Stop Raising The Minimum Wage & Stop Whining

reply to post by mybigunit


I see your point, I missed the black water in there. Agreed.

reply to post by slackerwire


You're not defending private corporations in the least, since I've continually referenced I wasn't talking the small business, but large businesses, the ones who pay C.E.O.'s six figures a year, and pay the peon at the bottom Minimum Wage, instead of a fair wage.

What does weight have to do with Minimum Wage? Don't try going for personal attacks, to make it look like a discussion.

I haven't lived at home since I was a teenager, nice try, again.

My finances are none of your business, and I make plenty more than Minimum Wage.

Try to stay on the topic of Minimum Wage at least, slackerwire, and don't go the cheap shots and insults. What I copied into here from the other thread I did was a reference to what the polticians make from warfare, while the little person gets crapped on.

If you're not defending politicians, I'll extend an apology, but the large corporations are the ones paying the lobbyists who then go to the politicians, who ask them for political favors to keep minimum wage at the low end of the spectrum. This has been proven time and again via anyone who knows how to read politics, newspapers, and Wall Street Journal.

Lobbying should be called what it is, for what it is, surrogate bribery, going through a middle-man, to pay off the crooks in offices with marble columns and teak doors.

Minimun Wage, is pathetic, whether you live on it, or slightly above it, unless your in the middle class to upper class, where the sky is clearer because the politicians can sit on their piles of cash and not pay the bottom totem-pole employees better, or even worse, outsourcing the work somewhere else through N.A.F.T.A., and paying even less than we make here.

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by mybigunit

 

If someone is so concerned with being able to provide for their family, dont you think they should have taken the initiative to get the skills needed to make more money?

The burden of providing for a family isnt on the business owner, it's on the individual employee. If the wages said employee makes aren't getting the job done, then its time for that employee to find a 2nd job.

Sure but as I pointed out earlier you can go to college and do everything you were supposed to do right and still make crap for money. A few examples. I am a high school drop out. I never went to college. Im completely self educated and started out working in a warehouse for $10 an hour. I worked my way up and caught some lucky breaks and met the right people who gave me the chances I needed to prove myself. Now I am where I am today. Most people dont get those chances which is what I was pointing out to bigmamma earlier. Some people go to college and get the big electrical engineering degrees to only be told we arent going to hire you we need people with experience. (BTW this happened to a friend of mine) So she applied at 12 different places and not one would giver her a job because she had no experience. Sometimes people do the right thing and still cant catch that break to get ahead in life thats a fact. I was fortunate.

2nd Job sure. That should be a very good option and you wont hear an argument from me. But that doesnt mean that we pay people crap money just because they have an option to work 2 jobs. On top of this if no one paid their people well how would I be in business. Whos going to buy $400 faucets when they cant feed their family. This is an issue we wont get solved tonight but it just comes down to small differences. We dont totally disagree like you may think.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


It ever occur to you that by raising minimum wage, the cost of business goes up, hence people are against it?

What about grocery stores? They already operate on a very thin profit margin, and if they are forced to pay their cart retrieval experts an extra 2 or 3 bucks an hour, where do you think that increase in operating costs will end up?

Hint: On the shoulders of the consumer.

Originally posted by Swingarm


This is the point exactly. You can point fingers all day long and make yourself feel like a success. This whole issue is quite simply a symptom of a broken system. It's people deserve better. You wonder why theres such a huge appetite for china's goods. USA was known in the past for quality goods, is it still that way? I'm Canadian so I can't comment first hand but it sure doesn't seem that way.

[edit on 30-7-2008 by Swingarm]

The USA has no production anymore. We are a consumer country not a producing country. Our GDP is based on how much we consume not how much we produce. Its quite pathetic. We have losses on trade every quarter. We owe 10 trillion in debt. We are a debtor nation not a creditor nation. So if are producing nothing and negative on trade how are we ever going to catch up? I see bad times coming ahead my friend and if something doesnt change this WHOLE conversation will be irrelevant for the dollar will be worthless.

reply to post by mybigunit


I dont think we are in complete disagreement at all, but in regards to your $400 faucets.

