skills "deserve" more than $5.85 per hour?


Because an hour of hard work shouldn't cost almost as much as a gallon of milk or gas. It has nothing to do with job skill when talking about a decent minimum wage. In 1949 the minimum wage was $0.75 an hour. That could buy you a gallon of gas AND a gallon of milk with a few cents left over for a 6 pack of soda.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:24 PM
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Actually it's a lot of factors involved in the minimum wage to be considered, small business owners do account for employing numbers of people but as a collective when all of the announcements of huge layoffs they usually are not small businesses, small businesses also unfortunately as a dirty little secret in some instances pay money under the table and do not always have a full payroll, I mean it goes on and on when the whole issue of minimum wage being raised comes up. The small business excuse gets thrown out there, it is almost like trickle down economics is supposed to really work when we know that big companies usually keep whatever profits they can instead of staff up.

There was a story I heard on public radio a few years ago concerning a single mother of 1 one child working 2 jobs, at minimum wage and with no car instead of being on welfare she chose to do this, but working both jobs just barely could make it, I think a lot of people making objections to minimum wage ought to trade in whatever they make and switch places with someone actually with not too many other choices to work whatever wage they can get.

I think it is a shame for the well off and educated to throw out objections to raising a wage that they really never had to earn except maybe during high school or for some part time in between work, for the most part harder labor intensive jobs are already paying above minimum wage to keep pace with the cost of living, the government has not kept up with the cost of living is what it boils down to plain and simple, and with inflation on the horizon costs for everything are going to go up even more, so lets find other wastes of money and costs being passed on to the taxpayer than trying to adjust living workable wages for people that actually do like to go out and work and earn a living than to stay at home and get public assistance and welfare.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by ncuncfan2006
 


You never answered my question:

Why dont you personally start a business and pay all of your employees at least triple the minimum wage while still managing to earn a nice profit?



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by ncuncfan2006
 


Hey, it happened to me at one point in my life and you know what I did instead of collecting unemployment and whining? I went and got another job. I had bills to pay and a lifestyle to maintain. I am not a heartless person as I may come across on some of these threads, but I know it can be done because I have done it myself. Now, because cost of living is going up, all those complaining will still be in the same predicament and I will have to figure out yet another source of income (which I will), but those who are complaining now will STILL be complaining.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by xEphon


Because an hour of hard work shouldn't cost almost as much as a gallon of milk or gas. It has nothing to do with job skill when talking about a decent minimum wage. In 1949 the minimum wage was $0.75 an hour. That could buy you a gallon of gas AND a gallon of milk with a few cents left over for a 6 pack of soda.


Then thank inflation, high oil prices, and the cost of business generally going up.

Hypothetical: We go to war with Iran and oil rockets up to $300 per barrel.

Should minimum wage be raised to 12 or 15 bucks an hour just so that employee can afford a gallon of gas?

[edit on 24-7-2008 by slackerwire]



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


So you have never complained about anything before? Nothing wrong with complaining. Its better to complain and get it off your chest.

Just because you can find another job and life goes on still doesnt mean its not a B*&TCH that it happend.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by ncuncfan2006
 


Ever happen to think if you spent a little less time complaining and a little more time adding to your marketable skills, you could make a better living?



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


The problem is that minimum wage sets slave labor standards. Instead of paying people what they are worth, which for the minimum wage would be far more than they get paid now, we set a standard and say "you must pay this" and the economy sets a cost of living such that those at that wage effectively become the slave labor class.

In absence of a minimum wage, service sector companies would be forced to compete for workers and workers would flock to whatever employer paid more, competition would cause wages to rise naturally. Currently, there is no competition for service workers because everyone is mandated to pay the same thing even though some workers deserve more, and some deserve less.

Raising the minimum wage CAUSES inflation. It should not only be stopped, it should be axed. Indexing it to inflation just raises the cost of living on everyone. It make people feel better, but it punishes everyone. Minimum wages are only effective in developing economies, where urbanization causes such competition for jobs that employers can get away with paying people low wages. Once an economy is mature, minimum wage should be dropped - IF we cared about the minimum wage earners.

The funny thing is that the minimum wage is not something economists disagree on. Sure, liberal think tanks and conservative think tanks get get their own economists to spin the issue, but when you look at the consensus among economists who are not in anyone's pocket is astonishingly clear for academia: minimum wage is bad, hurts the poor, and helps the rich. I have rarely ever seen such agreement in academia. And yet here we have all these people claiming they are trying to help the poor, pushing for a higher minimum wage.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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After a couple Sam Adams, I want to share my story. Don't worry, it's a happy one.