If the economy tanks, and sales slow down drastically, you can always drop down to selling the more affordable $50 faucets and make your money on volume due to an expanded marketbase.

I too have never stepped foot on a college campus, and in my small social circle, the most successful among us all avoided college. It's about being innovative, opportunistic, and willing to do whatever it takes to succeed because no one else will help you.

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

It ever occur to you that by raising minimum wage, the cost of business goes up, hence people are against it?

What about grocery stores? They already operate on a very thin profit margin, and if they are forced to pay their cart retrieval experts an extra 2 or 3 bucks an hour, where do you think that increase in operating costs will end up?

Hint: On the shoulders of the consumer.

The cost of business only goes up because the corporations want higher profits, and they blame the cost of higher wages on paying their employees better, while simultaneously telling the employees that they can't raise wages due to not wanting to gig the consumer. It's a fine balancing act of BS'ing both sides, just like politicians, management go hand in hand with them.

I'm happy you stuck to not going into personal attacks, and I even saw a post you did earlier today on another thread that actually made Me smile that it was something you and I see eye to eye on, slackerwire, I can't remember at the moment what it was on, but I think we have differing opinions due to semantics more so than actually disagreeing on the topic at hand.

I've worked for a bloated Administration, no not a political one, but a hospital, where they would rather slash employees jobs, instead of trying to find a more financially feasible option, as well as ignore the the reasoning of needing anti-terrorism barriers. Doctors and nurses get paid a lot more than Minimum Wage, so I'm following up on your comment earlier questioning about doctors and Tiger Woods. I think doctors get paid way too much, and their arrogant as Hell to boot, most of the ones I'd worked with at least, there were a few nice ones, but they wouldn't know what Minimum Wage meant to them after going through years of college, and then getting paid exhorbitant wages, they get hooked on it like a crack addict.

[edit on 30-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

It ever occur to you that by raising minimum wage, the cost of business goes up, hence people are against it?

What about grocery stores? They already operate on a very thin profit margin, and if they are forced to pay their cart retrieval experts an extra 2 or 3 bucks an hour, where do you think that increase in operating costs will end up?

Hint: On the shoulders of the consumer.

Nonsense Ill repeat this for the 50th time on this thread. Inflation always comes first minimum wage raising 2nd. Raising the minimum wage has never and I repeat has never caused inflationary issues. Its the government and the FED that takes care of that for us. Now if a store was to just wake up and raise all their people to $20 an hour sure it would. It would make all the prices go up. Wal Mart didnt become what they are today making 3% Ill tell you that. They made it on the backs of cheap labor both here and abroad.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


You seem to be forgetting that corporations have an obligation to their shareholders.

Sooner or later those shareholders are going to want some dividends coming their way, otherwise the option of investing in Corporation ABC doesnt really look all that great since their is no return on their investment.

[edit on 30-7-2008 by slackerwire]

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by mybigunit

 

I dont think we are in complete disagreement at all, but in regards to your $400 faucets.

If the economy tanks, and sales slow down drastically, you can always drop down to selling the more affordable $50 faucets and make your money on volume due to an expanded marketbase.

I too have never stepped foot on a college campus, and in my small social circle, the most successful among us all avoided college. It's about being innovative, opportunistic, and willing to do whatever it takes to succeed because no one else will help you.

$50 I cant do because big boxes like Home Depot and what not have the big names their cornered and there are to many of the "me too" China lines out there. Im stuck high end This is why I learned about finance and the monetary system because now that its slow I spend a little more time investing a guy has to do what I guy has to do when times are rough like you said.

reply to post by mybigunit


the dollar is worthless now. About the 2 jobs post, I saw a speech with Bush were he commending a woman for working 3 jobs. I think he said "now theres an American" I thought to myself now theres an asshole. People should only have to work 6 or 7 hours a day if the debt mechanism was removed. Add free energy to the equation which I believe exists and another hour or two could be removed and people would still be able to sustain themselves.

reply to post by mybigunit


Well since I know absolutely nothing about faucets, allow to me ask this:

Surely the big box stores cant sell each and every economy model faucet can they? Any lower end unique type faucets out there that you could be a distributor of?

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

You seem to be forgetting that corporations have an obligation to their shareholders.

Sooner or later those shareholders are going to want some dividends coming their way, otherwise the option of investing in Corporation ABC doesnt really look all that great since their is no return on their investment.

[edit on 30-7-2008 by slackerwire]

I think you missed the post where I stated I've bought stocks, so no I have not forgotten that. I own stocks in some very large corporations, so I know there's a answering to the shareholders, I am one.

I have retirement accounts as well, so it's not like I'm living in a shack. I put those dividends right back into buying more shares as well.

Are you having a discussion here about Minimum Wage, or trying to gather intelligence information? I know how to do that to you know.

Originally posted by Swingarm
reply to post by mybigunit

 

the dollar is worthless now. About the 2 jobs post, I saw a speech with Bush were he commending a woman for working 3 jobs. I think he said "now theres an American" I thought to myself now theres an asshole. People should only have to work 6 or 7 hours a day if the debt mechanism was removed. Add free energy to the equation which I believe exists and another hour or two could be removed and people would still be able to sustain themselves.

If our booms were based on actual production and not illusions she wouldnt have to work 3 jobs to survive. On top of that the fact that 80% of the money is sitting in the hands of the top 3%. So all of this money has to come from people working those kinds of hours. All of this illusion needs people like that to keep the money in their hands. That is how this system works. There is a video on youtube that is so damn good on this subject....its called Corrupt Banking Money as Debt its a 5 part series. It was the very first video I watched before I started really diving into economics. It sums it all up.

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Well since I know absolutely nothing about faucets, allow to me ask this:

Surely the big box stores cant sell each and every economy model faucet can they? Any lower end unique type faucets out there that you could be a distributor of?

Well thats where the Chinese "me too" lines I was telling you about. I could go that route but its cornered quite well. I guess the best way to put it is like Mercedes trying to go into the cheap car market. Some people have certain markets cornered. Just like when Home Depot tried to go high end and fell flat on their a$$. I have some chinese crap I imported and I now have it on ebay cause I cant get rid of it in my store or on my website.

reply to post by mybigunit


I've seen money as debt it's animated right ? Money masters is good also, I think that one came out in the mid nineties.

reply to post by Swingarm




Part 1 of 5....Life changing video for me.

reply to post by mybigunit


I believe it comes from a Canuck as well. It's not just back bacon and maple syrup that comes from Canada. Yes its excellent, did you watch Money Masters ?

See that's some of the problems that need fixed. This money debt scandal and other things. But just because the scheme is meant for us to go in debt doesn't mean you have to fall for it and go into debt. If all these problems were taken care of then America would be back and minimum wage could be raised. All in all it still hurts the guy making just above that wage and won't get a raise. We have the opportunity to pursue happiness, but nobody said it was going to be easy. And life isn't fair, and some people need to realize they have a choice. You don't have to "go with the flow." You can step outside the box. I suggest some people or actually all people to read ( The Choice ).

Choice! The key is Choice. You have options. You need not spend your life wallowing in failure, ignorance, grief, poverty, shame, and self-pity. But, hold on! If this is true then why have so many among us apparently elected to live in that manner? The answer is obvious. Those who live in unhappy failure have never exercised their options for a better way of life because they have never been aware that they had any Choices !