At 16yrs, I dropped out of high school. Not because I was doing poorly, but because I was bored. The curriculum was uninteresting, and since 6th grade or so, I had a nagging feeling that I was not learning anything useful. Reading level in 4th grade was post-college grad, math, comprehension, language grades were all 99th percentile on the standardized achievement tests. Put bluntly, school was boring. Not trying to be a braggart here, just explaining myself. There was nothing left to learn in school - there were opportunities for advancement, but living with a single mother making a deli clerk's salary, the means were not there to pursue any advanced learning.

So, I got a job flipping burgers. I had to, as I had racked up a $300 phone bill in mom's name talking to a girl that I met online - a service I paid for by being a house painter's assistant for $5/hr on weekends. After the bill was paid up - not too hard on the $5.25/hr I started off at, I found that I sort of *liked* flipping burgers. So I stuck with it for a bit, and got my first apartment at 17yrs old. The next year, I took a promotion. Fast forward to two years ago, and I'm still flipping burgers, but now I manage the place, and have just bought my first house - a nice little three family for $152,500. I did this on a burger flipper's salary, with my own credit, carefully built from the age of eighteen.

I rent the other two apartments to my mother and cousin, for WELL below market rates - enough to help cover the rising cost of property tax, water/sewer, etc. Oh, did I mention the seven year old daughter? I have one of those, too - she's the light of my life. Her mom and I split during the pregnancy, and I'm the legal guardian. Mom's time with my princess has dwindled from two overnights a week to nothing - haven't heard from her in a year. Prior to that, she was seeing her once a month or so for a couple years running. Thankfully, in my burger-flipping business, I met a lovely woman who has adopted the female parenting role in my household. We're engaged, and have been together nearly seven years now - wedding's slated for May of next year. She, by the by, also happens to manage a burger-flipping business. She also dropped out of high school when her mom abandoned her to move south - she was 16 at the time and had to make money.

So now we're taking in about $74k/yr between our two incomes and the meager rents on the two other units of our house. Got a few cars; the small SUV for the kid and the groceries, my beater pickup (gotta have something for all the Home Depot runs and the plowing!) and my car, which is a bit indulgent and was purchased at the age of nineteen. Yes, I've had it for seven years, and it's my baby; a nicely modified '95 Impala SS.


It's not a lot, but it's also not too bad for a couple drop-outs with limited-to-non-existent wealth growing up. We're looking at an investment property now, as a way of furthering ourselves and increasing our means. The eventual goal is to own enough good-quality rental properties to make a living maintaining them well and keeping the tenants happy. We'd like to use this income to buy a plot of land and a farmhouse, and eventually get back to the old ways of growing and raising our own food, relaxing, and dropping out of the loop a bit. Our first year of gardening has made us see that this is a realistic option, and something we both plan to enjoy.

In closing, please don't interpret this as a holier than thou post. This is meant to be motivational; you CAN crawl up to a good life on your own hard work. You do NOT need degrees to be happy (though I'd suggest them if it's feasible) - and YES, hard work DOES pay off, more often than not. With a plan, the desire to WORK for it, and some sweat, anyone can scratch their way out of the gutter. All is not lost, and there is hope.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. =)



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by phinubian
There was a story I heard on public radio a few years ago concerning a single mother of 1 one child working 2 jobs, at minimum wage and with no car instead of being on welfare she chose to do this, but working both jobs just barely could make it, I think a lot of people making objections to minimum wage ought to trade in whatever they make and switch places with someone actually with not too many other choices to work whatever wage they can get.


I am a single mother raising two young boys on my own and working two jobs. I was inventive and figured out ways to turn in my own profit rather than working for anyone in particular. These ways to make your own money (and decent money at that) are out there, but one has to use their brain for their own gain rather than complaining for other's gains.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by slackerwire
 


Slackwire I get it man i get it..

YOU have never once complained in your life.

You have never once had any kind of financial help in your life.

No one has ever cut you any breaks in life.


Your just 1 in a billion



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by ncuncfan2006
 


Naturally I have complained. I live in Vegas, 110 + degrees in summer sucks.

I have never had any financial help in my life. Left home when I was 16, supported myself, still managed to graduate high school, then I joined the Army. Got out, did some contracting to raise the capital needed to start my own business.

You avoided answering my question a few times now.

Why not start your own business and pay your employees triple the minimum wage and still manage to earn a profit?





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