The Choice

“…our mind is the greatest creation on earth and it can generate the most sublime happiness for its owner—or it can destroy him. Yet although we have been given the secret of how to control it, for our happiness and benefit, we still function completely ignorant of its potential…”

Greatest Miracle In The World



[edit on 7/30/2008 by Solarskye]

y'know, it seems some of you bandy the 'sheeple' term around too much.

it deeply disturbs me that so many people cannot see why other people, strangers, are important and effect their lives in a very personal way.

and also, to the guy who said , and I'm paraphrasing, " minimum wage jobs / entry level positions aren't meant to 'live on' "...... So. poor people are subhuman? those starting out should live at home with mom until they are 35 and have worked their way up to a decent wage? people shouldn't have families or contribute to society until middle age? because if entry level jobs shouldn't provide a basic independent living, then that's what you're shooting for.

in our culture, there is no bigger insult than the ' 40 year old man living in his parents basement' line. I can't think of one that isn't a swear word anyway.

so someone making a minimum wage doesn't have the right to have an apartment , or eat something besides ramen noodles and gruel? that they haven't a right to ever own a car or get any medical services?

because not everyone has a family to stay with. some peoples families are overburdened anyway.

you would be creating a system with no ladder up beyond a certain point, meaning you'd have to be upper middle class at least to even try to succeed, because if you can't afford a house or a car or to make your own family, you will never be able to get on your feet.

what I mean is, if you can't take care of yourself with the most basic job, then you don't have the tools to get a better job.

another point: 2 or 3 jobs? in the small town communities that make up the majority of this nation, when do you work the other job or find the other job?

if you take the day off to go find another suplementary job, your boss will say that HIS company comes first and if you can't dedicate yourself to that business, he has no need for you, and you get fired, because I have seen that happen.

even jobs that pay $10-13 per hour don't care if you need time off for health or family emergency.

I saw a guy whose wife had a baby get penalized for leaving to see his newborn child, his first child, in fact.

I lost my job once for taking care of my mom, who had had a surgery that was pretty invasive and there was no one to be with her in case of emergency.

If I had stayed on the clock, my mom could've died from hemmoraging. but Emerson General Signal's profits came before my mom's life.

and if my mom had died because I finished my shift, then I probably would've went nuts and shot the place up or something, I don't know.

the point is, other people, especially poor people, effect your life.

people don't generally get robbed by rich people.

I've never heard of a Rich Mugger.

of course there are criminals who will always have those behaviours, but what I mean to say is that many many many people are simply driven to it by constant blows to their existence.

you see, you may impersonalize these people, or generalize them or stereotype them as lazy or unmotivated or just unlucky, but beyond your front door, there they are. and they are real people. they eat and breathe and care about their families, and know that other people have it so good they can't even imagine it, and that causes severe demoralization especially when the Upper Classes (or should I say Castes) insult and deride and relegate them to obscurity or subhumanity.

the Lower Castes don't want your stupid money. they only need money to support their families and try to give their kids a decent life.

and eating gruel and working 18 hours a day doesn't qualify as a good life.

matter of fact, when people work those intense hours, they are criticized for not taking care of their children, who become criminals so they don't have to work like their parents, they see the drug dealers and pimps and see that they have free time and easy money, and they see their parents working themselves to death with no time for them, for little to nothing.

and when a school fails them, then that school isn't fixed, it's shut down.

America isn't as bright and full of hope as you think.

I just can't beleive people would try to say that you just have to work harder and stop complaining and that it's all your fault that your life is like that because you didn't work hard enough, and that just working harder will make it all better, SOMEDAY.

for some people, that someday is way too far away, or will never come.

it sickens me, in a profound way, that people have such enmity for other people.

I don't see anyone saying they would like to pitch in and educate these people, or mentor them, or offer them a better job or job training.

all I see is 'it's not my problem, it doesn't effect me. those people aren't even real people, if anything, they just steal from me and make my life worse'.

thinking in this way is what sparked the Holocaust.

we're americans. we're better than this.

we all use publicly funded resources. our taxes are paid for a reason.

all those Cops and Roads and even Hospitals and schools and prisons and so forth are payed for by ALL OF US. they are public services.

I don't even know how to explain it.